Coach Boughner

[Asheville]

I figured the 5-straight wins would prove to everyone how critical good goaltending is to this team's success. The only difference between then and now is Lu finally broke down from being overworked off an injury (which I supported and still do [there's no trusting anyone else in the organization])/wheels are coming off. This is his last season as anything resembling a No. 1, so I'm all for running him into the ground. Plus, not enough attention is being paid to the quality of opponents we've beaten for our last 6 wins. Even the two curb stompings (Columbus, Tampa Bay [each top-2 in their divisions]) made sense.

 

[KW]

Eye test and stats have proven you wrong l. Next

Incorrect.

 

[RogerRoger]

Call up Monty to see what he can do while we trade a prospect/picks (not the first) to find a goalie and give up anyone not named hepo or borg. Timing wise: ASAP

Who would trade a starting caliber goalie at the moment? Imo, there's only Miller, Stalock, Lehner available that would be a good upgrade. Sparks would be an interesting target, but I doubt the Leafs would want to trade him.

 

[RainingRats]

Who would trade a starting caliber goalie at the moment? Imo, there's only Miller, Stalock, Lehner available that would be a good upgrade. Sparks would be an interesting target, but I doubt the Leafs would want to trade him.

I’m not sure which is why we should give Monty a shot. That’s Tallon’s job to figure out who else we might be able to acquire. Maybe there is another Sateri out there.

 

[Gizmo Tkachuk]

Schneider on a "change of scenery" deal?

I don't know.

Call up Monty, I don't care anymore.

 

[iam76]

id rather leave him down.. Take the Carter Hart approach.

 

[letsgrowcactus]

Schneider on a "change of scenery" deal?

I don't know.

Call up Monty, I don't care anymore.

He's signed until 2021/22, has been meh the past two years and outright terrible this year and he's paid 6 mill a year. It would have to be a Schneider for Reimer trade and even then I'd probably pass.

I wonder if Detroit could be persuaded to part with Howard, but he's injury-prone and it sounds like they want to keep him anyway so probably no deal.

We need a solution though. This team has zero trust in Reimer/Hutchinson and understandably so. You can't play like that.

 

[zeroG]

The team is playing well except for the goalies. That’s why.

i don't agree.

and neither do the coach or the GM, who have both complained about the same general thing - players not taking care of the puck.

i bet everyone would grant you that a goaltender on top of his game would have salvaged a win or two. maybe that puts us middle of the pack on the outside looking in vs at the bottom of the conference?

we aren't playing well enough.

 

[vendetta]

i don't agree.

and neither do the coach or the GM, who have both complained about the same general thing - players not taking care of the puck.

i bet everyone would grant you that a goaltender on top of his game would have salvaged a win or two. maybe that puts us middle of the pack on the outside looking in vs at the bottom of the conference?

we aren't playing well enough.

Lol. A win or two

 

[RainingRats]

i don't agree.

and neither do the coach or the GM, who have both complained about the same general thing - players not taking care of the puck.

i bet everyone would grant you that a goaltender on top of his game would have salvaged a win or two. maybe that puts us middle of the pack on the outside looking in vs at the bottom of the conference?

we aren't playing well enough.

They’re not going to throw the goalies under the bus but they’ve stunk. No reason we can’t improve other parts of our games.

We would have a few more wins. Not one or two.

 

[FinlandPanther]

Who would trade a starting caliber goalie at the moment? Imo, there's only Miller, Stalock, Lehner available that would be a good upgrade. Sparks would be an interesting target, but I doubt the Leafs would want to trade him.

Sparks is garbage please god no.

 

[RogerRoger]

Lol. A win or two

Yeah, average goaltending would give us 9 less goals against statistically speaking). We'd have a positive goal ratio. So definitely more than a game or two.

 

[ucanthanzalthetruth]

Games where Florida lost points due to bad goaltending:

Oct 11 vs CBJ (1-2 points)
Oct 20 vs Detroit (1 point)
Oct 23 vs NYR (1-2 points)
Nov 17 vs NYR (1-2 points)
Nov 24 vs CHI (1 point)

I didn't include the Philly game because Hutch was hung out to dry, and the Carolina game was bad but they were outplayed.

I also didn't include games like the Canucks or Jets game where the goaltending was just ok but where good goaltending probably gets them points. The above list is just when they've been pure trash.

 

[letsgrowcactus]

Anyone with access to TheAthletic - can you tell us what they write about the coaching situation?

 

[pantherbot]

Anyone with access to TheAthletic - can you tell us what they write about the coaching situation?

Basically that multiple sources in the organization say there is no talk about replacing him.

Boughner's quote. "The pressure that's there is internal, pressure we put in ourselves. I'm not getting any pressure from anywhere else. Vinnie has been unbelievable; Dale has been unbelievable. We're trying to stay positive as heck because we have to get through this. But it comes with the territory. We all know that. You can make all the excuses you want, but we all know - at the end of the day, it's about wins and losses. That's the bottom line."

