Coaching Thread (II)

[Duke749]

There was a ‘Canes fan (tarheelhockey if you’ve ever seen him) who made a very good point when it comes to benching you’re star players or leaders in a main board thread when Kuch got sat for a period of time. Just can’t remember what he said.

 

[tbcwpg]

I think at the end of the day many of us just want it to appear like 55 "gives a shit" (for lack of a better term) game in, game out. How can the guys in the dressing room look up to him as a leader? Him wearing an A is like it used to be in the minor hockey days...you wore a letter because you were one of the better players.

What would happen to Laine/Ehlers or Roslo if they consistently took crappy penalties like our Captain does? Take a seat young man. The Captain....not a chance he sees the pine. At least Wheeler always seems to be trying out there and shows some level of caring so I will give him that.

Maybe PoMo thinks it would be in bad taste to bench or call out a "leader"?

I think there's a lot of conjecture about how the dressing room is working here. People can look up to him as a PPG player. The good players wear letters in the NHL too. They stay good at the NHL because they work at staying good.

Wheeler has taken a couple of bad penalties in the last 2 or 3 games but he's not usually taking bad ones.

 

[Duke749]

I think there's a lot of conjecture about how the dressing room is working here. People can look up to him as a PPG player. The good players wear letters in the NHL too. They stay good at the NHL because they work at staying good.

Wheeler has taken a couple of bad penalties in the last 2 or 3 games but he's not usually taking bad ones.

Old habits die hard and those three bad penalties will give him some ill will around here for awhile. People get too caught up in a handful of events and tend to overreact. It’s human nature.

 

[grieves]

Sure, but how many games are they losing handily lately? They lost by two in Philly, by one in Buffalo. The only games they've lost like that in February was the Rangers game.

People are talking about some sort of consequences for their play in threads about tight games. Players aren't dumb, they understand what's going on.

Benching players isn't always the solution. Not everyone responds the same way to the same management methods.

I guess you are right, the lack of accountability has led us into a situation where you can no longer hold top players accountable due to the urgency of the situation. The chickens have come home to roost so to speak.

I'm sure you see the overall issue at least.

 

[Gm0ney]

Found a stat online that has PIM/TOI%. Ehlers and Wheeler are off by .1. Scheif is a little higher. Interesting look though. Laine and Connor rarely take penalties.

Ehlers' PIM/60 looks worse because of all the fights... Wait...no really. His Minor Penalties/60 is 0.39 - that's 9th among Jets with 200+ minutes. Slightly better than 12th ranked Kyle Connor who's put up a 0.42.

But Penalties-Drawn/60 is where Ehlers shines with 1.56. Second place is this category is Wheeler with 1.09...so it's quite a gap.

So in terms of Penalty Differential per 60:

1. Ehlers 1.10
2. Harkins 0.77
3. Copp 0.63
4. Wheeler 0.61
5. Scheifele 0.40
6. Appleton 0.30
7. Roslovic 0.21
8. Laine 0.19
9. Bourque 0.15
10t. Connor 0.12
10t. Perreault 0.12
12. Shaw 0.00

Everyone else takes more penalties than they draw. That includes every defenseman, plus Shore and Lowry.

Anyway, Ehlers is elite at penalty differential and has been for a few years I believe. He's 10th in the NHL this year in draws/60. Moar Ehlers!

 

[tbcwpg]

I guess you are right, the lack of accountability has led us into a situation where you can no longer hold top players accountable due to the urgency of the situation. The chickens have come home to roost so to speak.

I'm sure you see the overall issue at least.

I can see what you and others think is the overall issue, I just don't agree with the solution promoted, nor the root cause of it.

 

[ecolad]

The underlying premise in all this discussion is that Scheifele/Wheeler refuse to be held accountable, for their shortcomings on ice. Maurice has never felt the urge to discipline either by way of line change or reduced ice time, but, is it possible that he has never felt compelled to let them know in no uncertain terms what he doesn`t like and how he expects them to change?? Private discussion with them to increase self-awareness would be a great start, but, managed discussion in front of teammates at practice sessions to generate a sense of letting teammates and team down, might be the answer.

