Speculation: Coach Killers?

[Behind Enemy Lines]

I really don't have any idea who might be available or who would fit that mold. I'm thinking if they can find someone exiting their prime that is undervalued that is maybe a 2/3 it might work. I'll poke around rosters a bit and see if anyone comes to mind and quote this post if so.

The story was that Stevens (I think it was him, but may be mixed up) helped mold Larsson into a meaner player. But the player also has to want to do that. Bouchard has rarely shown such a desire, but who knows? I think it's worth trying to push him into that, but he has to get back up to speed on positional defense etc, puck movement confidence like you said

I felt like there was potential for the players to fill these spots but any of the D with bite are either too low on skill (Nemo), or too young (Munzenberger) or too unproven (Desharnais). If Woody and Manson are adamant about running 11-7 I'd like to see them give Kesselring and Desharnais a go. They should see what they have with these players anyhow as the time to 'make a decision' is coming, if I'm not mistaken their waiver exemption expires soon.

Game is so different in Europe big ice to North America smaller ice, greater physicality (though the league is becoming soft), and speed of play and decision making. The adjustment for d-men takes time to adjust to competing hard in smaller contested spaces. Larsson had very solid mentorship in Jersey including guys like Stevens, Daneyko, Greene and Abelin. Even with Larsson's high draft pedigree it took several years for the raw pieces to click in and become a defined NHL defenseman.

We're seeing the transition challenges currently with Broberg who has similar excellent tool kit but at age 21 still adjusting to the physical strength and assertiveness of North American opposition while gaining experience with the speed of decision making required at NHL level. We saw flashes in his age 20 NHL call-ups notably in Vegas basically a month and change into his first N. America season and late game at RD in Calgary where he played big minutes in a critical game. Issue is this team's advance stage of development needs NHL seasoned, experience d-men NOW to prop up a very mediocre defense corp.

Broberg's head of the class of a solid developing prospect group of big defensemen. Problem is that none provide immediate ability to drive team success, especially own zone goal suppression confidence, required for an aspiring deep playoff team. Bouchard is the hard reality of up and down development of a young defender on a playoff competitor team. We see flashes of what Bouchard can be but this team is forced to live with hard development lessons as well continuing to onboard a critical young defenseman.

Personally, I don't perceive Kesselring to be NHL ready. He's still a very good project, more of an offensive d-man, who needs to get physically stronger and work on defending pro level (AHL) opposition. Desharnais is the closest and very unfortunate he was hurt in camp. Issue is foot speed and health. Add guys like Kemp, long cook guys like Warner, Munzenberger, and Yevseyev who are three to five years away.

Trouble is the Oilers need veteran defensemen to match the winning window of its elite forward group. Can't understate again how this team was pooched with Klefbom and Larsson's losses. Oil have to trade for one middle pair or better d-man and frankly two might be needed to solidify the current platoon group.

 

[SwedishFire]

Don't forget the 5 million from Jack Campbell

Campbell, Yamamoto, puljujärvi is 11,1 millions locked cap.

Of those, I say Puljus contracts has best value.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

Barrie, RNH, Draisaitl with some piss poor defensive efforts v the Islanders all resulting in goals against.

These issues are coach killers.

 

[JordanGalhanth]

Barrie, RNH, Draisaitl with some piss poor defensive efforts v the Islanders all resulting in goals against.

These issues are coach killers.

But how can you discipline/bench/scratch any of those names and not get in hot water? Danged if you do, danged if you don't.

 

[Oilhawks]

Coach killaz!!

 

[Soundwave]

Coach killaz!!

Did someone say Coach Killers?

There's your ultimate coach killers.

But how can you discipline/bench/scratch any of those names and not get in hot water? Danged if you do, danged if you don't.

Torts would do it. Babcock too. But no, we can't have screaming in the locker room.

 

[Oilhawks]

Did someone say Coach Killers?

There's your ultimate coach killers.



Torts would do it. Babcock too. But no, we can't have screaming in the locker room.

Torts and Babcock are washed up dinosaurs.

These losers would tune them out in a season, at most.

Philly is already back to being dogshit

 

[Soundwave]

Torts and Babcock are washed up dinosaurs.

These losers would tune them out in a season, at most.

Who knew drafting like shit for 7 years (50 draft picks, not one makes a difference in games other than maybe Stuart Skinner and that's still a big maybe) and not winning a trade in 6 years + 8 months (Maroon trade) and making slow motion adds via one good UFA per off-season (in a good year) would lead to a roster with massive problems?

 

[Oilhawks]

Who knew drafting like shit for 7 years (50 draft picks, not one makes a difference in games other than maybe Stuart Skinner and that's still a big maybe) and not winning a trade in 6 years + 8 months (Maroon trade) and making slow motion adds via one good UFA per off-season (in a good year) would lead to a roster with massive problems?

