Speculation: Coach Killers?

[Reasonable Oil Fan]

He does have a point. Fans talk about McDrai carrying the team, but so far they haven't really been net positive ES players. It' hard to win a lot of games if:
- the team production depends on two players
- those two allow as many goals as they score on even strength

I try not to put too much stock into +/-, but collectively the team is hovering around -30 only 20 games in.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

I try not to put too much stock into +/-, but collectively the team is hovering around -30 only 20 games in.

Not all goals against are created equal. It could be a blown assignment by a defenseman. It could be an ENG, it could be a laugher by the goalie. I want to see numbers where McDavid and Drai are directly culpable.

My point is this star-blaming has been going on since the DoD started. This stuff precludes McDavid because the team is built in a way where defense is secondary. It's been that way long before McDavid even played major junior, and it will probably continue long after he leaves because the Oilers would rather lose games than admit the way they do things is incorrect.

 

[Reasonable Oil Fan]

Not all goals against are created equal. It could be a blown assignment by a defenseman. It could be an ENG, it could be a laugher by the goalie. I want to see numbers where McDavid and Drai are directly culpable.

My point is this star-blaming has been going on since the DoD started. This stuff precludes McDavid because the team is built in a way where defense is secondary. It's been that way long before McDavid even played major junior, and it will probably continue long after he leaves because the Oilers would rather lose games than admit the way they do things is incorrect.

Agreed
That’s the crux of the matter
I was trying to point out that it’s a team issue. I consider the +/- stat to be useless for that reason (it lacks context), UNLESS it’s extreme. For example, an individual being +40 indicates consistent offensive contributions while exhibiting defensive responsibility. In our case, -30 as a team, 20 games in (while for the most part of that time having Kane in the lineup) is pointing towards a troubling trend. There’s a good chance that number gets worse going forward

 

[Stoneman89]

Biggest coach killers so far have been the GM's and presidents of this organization.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Biggest coach killers so far have been the GM's and presidents of this organization.

This is the correct answer. How many off-ice employees would you say are doing their jobs to an acceptable degree?

 

[Not Canada Drai]

I read the title as "coach kittens", I need to seek help.

 

[GOilers88]

Never mind past the first round, even past the first ten picks (and even then lol Yakupov and Puljujaarvi) their drafting is abysmal. MPS couldn't crack it, Yamamoto looks toast already, Bouchard is suffering some heavy sophmore slump, Holloway is being terribly underutilized but is also still making bad mistakes... Klefbom and Eberle were good picks but now we have nothing to show for either of them.

Management successfully turned most of the decade of darkness into nothing. Nothing left from Hall, Eberle, Petry, MPS, Yakupov, Gagner, Cogliano.... Remember how we were so thin at center that we had to try Hall at center? Now we have the best center depth in the league that we can't use because we are so bereft of top 6 wingers. If these idiots didn't luck out by getting McDavid I suspect Katz would've done the thing he should've done a long time ago and clean house.

Drafting is a crapshoot and yet we still manage to come up empty. We're so bad I almost miss the days of "Stu the Magnificent". Ho how naive we were back then...

I’ve seen you bring up Yakupov and Nuge, now JP recently as bad drafting. How many GM’s would have gone off the board and not drafted the consensus number 1’s in Yak and Nuge? That’s pretty massive hindsight there. JP I can get on board with because they didn’t even really scout or interview him.

You’re like the most unhappy, hate the team poster I’ve ever seen, but despite all the apathetic and not worth my time posts you make you still come back time and again to let everyone know how much you still don’t care.

Find a f***in hobby, man.

 

[frag2]

I’ve seen you bring up Yakupov and Nuge, now JP recently as bad drafting. How many GM’s would have gone off the board and not drafted the consensus number 1’s in Yak and Nuge? That’s pretty massive hindsight there. JP I can get on board with because they didn’t even really scout or interview him.

You’re like the most unhappy, hate the team poster I’ve ever seen, but despite all the apathetic and not worth my time posts you make you still come back time and again to let everyone know how much you still don’t care.

Find a f***in hobby, man.

Couldn't have said it better myself. I'm not the most positive at times but I know when it's time to take a break from all this.

 

[GOilers88]

Couldn't have said it better myself. I'm not the most positive at times but I know when it's time to take a break from all this.