 

[tbcwpg]

The underlying premise in all this discussion is that Scheifele/Wheeler refuse to be held accountable, for their shortcomings on ice. Maurice has never felt the urge to discipline either by way of line change or reduced ice time, but, is it possible that he has never felt compelled to let them know in no uncertain terms what he doesn`t like and how he expects them to change?? Private discussion with them to increase self-awareness would be a great start, but, managed discussion in front of teammates at practice sessions to generate a sense of letting teammates and team down, might be the answer.

Lots of assumptions here, especially your underlined. Also the assumption that Scheifele and Wheeler refuse to play defence when it's more likely that they just aren't very good at it, in my opinion.

 

[Duke749]

Ehlers' PIM/60 looks worse because of all the fights... Wait...no really. His Minor Penalties/60 is 0.39 - that's 9th among Jets with 200+ minutes. Slightly better than 12th ranked Kyle Connor who's put up a 0.42.

But Penalties-Drawn/60 is where Ehlers shines with 1.56. Second place is this category is Wheeler with 1.09...so it's quite a gap.

So in terms of Penalty Differential per 60:

1. Ehlers 1.10
2. Harkins 0.77
3. Copp 0.63
4. Wheeler 0.61
5. Scheifele 0.40
6. Appleton 0.30
7. Roslovic 0.21
8. Laine 0.19
9. Bourque 0.15
10t. Connor 0.12
10t. Perreault 0.12
12. Shaw 0.00

Everyone else takes more penalties than they draw. That includes every defenseman, plus Shore and Lowry.

Anyway, Ehlers is elite at penalty differential and has been for a few years I believe. He's 10th in the NHL this year in draws/60. Moar Ehlers!

Appreciate the correction. Wasn’t thinking about that at the time.

 

[Eyeseeing]

Agreed , and maybe people's absolute hate for Maurice means they are constantly looking for something , anything , to complain about .

I enjoy reading this thread as much as a Leaf PGT after a loss or the 1290 thread.
As John Agar would say

 

[Eyeseeing]

Old habits die hard and those three bad penalties will give him some ill will around here for awhile. People get too caught up in a handful of events and tend to overreact. It’s human nature.

Except for Spock

 

[Mbraunm]

I find it funny that some will attack Maurice for perceiving him to favor Scheif, by never holding him accountable for his poor defensive play at times.

Then they will call Maurice out when Scheif appears to not be warm and fuzzy with him, insinuating that they are not getting along, that there is a riff between them.

So just maybe Maurice is calling Scheif out, behind closed doors, and Scheif is not responding well to it.

No, in reality, Maurice often praises Scheif publicly even when he has been horrible on defense. Objectively speaking, there is nothing to support your claim-only hopeful guessing.

 

[Mbraunm]

Lots of assumptions here, especially your underlined. Also the assumption that Scheifele and Wheeler refuse to play defence when it's more likely that they just aren't very good at it, in my opinion.

Then why aren’t they held accountable to play better defense like everyone else???

 

[tbcwpg]

Then why aren’t they held accountable to play better defense like everyone else???

Laine and Ehlers? Laine has played better defence, so it's really just Ehlers.

If this is true, and they're not playing well on defence because they don't care, ship them both out immediately because they won't listen to anyone.

 

[Mbraunm]

Laine and Ehlers? Laine has played better defence, so it's really just Ehlers.

If this is true, and they're not playing well on defence because they don't care, ship them both out immediately because they won't listen to anyone.

I was referring to Scheif, not Ehlers or Laine. He needs to be held accountable.

 

[HPsauce]

We need more physicality in our line up. Getting rid of guys who literally can’t do anything with the puck is a good idea too.

a number one centre, and number one d man too

 

[tbcwpg]

I was referring to Scheif, not Ehlers or Laine. He needs to be held accountable.

