Coach Discussion: Coaching Thread

[DRW204]

A reminder, Trotz had a grand total of 2 playoff series wins in the first 15 years of his NHL career. Then he was let go by the Preds. Since then, the Preds have sunk, and Trotz has become a lauded coach.

A reminder, expansion Predators were one of the worst teams on paper i ever seen

really we are going back nearly 25 years to disparage Trotz? should we look at maurice's record 25 years ago too? like really, neither have significant relevance on today

What has trotz done the last 10 years? just a reminder please? and compare it to maurice.

sorry if i misinterpreted this post but have no idea what relevance trotz from expansion nsh days has anything to do w/ what he's done in recent years (similar to maurice and early Hartford, CAR and TOR really)

Just a reminder we could have signed Trotz but we didn't sign the best coach available after Noel was relieved and signed Pomo because they had a traffic 10 -12 game stretch then played 500.

Trotz has the islanders as one of the best teams in the entire league since he's been there.

their talent is no where comparable to ours. he's elevating that team and i don't think the same can be said for maurice.

 

[Section 325]

Trotz has the islanders as one of the best teams in the entire league since he's been there.

their talent is no where comparable to ours. he's elevating that team and i don't think the same can be said for maurice.

This is exactly the problem I've had with Maurice for the last few seasons. The refrain is constantly "we're focusing on team defence" but the defence isn't good and is basically completely dependent on Hellebuyck to steal games from what I see.

The Lightning have offensive depth and use it to their advantage every damn game. There have been a ton games where our offence looks completely flat and, arguably, uninterested. I think that is on Maurice to have that happen with the amount of talent our team has.

We are dependent on our talent to steal games, but the structure just isn't there to make them shine every game and in game adjustments aren't made when what we're doing isn't working. I thought this was very evident during the Vegas series.

It's time for a change.

(Also HOW does Charlie Huddy still have a job?)

 

[DRW204]

This is exactly the problem I've had with Maurice for the last few seasons. The refrain is constantly "we're focusing on team defence" but the defence isn't good and is basically completely dependent on Hellebuyck to steal games from what I see.

The Lightning have offensive depth and use it to their advantage every damn game. There have been a ton games where our offence looks completely flat and, arguably, uninterested. I think that is on Maurice to have that happen with the amount of talent our team has.

We are dependent on our talent to steal games, but the structure just isn't there to make them shine every game and in game adjustments aren't made when what we're doing isn't working. I thought this was very evident during the Vegas series.

It's time for a change.

(Also HOW does Charlie Huddy still have a job?)

on paper this team, over the years this team has had what, a top 5-10 fwd group, and a top 1-5 (at worst?) goalie with V likely 3 vezina finalist nominations, and likely 2 wins in 4 years. Yes the (team) defense needs work, but is maurice doing it any favors? Top pair Beau? Top pair Poolman? Forbort? CSW? Chevy shares some blame to ofc,. But he also deserves a lion-share of the credit for what he have in amassing this fwd group and helle+bro.

compared to the islanders. id take the Jets G and Fwd personnel over them, quite easily. And the NYI D-Group over the Jets. But imo, the gap b/w the FWDs is larger than the gap in the D-Personnel. Varly is great too, probably top 5-10, Helle's accolades speak for himself in his league-wide rating.

 

[Whileee]

A reminder, expansion Predators were one of the worst teams on paper i ever seen

really we are going back nearly 25 years to disparage Trotz? should we look at maurice's record 25 years ago too? like really, neither have significant relevance on today

What has trotz done the last 10 years? just a reminder please? and compare it to maurice.

sorry if i misinterpreted this post but have no idea what relevance trotz from expansion nsh days has anything to do w/ what he's done in recent years (similar to maurice and early Hartford, CAR and TOR really)



Trotz has the islanders as one of the best teams in the entire league since he's been there.

their talent is no where comparable to ours. he's elevating that team and i don't think the same can be said for maurice.

Some seem to think that the Jets should have hired Trotz after he left the Preds in 2014. Look back at his 15 year record with the Preds and let me know what you see in his record that would indicate that he was a top coach.

Maurice took the Canes to the Finals and then to Round 3 in 8 years.

Making excuses for Trotz based on the quality of his roster isn't really consistent with the tendency to ignore all of the terrible teams (and especially goalies) that Maurice coached over his career (pre-Jets).

My point is that it's hard to really get a handle on the independent impact of a coach in relation to the roster.

Trotz' record was very mediocre with poor rosters. His record has been better with top-end rosters. No surprises there. Still, I'd bet this Board would have been yelling for Trotz to be fired after 3 straight losses in Round 2 with the Caps.

 

[WaveRaven]

Barry Trotz at the time he was fired, had 2 playoff series wins in 15 seasons coaching the Nashville Predators.