He totally disappeared after making a ridiculous thread on the mains about the Oilers not making the playoffs and being losers last year. Now the team is struggling and he’s back in every thread making a post every hour. It’s insane.

If you disappear when the team is doing well and have nothing good to say, ever, you should be booted for continuously shit posting whenever the team struggles. Like clearly there’s no intention of having any real, worthwhile discussion at all and you’re here strictly to troll. It’s so blatantly obvious.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

I’ve seen you bring up Yakupov and Nuge, now JP recently as bad drafting. How many GM’s would have gone off the board and not drafted the consensus number 1’s in Yak and Nuge? That’s pretty massive hindsight there. JP I can get on board with because they didn’t even really scout or interview him.

You’re like the most unhappy, hate the team poster I’ve ever seen, but despite all the apathetic and not worth my time posts you make you still come back time and again to let everyone know how much you still don’t care.

Find a f***in hobby, man.

I don't particularly care if you want to insult me, but at least get what I say right. I didn't say RNH was a bad draft choice. I said he's not a franchise changing talent and the Oilers have consistently failed to supplement this team with picks in the later rounds panning out. They pegged him as a franchise center from the get-go and never eased him into the team. I like Nuge, I think he'd be probably the best 3rd line center in the league if they could ever flex their center depth. Using Nuge as an example of the Oilers drafting prowess is... well like, good job on not screwing up on a gimme putt I guess?

He totally disappeared after making a ridiculous thread on the mains about the Oilers not making the playoffs and being losers last year. Now the team is struggling and he’s back in every thread making a post every hour. It’s insane.

If you disappear when the team is doing well and have nothing good to say, ever, you should be booted for continuously shit posting whenever the team struggles. Like clearly there’s no intention of having any real, worthwhile discussion at all and you’re here strictly to troll. It’s so blatantly obvious.

Bans are a thing. And that you still haven't figured out the reason for my "Oilers suck" thread is funny to me.

Of course, you fail to mention that I actually liked Holland's moves in the offseason. I thought he finally shored up the goaltending and the forward depth was finally secure.

I was wrong.

All I'm gonna say is if you're happy with the team right now then good for you. I prefer not to be out of a playoff spot.

 

[GOilers88]

I don't particularly care if you want to insult me, but at least get what I say right. I didn't say RNH was a bad draft choice. I said he's not a franchise changing talent and the Oilers have consistently failed to supplement this team with picks in the later rounds panning out. They pegged him as a franchise center from the get-go and never eased him into the team. I like Nuge, I think he'd be probably the best 3rd line center in the league if they could ever flex their center depth. Using Nuge as an example of the Oilers drafting prowess is... well like, good job on not screwing up on a gimme putt I guess?


Bans are a thing. And that you still haven't figured out the reason for my "Oilers suck" thread is funny to me.

Of course, you fail to mention that I actually liked Holland's moves in the offseason. I thought he finally shored up the goaltending and the forward depth was finally secure.

I was wrong.

All I'm gonna say is if you're happy with the team right now then good for you. I prefer not to be out of a playoff spot.

It’s not an insult. It’s an observation. You only show up and post en masse when the team struggles, and you vanish when things go well.

Not even going to argue about being out of a playoff spot with 62 games to go. Absurdity.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

It’s not an insult. It’s an observation. You only show up and post en masse when the team struggles, and you vanish when things go well.

Not even going to argue about being out of a playoff spot with 62 games to go. Absurdity.

You know the further you fall behind the harder it is to get back. This isn't a case where the team is just snake-bitten, they have among the worst ES stats in the entire league. They are once again getting no depth scoring, and their star goaltender's stats are frighteningly bad.

They shouldn't miss the playoffs but the red flags are starting to raise about this team. I'm not saying go full nuclear but there is plenty of reason for concern. If you're not at least a little bit concerned then that's you.

 

[Sheikyerbouti]

Drai has spent most of the season skating in circles waiting for a breakout

I would bench a literal child on my son's house league team for that

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

Drai has spent most of the season skating in circles waiting for a breakout

I would bench a literal child on my son's house league team for that

Have you seen the breakout Woody has employed this year?

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

Last night post game article by Spec nails it;

It began right after puck drop, as a notoriously slow-starting Oilers team walked out of their dressing room like a guy greeting the morning sun out at the lake, wearing a bathrobe and slippers, a big cup of coffee in their collective hand.

Sleepy?