Holland is as over the hill as those junk coaches you’re pining for, yes. But Keith, Smith and Kane out is enough to make it complete dog water? How so?

There is no buy in because there is no leadership. It’s a f***ing country club

 

[Soundwave]

Holland is as over the hill as those junk coaches you’re pining for, yes. But Keith, Smith and Kane out is enough to make it complete dog water? How so?

There is no buy in because there is no leadership. It’s a f***ing country club

I'm not even pining for them, they are the only ones that could this group to maybe listen because the roster holes are so ridiculous from the worst management in pro sports (yes, pro sports, not just the NHL) that you need a coach who is ridiculously detail oriented and will shit on the ice literally and shove the players face in it before they renege on their systems play.

But you don't need a coach that systems oriented if you actually built a roster half competently. Dubas is 10x the GM anyone the Oilers have had, which is sad. Even dumbo pants Treliving in Calgary, if he was gifted two players that good, he'd build a far better team. The Oilers constantly have the worst management in Canada, worst drafting too.

Vancouver has won lower draft picks outside of gimme top 3 picks (Boeser, Demko, Petterson, Hughes) so has Calgary (drafted Fox good thing he didn't want to play for them, Mangiapane, Tkachuk, shit I mean they found Gaudreau in like round 5? Found Giordano in a dumpster somewhere, drafted Brodie, etc. etc. ).

And those two teams aren't even known for great drafting, yet they are light years better than us at drafting players.

 

[Oilhawks]

I'm not even pining for them, they are the only ones that could this group to maybe listen because the roster holes are so ridiculous from the worst management in pro sports (yes, pro sports, not just the NHL) that you need a coach who is ridiculously detail oriented and will shit on the ice literally and shove the players face in it before they renege on their systems play.

But you don't need a coach that systems oriented if you actually built a roster half competently. Dubas is 10x the GM anyone the Oilers have had, which is sad. Even dumbo pants Treliving in Calgary, if he was gifted two players that good, he'd build a far better team. The Oilers constantly have the worst management in Canada, worst drafting too.

Vancouver has won lower draft picks outside of gimme top 3 picks (Boeser, Demko, Petterson, Hughes) so has Calgary (drafted Fox good thing he didn't want to play for them, Mangiapane, Tkachuk, shit I mean they found Gaudreau in like round 5?).

And those two teams aren't even known for great drafting, yet they are light years better than us.

You know what? I’m not interested in getting into your repetitive single minded bullshit. Enjoy spamming the same junk over and over for someone who cares

 

[Soundwave]

You know what? I’m not interested in getting into your repetitive single minded bullshit. Enjoy spamming the same junk over and over for someone who cares

Whatever. You can't outcoach and you can't outplay this level of shit management. If you think so, show me the team that has worse drafting and hasn't won a trade in almost 7 years that is successful now.

You can't because pro sports don't work like that.

 

[RandomGuy79]

It's sad to think the best GM and coach combo we've had in the past 30 years is Lowe and MacT.

 

[Mr Kot]

I miss the hard working Oilers of the 90's and early 2000's.

 

[Trafalgar Sadge Law]

It's sad to think the best GM and coach combo we've had in the past 30 years is Lowe and MacT.

Kevin Lowe was getting dudes like Jan Hejda for 7th rounderes and meanwhile we fling 2nd/3rd round picks left and right and our only Jan Hejda level defenseman is the dude we're paying 9.25 million lmfao.

 

[Tarus]

The coach killer thing going on is the depleted roster and downgraded defense from last year. Not even really seeing the Oilers dogging it all that much, the issue being that ineffective hockey can look the same as low effort hockey, and the Oilers are dressing a lot of ineffective hockey players who can't become effective just by applying more effort

Kane added a significant boost to the top six that took a ton of pressure off Mcdavid/Drai, even when he was fighting it earlier in the season, and his absence has been glaring. The defense is also out of wack as there are again too many guys playing too high up the roster because the GM bet on a mediocre rookie to step into the lineup and play 2nd pairing minutes.

Holland is going to have to make another season saving move, because this team will be playing for Bedard by the time the trade deadline rolls around at this pace.

 

[Oilhawks]

It's sad to think the best GM and coach combo we've had in the past 30 years is Lowe and MacT.

Yup, and that’s truly scraping the barrel. Fortunate that everything went right for those two who were over their heads most other years in those positions.

 

[SnipeShowJB11]

Poor Connor and Leon.

They are basically playing tug of war and the people tugging behind these two are all about 4'5" tall and 80 pounds.