You said why aren't they "held accountable" like everyone else is, and I said that Ehlers is really the only player moved around because of mistakes.

Benching isn't always the answer. I don't think it is in Scheifele's case.

 

[MrBoJangelz71]

No, in reality, Maurice often praises Scheif publicly even when he has been horrible on defense. Objectively speaking, there is nothing to support your claim-only hopeful guessing.

I think if you read my post correctly, you would gather that it is not my claim.

 

[Mbraunm]

I think if you read my post correctly, you would gather that it is not my claim.

Going back and reading your post you are right-my bad.

 

[Jets 31]

As much as our defense misses Buff we are missing Little at center . Scheifele , Little , Copp or Lowry and then Eakin would definitely be better than Scheifele , Copp , Eakin and Shore .

 

[Sperss1997]

Ehlers' PIM/60 looks worse because of all the fights... Wait...no really. His Minor Penalties/60 is 0.39 - that's 9th among Jets with 200+ minutes. Slightly better than 12th ranked Kyle Connor who's put up a 0.42.

But Penalties-Drawn/60 is where Ehlers shines with 1.56. Second place is this category is Wheeler with 1.09...so it's quite a gap.

So in terms of Penalty Differential per 60:

1. Ehlers 1.10
2. Harkins 0.77
3. Copp 0.63
4. Wheeler 0.61
5. Scheifele 0.40
6. Appleton 0.30
7. Roslovic 0.21
8. Laine 0.19
9. Bourque 0.15
10t. Connor 0.12
10t. Perreault 0.12
12. Shaw 0.00

Everyone else takes more penalties than they draw. That includes every defenseman, plus Shore and Lowry.

Anyway, Ehlers is elite at penalty differential and has been for a few years I believe. He's 10th in the NHL this year in draws/60. Moar Ehlers!

Luckily all the 5 minutes penalties due to fights Ehlers are drawing (we all know he is the well-known enforcer-that-every-player-in-the-NHL-fears) are off-setting penalties.

I think the reason that Maurice is not using Ehlers well, is that he is not capable of seing what Ehlers does well defensively. In his interviews he often implies that he does not think Ehlers is good defensively and he probably doesn't trust the underlying metrics available to him. For him good defending is all about physical play, so a small guy like Ehlers who does not use his body at the boards very often cant be good at defending, right?
When Ehlers scored a SH goal recently Pomo said postgame that it would definitely not happen again (playing Ehlers on PK) with a smile on his face, instead he plays Connor who is a defensive black hole. Makes no sense.
It can be really tough for anyone - including hockey coaches at the NHL- level to see through their own biases. Obviously, Maurice would never listen to a stupid Dane like me, but maybe he would listen to master Yoda:

 

[leer2006]

Lots of assumptions here, especially your underlined. Also the assumption that Scheifele and Wheeler refuse to play defence when it's more likely that they just aren't very good at it, in my opinion.

So you are saying that 2 of the best hockey players in the world. In the best league in the world just aren't very good at playing defense? They got to where they are today due to hard work and Tallent. That alone should give them the ability to play decent defense. They just choose not too. Saying anything else about those 2 is being disingenuous to yourself and others.

 

[surixon]

Would I ever like to see this team play with the poise and quick puck movement that Washington displayed last night. We had some of that in 2015 but not near as much now.

I don't think it's fully a talent thing either except on defense we just aren't coached to play that way.

I still have a hard time seeing how the org can see that Maurice is the right tactical coach for this team moving forward. He is completely adverse to letting this team play creatively barring the team trailing or having enough players he trusts in the lineup to act as a safety blanket.

 

[tntkid]

We need more physicality in our line up. Getting rid of guys who literally can’t do anything with the puck is a good idea too.

a number one centre, and number one d man too

Losing Tanev, B Lemieux , Trouba and Buff took almost all of the physical play out of our team.

In two years we became a soft non physical team that other teams easily take advantage of.

 

[Al Camino]

oops posted in wrong thread!