Edmonton has earned its reputation for being positively comatose to start games. It goes back to the Dave Tippett years, and no — it’s not getting any better.

“We come in here and we talk about it every day. We sit here after the game, talk about it over, and over, and over ... ,” began assistant captain Darnell Nurse. “We want to have good starts each and every night. But, you know, we're sitting here and it's a part of our game. We're almost a quarter of the way through the season.

“The more we just talk away and pester at it. ... We need to just show up and play. Relax, pin our ears back and come out on the attack.”

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Gagner, Cogliano, and Nilsson couldn't get it done because they couldn't play defense.
Hall, RNH, and Eberle couldn't get it done because they couldn't play defense.
McDavid, Draisatl, and Nurse couldn't get it done because they couldn't play defense.

The call is coming from inside the house.

 

[Oilhawks]

Last night post game article by Spec nails it;

It began right after puck drop, as a notoriously slow-starting Oilers team walked out of their dressing room like a guy greeting the morning sun out at the lake, wearing a bathrobe and slippers, a big cup of coffee in their collective hand.

Sleepy?

Edmonton has earned its reputation for being positively comatose to start games. It goes back to the Dave Tippett years, and no — it’s not getting any better.

“We come in here and we talk about it every day. We sit here after the game, talk about it over, and over, and over ... ,” began assistant captain Darnell Nurse. “We want to have good starts each and every night. But, you know, we're sitting here and it's a part of our game. We're almost a quarter of the way through the season.

“The more we just talk away and pester at it. ... We need to just show up and play. Relax, pin our ears back and come out on the attack.”

 

[K1984]

Last night post game article by Spec nails it;

It began right after puck drop, as a notoriously slow-starting Oilers team walked out of their dressing room like a guy greeting the morning sun out at the lake, wearing a bathrobe and slippers, a big cup of coffee in their collective hand.

Sleepy?

Edmonton has earned its reputation for being positively comatose to start games. It goes back to the Dave Tippett years, and no — it’s not getting any better.

“We come in here and we talk about it every day. We sit here after the game, talk about it over, and over, and over ... ,” began assistant captain Darnell Nurse. “We want to have good starts each and every night. But, you know, we're sitting here and it's a part of our game. We're almost a quarter of the way through the season.

“The more we just talk away and pester at it. ... We need to just show up and play. Relax, pin our ears back and come out on the attack.”

Either the players don't recognize it's a problem or they are too dumb to understand what they need to do to solve it. I'm leaning towards the latter.

The refusing to shoot until approximately the 7 min mark of the 1st is a real thing that this team does that is so infuriating I don't know where to begin. The sad thing last night is that they actually won the first 2/3 shifts of the game. Did they shoot though? Hell no. I believe it was the first shift of the game where we turned one over in their end and it flipped to a quick 3 on 2 with McDavid, Drai and Nurse I believe. Did we shoot? You better believe we didn't. Went to Connor who had a look, then back to Leon who had a look, then a back pass from Leon to Nurse for a blocked shot. Dumb. So f***ing dumb.

If the players on this team recognized the issues with the starts they would come out with the mentality of "fire everything on goal, we need to shoot to build momentum," but they don't. They try and highlight reel it for the first 12-15 mins of every first period and then wonder why they don't produce squat. That's on every player on the roster and McDavid and Leon might be the worst culprits honestly.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I read the title as "coach kittens", I need to seek help.

I actually saw that too. Just so you're not the only one. Because Woodcroft is a kitten. He's incapable of standing up to the team and reading the riot act. He explains away even putrid performances. He's not honest and he lacks balls. A struggling Caps club that are the worst team in the league on the road had 49sog in the first 49 mins of the game. Thats on pace for a record breaking 60sog which would be a franchise record, the type you don't want.

We dont' have coaches right now and thus the players and team have no accountability and nothing being called out.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

I actually saw that too. Just so you're not the only one. Because Woodcroft is a kitten. He's incapable of standing up to the team and reading the riot act. He explains away even putrid performances. He's not honest and he lacks balls. A struggling Caps club that are the worst team in the league on the road had 49sog in the first 49 mins of the game. Thats on pace for a record breaking 60sog which would be a franchise record, the type you don't want.

We dont' have coaches right now and thus the players and team have no accountability and nothing being called out.

Maybe the management could assemble a competent group of NHL forwards and defensemen, but I guess that's too much to ask.