Yes and pomo was a tv analyst. Couldn't find work.

I could have worded it better. I meant that they never looked for the best coach available at all never interviewed a single other coach. I think Trotz was the best available.

 

[DRW204]

how many preds teams had a

top 5-10 fwd group
and top 1-3 goalie

like the Jets since 2017. they basically had the same roster in 2016 too.

if trotz had PO success similar to mauirce with the jets, ppl would be begging for a change.

how many coach's - other than cooper - has won after 8 years with a team?

Some seem to think that the Jets should have hired Trotz after he left the Preds in 2014. Look back at his 15 year record with the Preds and let me know what you see in his record that would indicate that he was a top coach.

Maurice took the Canes to the Finals and then to Round 3 in 8 years.

Making excuses for Trotz based on the quality of his roster isn't really consistent with the tendency to ignore all of the terrible teams (and especially goalies) that Maurice coached over his career (pre-Jets).

My point is that it's hard to really get a handle on the independent impact of a coach in relation to the roster.

Trotz' record was very mediocre with poor rosters. His record has been better with top-end rosters. No surprises there. Still, I'd bet this Board would have been yelling for Trotz to be fired after 3 straight losses in Round 2 with the Caps.

 

[Jet]

You may be an expert, Maurice isnt. And that wasnt a hammer, Scheif missed a few shifts.

I also have personnel and mgmt responsibities and experience, and have received associated leadership awards from the people under my mgmt. At one time, I had a team of 400 people under me.

But you need almost no experience in these matters to know that if you reward and praise someone for an action for a long time, punishing them once for that same action brings no benefit. It more likely brings unforeseen issues. Neither your expert level expertise nor my leadership track record even matter here. This is kindergarten level stuff or not far off from that.

Alright you got it man.

 

[tbcwpg]

A reminder, expansion Predators were one of the worst teams on paper i ever seen

really we are going back nearly 25 years to disparage Trotz? should we look at maurice's record 25 years ago too? like really, neither have significant relevance on today

What has trotz done the last 10 years? just a reminder please? and compare it to maurice.

sorry if i misinterpreted this post but have no idea what relevance trotz from expansion nsh days has anything to do w/ what he's done in recent years (similar to maurice and early Hartford, CAR and TOR really)

The poster I was responding to said that Trotz was the "best available coach" at the time that Maurice was hired. I was pointing out that, at that time, his playoff record was pretty poor. We harp on Maurice for 2 playoff wins in 9+ seasons, Trotz hat 2 in 14 years, objectively worse than Maurice.

The point is not to compare Maurice and Trotz as coaches, it's to put to bed using hindsight as an argument that Trotz is so superior to Maurice when Trotz's record was extremely mediocre at the time he was "available". In fact, I'd say that, based on their careers up until January 2014 when Maurice was hired, that Laviolette was the best available option at the time, not Trotz.

Yes and pomo was a tv analyst. Couldn't find work.

I could have worded it better. I meant that they never looked for the best coach available at all never interviewed a single other coach. I think Trotz was the best available.

Well, unless you were on the hiring panel, you have no idea if they interviewed another coach or not, as the traditionally tight-lipped Jets organization would not have leaked otherwise. Do we know Trotz or Laviolette or other coaches available at the time wanted the Winnipeg job? I can see Trotz taking it, sure, but probably not Laviolette. In demand coaches can pick and choose where they want to go as well.

You think Trotz was the best available because of what he did AFTER he went to Washington, not because of what he did before, because if it was that, then you'd be arguing for a coach with a worse playoff record than Maurice currently has, at the time he was available.

 

[Jet]

correct answer IMO.

No matter what we are playing out the string now and enduring our first slump. Paul will want to get the team playing right but after that there is not much to accomplish standings wise.

In the playoffs we will have a shot to beat the Oilers but they have owned us this season and are the favourites in my mind. Both teams are over due for winning a round.

I always like winning and dislike losing but don’t care that much about tonight. We are back to exhibition games again until the real hockey starts but I may tune in for one period. Been working allot on my sleep optimization lately so no late hockey games for me.

I'm of the same mind. I'd like to get second for home ice advantage but in reality, I just want to see continual improvement in key areas of our game. Even though we've struggled over the past 20 or so (struggling being 500 which is nice), I think we have improved our defensive efforts. I think that might be impacting our scoring a bit, but if we can get consistently better defending, and then layer in the scoring again, we will be in a much better spot in the playoffs.

What I want to see is for us to eliminate those few oh f*** moments where someone blows an assignment and we give up a 5 alarm chance. If we can play a more low event game overall, we have the elite talent to score timely goals and obviously have the best goaltending in the North. I still have hope.