So basically there's no pressure from management despite significant underperforming. Tallon also goes on to talk about the schedule and the injuries, basically citing excuses as to why they suck. Saying there is "no external pressure whatsoever" .

This team management is so passive. Why can't there ever be any balance. Used to be knee jerk reactions. Now it's just sit back and watch the train wreck unfold. I just don't get it.

I really hope I'm wrong and that just letting things unfold will work out. I just have basically zero confidence in the goalies especially plus the defence and coaching.

 

[Haj]

Basically that multiple sources in the organization say there is no talk about replacing him.

Boughner's quote. "The pressure that's there is internal, pressure we put in ourselves. I'm not getting any pressure from anywhere else. Vinnie has been unbelievable; Dale has been unbelievable. We're trying to stay positive as heck because we have to get through this. But it comes with the territory. We all know that. You can make all the excuses you want, but we all know - at the end of the day, it's about wins and losses. That's the bottom line."

So basically there's no pressure from management despite significant underperforming. Tallon also goes on to talk about the schedule and the injuries, basically citing excuses as to why they suck. Saying there is "no external pressure whatsoever" .

This team management is so passive. Why can't there ever be any balance. Used to be knee jerk reactions. Now it's just sit back and watch the train wreck unfold. I just don't get it.

I really hope I'm wrong and that just letting things unfold will work out. I just have basically zero confidence in the goalies especially plus the defence and coaching.

I hope I am wrong too, but Boughner has coached 100 games, and that should be a good enough sample size to figure out how good he and his staff are.

 

[RogerRoger]

This team management is so passive. Why can't there ever be any balance. Used to be knee jerk reactions. Now it's just sit back and watch the train wreck unfold. I just don't get it.

I really hope I'm wrong and that just letting things unfold will work out. I just have basically zero confidence in the goalies especially plus the defence and coaching.

Are you actually expecting them to publicly put pressure on the coach and the GM after the debacle with Gallant where they were publicly involved and got thrashed for it?
You can bet that there is pressure on them from management and you can bet that they won't go public with it like last time.

 

[pantherbot]

Are you actually expecting them to publicly put pressure on the coach and the GM after the debacle with Gallant where they were publicly involved and got thrashed for it?
You can bet that there is pressure on them from management and you can bet that they won't go public with it like last time.

I don't expect them to come out and publicly trash them. But their statements are so passive. How about "We need to win now. We came into this season with high expectations and we aren't meeting them. Of course there's pressure to win, but we also understand this is a process that takes time and we'll get there with this group." Not "There's so pressure from anyone. We won't make any excuses... But we had a bad schedule and injuries."

 

[RogerRoger]

I don't expect them to come out and publicly trash them. But their statements are so passive. How about "We need to win now. We came into this season with high expectations and we aren't meeting them. Of course there's pressure to win, but we also understand this is a process that takes time and we'll get there with this group." Not "There's so pressure from anyone. We won't make any excuses... But we had a bad schedule and injuries."

What did the Blackhawks owner say before Q was fired?

 

[pantherbot]

What did the Blackhawks owner say before Q was fired?

I don't follow them closely so why don't you enlighten us? I would be shocked if anyone from the organization talked about no pressure and making up excuses.

 

[RogerRoger]

I don't follow them closely so why don't you enlighten us? I would be shocked if anyone from the organization talked about no pressure and making up excuses.

Owners of good organization don't go out publicly to put pressure on their coach and GM. So no, Wirtz didn't do any of the silly things you would have liked him to do.

 

[pantherbot]

Owners of good organization don't go out publicly to put pressure on their coach and GM. So no, Wirtz didn't do any of the silly things you would have liked him to do.

I think you misunderstood me. Nothing in my post refers to the Panthers owners except that Vinnie was mentioned in the quote. I don't expect the owners to say anything ever.

I'm referring to management, basically Tallon and Boughner, not sounding so passive and just sitting by doing nothing. They should not be talking about how there is no pressure, that's such bs given the expectations coming into the season. They should feel like they are under a lot of pressure if anything with the bad start, not making excuses about travel and injuries.

I want to see Boughner show some emotion. I want to see that he is upset with this season as much as I am. We see it all the time when teams don't do well, coaches will point blank say so in comments. I don't want to hear excuses.

I want tallon to do something to shake these guys up a bit. Make a small trade, big trade, call up somebody, whatever. Clearly there is room for improvement and these guys aren't feeling the pressure to perform. Do something before the season is done.

Again, maybe I'll be proven wrong by the end of the season. Maybe Lu finds the fountain of youth again, Reimer plays like an NHL goalie, the d plays d, and we get into playoffs. But the chances of this team right now to make playoffs are not good, less than 50%, and I think something needs to be done to shake these guys up

 

[RogerRoger]

I'm referring to management, basically Tallon and Boughner, not sounding so passive and just sitting by doing nothing. They should not be talking about how there is no pressure, that's such bs given the expectations coming into the season. They should feel like they are under a lot of pressure if anything with the bad start, not making excuses about travel and injuries.