The coach killers are the brass, ladies and gentlemen. You could go back to the 2007 season and still see the same shit.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Maybe the management could assemble a competent group of NHL forwards and defensemen, but I guess that's too much to ask.

The coach killers are the brass, ladies and gentlemen. You could go back to the 2007 season and still see the same shit.

its not mutually exclusive. Bad managent hires the wrong coaches. Its not complicated. So that its both.

The players we had dressed could beat the present day Washington Capitals but have instead lost both games because OV and company just dig deeper in the games.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

its not mutually exclusive. Bad managent hires the wrong coaches. Its not complicated. So that its both.

The players we had dressed could beat the present day Washington Capitals but have instead lost both games because OV and company just dig deeper in the games.

The players are ass. The defense is a monumental joke. I don't think Woodcroft is a great coach by any means but you can't win a game of chess when you only have pawns and one queen at your disposal. The mentality of the Oilers hasn't changed one iota since the days following the Cup run, all out offense and worry about defense later. The same problems this team has today are the same they had 15 years ago. Guess what hasn't changed since then?

 

[Drivesaitl]

The players are ass. The defense is a monumental joke. I don't think Woodcroft is a great coach by any means but you can't win a game of chess when you only have pawns and one queen at your disposal. The mentality of the Oilers hasn't changed one iota since the days following the Cup run, all out offense and worry about defense later. The same problems this team has today are the same they had 15 years ago. Guess what hasn't changed since then?

Woodcroft has better players and roster available than Tippett had for his entire duration here and who had the team in the playoffs and a winning record every season.

Plus in the Chess analogy the Oilers have two Queens. One of the pawns was promoted, Drai.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

I actually saw that too. Just so you're not the only one. Because Woodcroft is a kitten. He's incapable of standing up to the team and reading the riot act. He explains away even putrid performances. He's not honest and he lacks balls. A struggling Caps club that are the worst team in the league on the road had 49sog in the first 49 mins of the game. Thats on pace for a record breaking 60sog which would be a franchise record, the type you don't want.

We dont' have coaches right now and thus the players and team have no accountability and nothing being called out.

Last nights post game presser by Woody was a near Soviet era style of truth defiance.

Doody was asked not once but 3 times on the shot differential and attempted to explain it away by stating the shot differential was because of volume shooting by Washington and that the game was a 3-2 game which they lost on 1 critical mistake (Bouchard).

Then Tychkowski made the real point that Woody had no answer to, that you can only volume shoot when you are allowed to gain the zone and access rebounds.

Had the nerve to say repeatedly there was a stat out there that the Oilers score first more than their opponent which is patently untrue, and there was another mystery stat that the Oilers score in the 1st 2 minutes of periods more than any team in the league.

He fumbled through the entire presser rather than taking some responsibility that his game planning and personnel decisions this year has been utter garbage. He was looking for other excuses the entire press conference to explain away what could have been a complete 8-2 blowout if Skinner didn't deliver his best performance of the year.

Doody needs to be sent to some children's show, not coaching a pro NHL team which is utterly reliant on 2 players to win hockey games right now.

The players are ass. The defense is a monumental joke. I don't think Woodcroft is a great coach by any means but you can't win a game of chess when you only have pawns and one queen at your disposal. The mentality of the Oilers hasn't changed one iota since the days following the Cup run, all out offense and worry about defense later. The same problems this team has today are the same they had 15 years ago. Guess what hasn't changed since then?

We have multiple issues at management, coaching and player personnel. That said a good coach adapts and plans a game system that neutralizes your opponents strengths and takes advantage of your own. Woody completely failed to do that last night in every aspect of the game, and we have seen this show time and time again in our losses.

He is simply not the right coach for this team, in particular when you have Barry Trotz just sitting there twiddling his thumbs.

 

[Reasonable Oil Fan]

"The coach killers are the brass, ladies and gentlemen. You could go back to the 2007 season and still see the same shit."

I'm starting to think that "the higher ups" have an idea of what they want "Oiler hockey" to look like. High scoring 6-5 type of stuff.
And
They "decree" it be coached that way.
We've gone through some pretty good coaches over the last few years.
That type of hockey doesn't work in todays game. For crying out loud, we have the best player in the world and another terrific forward on this team and we are "middle of the pack" at best.
it scares me to think what we'd be looking at if we hadn't won the lottery.
and
We have wasted a lot of McDavids years with little solid progress.