Still not giving a full pass to them. They can improve on the D side

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

But how can you discipline/bench/scratch any of those names and not get in hot water? Danged if you do, danged if you don't.

Ultimately players have to choose to buy in to a complete defensive effort or not.

Of these 3 Barrie is the most expendable with a sizeable cap hit but the way Bouchard is playing right now you might as well have Nemo on the blue line bombing shots into shin pads so we are stuck between a rock and a hard place.

That said we aren't trading ourselves out of this mess right now.

"The answer is in the locker room, or the water".

 

[rboomercat90]

It's sad to think the best GM and coach combo we've had in the past 30 years is Lowe and MacT.

Maybe bring back Sather then because all the success those two had was based on the work he did which was eroded year after year until it was gone.

 

[Soundwave]

Getting Kane basically saved the season last year, that's becoming more and more obvious. He came in and scored at a 50 goal rate for the season and playoffs, which gave the team a ton of confidence and gave them a tangible strength to hang their hat on (the ability to knock teams out completely offensively).

Since Kane has been injured, the Oilers have 2 wins (only 1 in regulation), 4 losses, and their offence has gone to shit, averaging 2.16 goals per game down from top 3-4 offence in the league that was averaging over 3.6 goal per game with him to start the season.

We simply can't sustain his loss and Puljujarvi, Yamamoto, Holloway, etc. have no ability to cover his loss (thanks Oiler drafting!). McDavid, Drai, RNH, Hyman are basically scoring at their peak ability you can't really squeeze any more offence from those four players, no one else has the ability to step up.

 

[frag2]

But how can you discipline/bench/scratch any of those names and not get in hot water? Danged if you do, danged if you don't.

McD's been benched before. Allegedly Nurse was benched in the Tbay game. So it's definitely doable. If their egos can't handle it, then they shouldn't be captain.

Ultimately players have to choose to buy in to a complete defensive effort or not.

Of these 3 Barrie is the most expendable with a sizeable cap hit but the way Bouchard is playing right now you might as well have Nemo on the blue line bombing shots into shin pads so we are stuck between a rock and a hard place.

That said we aren't trading ourselves out of this mess right now.

"The answer is in the locker room, or the water".

Bouchard has been utter garbage. Like by far the worst Dman this year. Nurse is bad but thtas when you factor in cap hit. Bouchard can't even shoot the puck properly. 20 games in, 0 goals for an "elite" offensive Dman. If hes outscoring his shit, then fine, but the guy doesn't even care about defending either

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Just remember:

Gagner/Cogliano/Nilsson were coach killers.
RNH/Hall/Eberle were coach killers.
McDavid/Draisatl/Nurse are coach killers.

Hmmm. Either the Oilers are remarkably good at drafting/acquiring coach killers or perhaps the coach killers are off the ice.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

Just remember:

Gagner/Cogliano/Nilsson were coach killers.
RNH/Hall/Eberle were coach killers.
McDavid/Draisatl/Nurse are coach killers.

Hmmm. Either the Oilers are remarkably good at drafting/acquiring coach killers or perhaps the coach killers are off the ice.

I started the thread wondering where peoples minds were at in terms of player culpability.

No question the off ice management has been poor, starting with league worst drafting, the development of prospects we did manage to draft that weren't total busts has been abysmal, and absolute brutal pro scouting resulting in garbage trades.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

I started the thread wondering where peoples minds were at in terms of player culpability.

No question the off ice management has been poor, starting with league worst drafting, the development of prospects we did manage to draft that weren't total busts has been abysmal, and absolute brutal pro scouting resulting in garbage trades.

For sure. The players could absolutely play better but this is the result of decades of poor decision making at all levels. The best teams in the league have lots of talent that they've drafted and developed, not to mention found hidden gems from other teams.

If you need an idea of how bad our drafting is, the last goalie we successfully drafted, developed, and had play well for us currently has his number in the rafters. Dubnyk is the best (and basically only) goalie we've drafted until Skinner and he didn't blossom until he was away from this team.

As much as people shit on Ethan Bear, he has the same number of points as Foegele in 8 less games and with a better +/-.

Going back to the year after the Cup run, how many trades/draft picks/decisions in the organization can you reasonably say were good? They had three picks in the first round in '07. Gagner at least played well but was forced into a role he wasn't ready for. Riley Nash forged a niche career, but nothing special. And then there's Alex Plante... If you go back even further... Between the end of the glory days and the McDavid draft, Jason Arnott is probably the best player we drafted. And we all know how that turned out...

Drafting/development/scouting for this team has to be the worst in the league, or bottom 5 at best. Go look at the list of draft picks for this team. It's downright depressing and hasn't gotten any better post-McDavid.

List of Edmonton Oilers draft picks - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org