Coach Discussion: Coaching Thread 3

[nobody imp0rtant]

In 50 minutes with DeMelo, Scheifele's xGA/60 was a very tidy 1.49. That's based on only 50 minutes together, but that's much lower than Scheifele's metrics with Buff or Trouba.

So to bring this back to this thread topic, it sounds like what you are saying is that Buff and Trouba were masking Scheifele's defensive shortcomings in much the same way that Helly has been masking Maurice's coaching shortcomings. N'est-ce pas?

 

[Roughneck1]

In 50 minutes with DeMelo, Scheifele's xGA/60 was a very tidy 1.49. That's based on only 50 minutes together, but that's much lower than Scheifele's metrics with Buff or Trouba.

I would think get could be a due to sample size. The Jets we’re playing some good hockey around the time DeMelo was added. Buff was a high event player. So no surprise there but he created a lot more then he gave up.

 

[ps241]

Why do you think it is a big if that he re-signs?

I worded that poorly I meant it’s a big if for both pieces DeMelo + a cap hit only (UFA) top 4 asset (Like Dillon)

if we land both pieces we have a legit top 4 D

 

[FonRiesen]

If we moved Winnipeg to Tampa and Tampa to Winnipeg we wouldn't be having this dicussion right now we would be waiting for game 3 against Dallas with us up 2 to 0.

Only if we kept Tampa's coaches and their respective systems in place as well. If Maurice was coaching he'd be implementing his own systems and shoehorning players into his preconceived notions. He'd probably have tried to turn Brayden Point into a power forward and give him 3rd/4th line minutes until he can grind and dump & chase...

 

[Whileee]

So to bring this back to this thread topic, it sounds like what you are saying is that Buff and Trouba were masking Scheifele's defensive shortcomings in much the same way that Helly has been masking Maurice's coaching shortcomings. N'est-ce pas?

In a way, I think Buff masked Scheifele's defensive shortcomings, but in some specific ways. If the Jets' D continues to struggle in stopping cycles, then Scheifele will have to change how he plays. If they get a D or two that are good at stopping cycles, the Scheifele's strengths can be augmented.

The 2017/18 Jets were an absolute juggernaut, with or without Hellebuyck, with Maurice behind the bench. The Jets had a horrendous D this year and any coach would have struggled without Hellebuyck in net.

 

[Whileee]

I would think get could be a due to sample size. The Jets we’re playing some good hockey around the time DeMelo was added. Buff was a high event player. So no surprise there but he created a lot more then he gave up.

Point is that the team prevented shots at a high rate when Scheifele was with Buff, moreso than with Trouba, so not just generating more shot attempts.

 

[grieves]

You want us to be more offensive minded with Bitetto, Boolow, Dahlstrom, Sbisa, Poolman and Kuli playing the back end? Really?

The issue there was what the GM gave the caoch as D men.

Absolutely. Figure out which combinations give the highest goal output off the rush (which is something this team excels at even though we try to avoid it like the plague), focus strategy solely on rush attacks and not running the cycle thus minimizing the impact of the poor D. Yes we will be hemmed in our own zone and looking at o-zone-time it will not be pretty, but it doesn't matter if we win the game.

We are gonna get scored on but we should rely on us scoring more with Helle as the last line of defense.

Maybe this plan sucks but we could have at least tried something else. There is always an excuse if you get into that mindset. So we had poor D, too bad. We still had a Vezina goaltender and I'm sure with the correct roster combinations and offensive strategy we could squeeze out a lot more out of the lineup. I'm not even close to having that as an acceptable excuse.

 

[10Ducky10]

Absolutely. Figure out which combinations give the highest goal output off the rush (which is something this team excels at even though we try to avoid it like the plague), focus strategy solely on rush attacks and not running the cycle thus minimizing the impact of the poor D. Yes we will be hemmed in our own zone and looking at o-zone-time it will not be pretty, but it doesn't matter if we win the game.

We are gonna get scored on but we should rely on us scoring more with Helle as the last line of defense.

Maybe this plan sucks but we could have at least tried something else. There is always an excuse if you get into that mindset. So we had poor D, too bad. We still had a Vezina goaltender and I'm sure with the correct roster combinations and offensive strategy we could squeeze out a lot more out of the lineup. I'm not even close to having that as an acceptable excuse.

Not an excuse, it is a reason.

 

[PhilJets]

In a way, I think Buff masked Scheifele's defensive shortcomings, but in some specific ways. If the Jets' D continues to struggle in stopping cycles, then Scheifele will have to change how he plays. If they get a D or two that are good at stopping cycles, the Scheifele's strengths can be augmented.

The 2017/18 Jets were an absolute juggernaut, with or without Hellebuyck, with Maurice behind the bench. The Jets had a horrendous D this year and any coach would have struggled without Hellebuyck in net.

The 2017 2018 Jets is indeed a juggernaut.
Without helly they would have had a very good team. With another coach behind the bench most likely they go into the finals and give the Capitals a run for their money, because they are a juggernaut team as you said.

 

[Whileee]

The 2017 2018 Jets is indeed a juggernaut.
Without helly they would have had a very good team. With another coach behind the bench most likely they go into the finals and give the Capitals a run for their money, because they are a juggernaut team as you said.

Hellebuyck was the second best goalie in the Vegas series, which is a substantial reason why the Jets didn't reach the Finals.

 

[Neuf]

Hellebuyck was the second best goalie in the Vegas series, which is a substantial reason why the Jets didn't reach the Finals.