I want to see Boughner show some emotion. I want to see that he is upset with this season as much as I am. We see it all the time when teams don't do well, coaches will point blank say so in comments. I don't want to hear excuses.

I want tallon to do something to shake these guys up a bit. Make a small trade, big trade, call up somebody, whatever. Clearly there is room for improvement and these guys aren't feeling the pressure to perform. Do something before the season is done.

Again, maybe I'll be proven wrong by the end of the season. Maybe Lu finds the fountain of youth again, Reimer plays like an NHL goalie, the d plays d, and we get into playoffs. But the chances of this team right now to make playoffs are not good, less than 50%, and I think something needs to be done to shake these guys up

They should feel like they are under a lot of pressure

I guess that's where we differ. You seem to think that until Tallon and Boughner come out and say "we are under a lot of pressure to make the playoffs" that they don't feel like they are under a lot of pressure. I think they know they are under a lot of pressure and they can't come out and say anything about it exactly because they are under a lot of pressure and really close to getting the ax.
If they come out and say that there is pressure from the owner, it's as if the owners came out and said it. I for one don't miss the days of "hockey expert", Tom Rowe or the expansion draft debacle. Involved ownership is how this team got f***ed and you want Tallon and Boughner to say that ownership is once again involved...please let me delusion myself thinking that ownership learned their lessons.

Tallon knows he won't get the chance to hire a new coach. So he can't come out and blame Boughner. Boughner needs the support of the players. If he loses the room, the team will lose a few in a row and he's out. So what do you want them to say?

The only reasonable course of action if the same lame excuses until they turn it around or they get fired.

Tallon could come out and say that he wants to trade players, but do you actually want him to publicly sound so desperate? I'm sure he'd get great offers...

Borg or someone will get call up if they start losing again, I'm not too worried about that. Heck, Hunt has been called up recently.

 

[vendetta]

Basically that multiple sources in the organization say there is no talk about replacing him.

Boughner's quote. "The pressure that's there is internal, pressure we put in ourselves. I'm not getting any pressure from anywhere else. Vinnie has been unbelievable; Dale has been unbelievable. We're trying to stay positive as heck because we have to get through this. But it comes with the territory. We all know that. You can make all the excuses you want, but we all know - at the end of the day, it's about wins and losses. That's the bottom line."

So basically there's no pressure from management despite significant underperforming. Tallon also goes on to talk about the schedule and the injuries, basically citing excuses as to why they suck. Saying there is "no external pressure whatsoever" .

This team management is so passive. Why can't there ever be any balance. Used to be knee jerk reactions. Now it's just sit back and watch the train wreck unfold. I just don't get it.

I really hope I'm wrong and that just letting things unfold will work out. I just have basically zero confidence in the goalies especially plus the defence and coaching.

It’s awesome and I love it. This is why fans are clueless. All the factors cited are valid reasons. They aren’t excuses. They are valid reasons that have a massive impact on the team. Fans will never understand cause they are too emotionally invested. Too much going on to determine win loss record.

 

[Haj]

It’s awesome and I love it. This is why fans are clueless. All the factors cited are valid reasons. They aren’t excuses. They are valid reasons that have a massive impact on the team. Fans will never understand cause they are too emotionally invested. Too much going on to determine win loss record.

I think your criticism is fair. However, here is my criticism of this coaching staff:

1. Does not field optimal rosters. Does not use bottom six spots to develop young players. Instead relies on low upside veterans, which leads to depth scoring issues.

2. Offensive system priortizes shots from the point instead of maining puck possesion to eventually create a shot of a royal road pass.

3. Team goes through stretches where they can't manage the puck, puck is not moved quickly enough.

4. Gap control through Neutral Zone is poor, which allowes easy zone entries.

5. Defensive system appears to be predicated on gaining puck possesion as quickly as possible, as a result defensemen leave the front of the net too quickly, resulting in high danger chances against.

6. Breakouts and forechecking appear to be one-dimensional, easy for the opposition to adjust for.

7. Power Play units only have a couple of options shot from point, cross-ice one timer. Does not appear to emphasize puck movement to expliot seams in opposition PK e.g. Washington Capitals or Tampa Bay powerplay.

8. Penalty kill appears to emphasize taking away point shot from center blue line, which opens up cross-ice seam pass.

I believe the jekyll and hyde nature of this team is because of the above reasons. Winning purely based on roster talent is not sustainable unless you are the late 80s Oilers, early 80s Islanders, or 70s Canadiens, and even those teams had good coaching.

I would not call for Boughner to be fired without a clear upgrade avaiable (Quenville). Firing a coach just for the sake of it and replacing him with another average coach is a bad idea, but when there is a clear upgrade available with Cup winning pedigree, it has to be done.