 

[DRW204]

what did all the other available coaches who were hired around the time go on and accomplish with their respective teams? seems like some orgs made great decisions, other did not.

maybe maurice will pull a jon cooper this year and win in his 8th year.

The poster I was responding to said that Trotz was the "best available coach" at the time that Maurice was hired. I was pointing out that, at that time, his playoff record was pretty poor. We harp on Maurice for 2 playoff wins in 9+ seasons, Trotz hat 2 in 14 years, objectively worse than Maurice.

The point is not to compare Maurice and Trotz as coaches, it's to put to bed using hindsight as an argument that Trotz is so superior to Maurice when Trotz's record was extremely mediocre at the time he was "available". In fact, I'd say that, based on their careers up until January 2014 when Maurice was hired, that Laviolette was the best available option at the time, not Trotz.



Well, unless you were on the hiring panel, you have no idea if they interviewed another coach or not, as the traditionally tight-lipped Jets organization would not have leaked otherwise. Do we know Trotz or Laviolette or other coaches available at the time wanted the Winnipeg job? I can see Trotz taking it, sure, but probably not Laviolette. In demand coaches can pick and choose where they want to go as well.

You think Trotz was the best available because of what he did AFTER he went to Washington, not because of what he did before, because if it was that, then you'd be arguing for a coach with a worse playoff record than Maurice currently has, at the time he was available.

 

[WaveRaven]

The poster I was responding to said that Trotz was the "best available coach" at the time that Maurice was hired. I was pointing out that, at that time, his playoff record was pretty poor. We harp on Maurice for 2 playoff wins in 9+ seasons, Trotz hat 2 in 14 years, objectively worse than Maurice.

The point is not to compare Maurice and Trotz as coaches, it's to put to bed using hindsight as an argument that Trotz is so superior to Maurice when Trotz's record was extremely mediocre at the time he was "available". In fact, I'd say that, based on their careers up until January 2014 when Maurice was hired, that Laviolette was the best available option at the time, not Trotz.



Well, unless you were on the hiring panel, you have no idea if they interviewed another coach or not, as the traditionally tight-lipped Jets organization would not have leaked otherwise. Do we know Trotz or Laviolette or other coaches available at the time wanted the Winnipeg job? I can see Trotz taking it, sure, but probably not Laviolette. In demand coaches can pick and choose where they want to go as well.

You think Trotz was the best available because of what he did AFTER he went to Washington, not because of what he did before, because if it was that, then you'd be arguing for a coach with a worse playoff record than Maurice currently has, at the time he was available.

Sorry but if you look back at my rants here back then I hated it. It concerned me then and now. Its part of the reason I've cooled on this team then.

I used to post way more then and have only really re-engaged here recently. But have been reading all this time. I should see if I could find one. Hated it then hate it now.

If my memory serves me they said they'd review it in summer but didn't they sign right away at seasons end ?

 

[tbcwpg]

what did all the other available coaches who were hired around the time go on and accomplish with their respective teams? seems like some orgs made great decisions, other did not.

maybe maurice will pull a jon cooper this year and win in his 8th year.

Again, using hindsight is a cop out.

Sorry but if you look back at my rants here back then I hated it. It concerned me then and now. Its part of the reason I've cooled on this team then.

I used to post way more then and have only really re-engaged here recently. But have been reading all this time. I should see if I could find one. Hated it then hate it now.

If my memory serves me they said they'd review it in summer but didn't they sign right away at seasons end ?

I'm not disputing that you personally didn't like it at the time. I'm saying that Trotz's reputation has largely been built off of what he did AFTER Maurice was hired here, not before.

 

[DRW204]

im not the one that said maurice was the best or worst hire.

and it's definitely not.

Again, using hindsight is a cop out.



I'm not disputing that you personally didn't like it at the time. I'm saying that Trotz's reputation has largely been built off of what he did AFTER Maurice was hired here, not before.

 

[WaveRaven]

Fair enough cbc I think people weren't paying attention then. He did lot with nothing in Nashville.

I like to point out to the pro Trotz crowd we could have had him I think.

 

[tbcwpg]

im not the one that said maurice was the best or worst hire.

and it's definitely not.

Neither am I. I'm saying Trotz today isn't the same as Trotz then. Both teams would look so different by this point it's really difficult to say whether Trotz would've had more success here or not.

 

[DRW204]

Neither am I. I'm saying Trotz today isn't the same as Trotz then. Both teams would look so different by this point it's really difficult to say whether Trotz would've had more success here or not.

so im not sure why you're quoting and messaging this to me then?

maybe you quoted the wrong post? idk who the best or worst hire at the time was. im not in those interviews or discussions.