Schiefele was also second best goal scorer in that series.
Wheeler was second best points getter in the series.

The only thing the Jets were number one in was time on ice.

I think the fact that the Jets previous series went to 7 games while Vegas had a week off between series had a bigger impact than the fact that 3 extra goals were allowed by Bucky over 5 games.

Jets were burned out.

 

[Whileee]

Schiefele was also second best goal scorer in that series.
Wheeler was second best points getter in the series.

The only thing the Jets were number one in was time on ice.

I think the fact that the Jets previous series went to 7 games while Vegas had a week off between series had a bigger impact than the fact that 3 extra goals were allowed by Bucky over 5 games.

Jets were burned out.

Yes, the Central Division was definitely more bruising than the Pacific that year.

 

[Al Camino]

Hellebuyck was the second best goalie in the Vegas series, which is a substantial reason why the Jets didn't reach the Finals.

True but this team has been bad for two seasons now.

 

[Whileee]

True but this team has been bad for two seasons now.

Jets were 10th overall and second in the Central Division with 99 points (0.604) in 2018/19. I wouldn't say that is "bad", in terms of overall results.

 

[Al Camino]

Jets were 10th overall and second in the Central Division with 99 points (0.604) in 2018/19. I wouldn't say that is "bad", in terms of overall results.

They started out very well. They were pretty terrible from December on and were down right terrible for stretches and blew first place in the division in the last week of the season.

The frustrating part is for the last two years at the end of each season the owner gives the players, coach and GM an A grade yet gets C results and no one in media around these parts seems to question it.

 

[Whileee]

They started out very well. They were pretty terrible from December on and were down right terrible for stretches and blew first place in the division in the last week of the season.

The frustrating part is for the last two years at the end of each season the owner gives the players, coach and GM an A grade yet gets C results and no one in media around these parts seems to question it.

For the 1000th time, don't you think the major injuries to Buff, Ehlers and Morrissey affected the Jets' performance in the second half?

 

[drumzan]

Who does everybody want to be the next coach? Paul Maurice can’t be the coach forever. I’ve always thought and hoped for Hawerchuk #RIP but that’s no longer happening.

 

[Whileee]

Who does everybody want to be the next coach? Paul Maurice can’t be the coach forever. I’ve always thought and hoped for Hawerchuk #RIP but that’s no longer happening.

Anyone who thinks they know a coach that would be a surefire success is just kidding themselves.

 

[drumzan]

Anyone who thinks they know a coach that would be a surefire success is just kidding themselves.

Of course. But for all the people that want Maurice gone... who would they want to be hired?

 

[GaryPoppins]

Of course. But for all the people that want Maurice gone... who would they want to be hired?

Gallant, Boudreau come to mind

 

[Eyeseeing]

I’m not so sure a pure coaching change without roster moves would be any more beneficial than what’s going on now.
Just cannot see Maurice being fired for at least 2 more seasons.
Not sure who I’d want as of right now.

 

[Jets 31]

For the 1000th time, don't you think the major injuries to Buff, Ehlers and Morrissey affected the Jets' performance in the second half?

Come on, any coach could do better with a defense of Pionk , Boo Boo, Bitetto , Dahlstrom , Sbisa and Kulikov .

 

[grieves]

A new coach might not be the one to lead this team to success. But I'm fairly confident it would give a whole new perspective to what the actual problems are. Kind of like having another angle to see a replay.

We know the current way sucks without a vezina-goaltender to keep some of it together. There is nothing to lose with shaking things up. This team has been one of the worst teams in the league in terms of expected goals. Just absolute garbage.

I can't believe how anyone can spin this as "we just had roster-deficiencies". That's part of it sure, but I mean...

Let's just do something different for once. This is like watching paint dry.

And asking who I would replace Maurice with? I would go homer-vote and say Jalonen. Easy enough to hang "the outsider" if he fails as well and replace him too. It's not a bad idea actually but it requires ANY ACTION AT ALL from the management group, which is a tall ask, I'm sure.

 

[nobody imp0rtant]

A new coach might not be the one to lead this team to success. But I'm fairly confident it would give a whole new perspective to what the actual problems are. Kind of like having another angle to see a replay.

We know the current way sucks without a vezina-goaltender to keep some of it together. There is nothing to lose with shaking things up. This team has been one of the worst teams in the league in terms of expected goals. Just absolute garbage.

I can't believe how anyone can spin this as "we just had roster-deficiencies". That's part of it sure, but I mean...

Let's just do something different for once. This is like watching paint dry.

And asking who I would replace Maurice with? I would go homer-vote and say Jalonen. Easy enough to hang "the outsider" if he fails as well and replace him too. It's not a bad idea actually but it requires ANY ACTION AT ALL from the management group, which is a tall ask, I'm sure.

Which is why change has to start at the top. Fresh eyes are needed to review our coaches and players. And politely tell Chipman to stay in his office. At this point, I would expect a coaching change to be nothing more than promoting Vincent.

Is Jalonen even interested in such a move? If so, he should probably be looking at AHL or assistant positions first to gain some coaching experience in NA. I think it would be very difficult for a Euro coach to make the jump directly to NHL head coach. If for no other reason than I think there could be resistance from some players to an "outsider" as you put it.

 

[Whileee]

Gallant, Boudreau come to mind

For what it's worth, Gallant coached the 2018/19 VGK to a worse record than the Jets, and a 1st round playoff exit.