The poster I was responding to said that Trotz was the "best available coach" at the time that Maurice was hired. I was pointing out that, at that time, his playoff record was pretty poor. We harp on Maurice for 2 playoff wins in 9+ seasons, Trotz hat 2 in 14 years, objectively worse than Maurice.

anyway compare what trotz has done post-nsh and maurice has done since being hired. think wsh and nyi are quite pleased with their results and their hires. and i think most jets fans on here are not given the resutels over 8 seasons.

 

[FonRiesen]

This is exactly the problem I've had with Maurice for the last few seasons. The refrain is constantly "we're focusing on team defence" but the defence isn't good and is basically completely dependent on Hellebuyck to steal games from what I see.

The Lightning have offensive depth and use it to their advantage every damn game. There have been a ton games where our offence looks completely flat and, arguably, uninterested. I think that is on Maurice to have that happen with the amount of talent our team has.

We are dependent on our talent to steal games, but the structure just isn't there to make them shine every game and in game adjustments aren't made when what we're doing isn't working. I thought this was very evident during the Vegas series.

It's time for a change.

(Also HOW does Charlie Huddy still have a job?)

Gud vet pro, Stanley Cup champion.

Being lucky enough to be on Gretzky's team clearly means that you know how to be a Gud pro winner coach. He also won the plus/minus award one year... So that means he must be good at understanding defense.

 

[JetsUK]

Well, Nik's out for a while. Time to dig deep into your roster and get the team motivated, coach.

 

[Gabe Kupari]

Buff was a fan of Huddy. Credited him quite a bit.

 

[surixon]

Well, Nik's out for a while. Time to dig deep into your roster and get the team motivated, coach.

Some of his best coaching decisions seem to come when he's forced into them from injuries. We shall see how things go this time around.

 

[WolfHouse]

Some of his best coaching decisions seem to come when he's forced into them from injuries. We shall see how things go this time around.

Roslovic sure bungled his contract talks it seems... he'd be top six for a large chunk of this season and probably in Appleton's spot on the power play

 

[Gabe Kupari]

Roslovic sure bungled his contract talks it seems... he'd be top six for a large chunk of this season and probably in Appleton's spot on the power play

Don't bet on it. He's dumber than a bag of rocks

 

[voyageur]

I'm of the same mind. I'd like to get second for home ice advantage but in reality, I just want to see continual improvement in key areas of our game. Even though we've struggled over the past 20 or so (struggling being 500 which is nice), I think we have improved our defensive efforts. I think that might be impacting our scoring a bit, but if we can get consistently better defending, and then layer in the scoring again, we will be in a much better spot in the playoffs.

What I want to see is for us to eliminate those few oh f*** moments where someone blows an assignment and we give up a 5 alarm chance. If we can play a more low event game overall, we have the elite talent to score timely goals and obviously have the best goaltending in the North. I still have hope.

I honestly would rather be 3rd. The Jets haven't been good at home, and worse home ice advantage is probably going to lead to more 8:30 or 9 pm starts our time, especially if TV is dictating things.

I agree with the rest of what you are saying.

I think Maurice is making a big mistake benching Stanley for Benn though. You spend all this time building up a player's confidence. That's Vincent's primary role. But then you get to the bigs, do the right things, like lead the team in +/- (last game which d-man had the most scoring chances) and Maurice scratches him for a d-man that has nothing to prove, who may in fact be the reason why Vancouver has improved since trading him?

I don't get it. If you don't think rookies can do the job, when will they be ready to do it? Everyone started as a rookie in the playoffs at some point.

 

[WolfHouse]

Don't bet on it. He's dumber than a bag of rocks

That being said, Columbus is not on Pallister lockdown... so maybe he didn't

 

[Jet]

I honestly would rather be 3rd. The Jets haven't been good at home, and worse home ice advantage is probably going to lead to more 8:30 or 9 pm starts our time, especially if TV is dictating things.

I agree with the rest of what you are saying.

I think Maurice is making a big mistake benching Stanley for Benn though. You spend all this time building up a player's confidence. That's Vincent's primary role. But then you get to the bigs, do the right things, like lead the team in +/- (last game which d-man had the most scoring chances) and Maurice scratches him for a d-man that has nothing to prove, who may in fact be the reason why Vancouver has improved since trading him?

I don't get it. If you don't think rookies can do the job, when will they be ready to do it? Everyone started as a rookie in the playoffs at some point.

Yeah, on one hand - I think Benn deserves more than 2 games to show something. That's a big ask for anyone to come to a new team, new systems new partners. I get that we pretty much know what we are going to get from Benn but it still makes sense to at least give him some games in the regular season.

What I would have done is pull Poolman out for Benn. Poolman was a disaster last game and he's had far more of those than anything this season. Or, at least pull out Forbort who needs a rest. Stanley should be a permanent fixture on the bottom pair and only come out for Heinola if he comes back up.