Coach Boughner

[GrumpyKelly]

I'm not calling for his head since they will never axe him after just hiring him, not to mention pay the guy for sitting at home as a budget team. But the team is looking possibly even more disorganized than last year. This may have been acceptable before but now, with this core, they should not be looking towards the draft lottery in November. Not anymore.

Couple of points:

1. I refuse to believe our guys are just flat out terrible suddenly playing defense. I mean for crying out loud they played better defense under Rowe.

2. This system of coach Boughner is so far away from being anything that resembles a winning formula that I can't see it working. Ever. Not with this group of guys. They may win some games in a glorious fashion but does anyone think THIS is the style the team was built to play and win with? How long are the owners/front office going to watch this? Because the wheels are clearly coming off.

3. Boughner's post game was a good way to lose the locker room and fast, what a moron.



Saying that they lose as a team and then throwing Reimer under the bus. Wtf? Why single one guy out in this mess. He looks confused to begin with but saying stuff like we played 15 min really well and then making up excuses for the rest of the game, looks to me he is way over his head.

Biggest issue for me is that he clearly says they are fine exchanging chances. That to indicates this is the system he will use and go down with. I can’t see any changes coming.

Since they can't change the players (would changing one or two guys even make a difference) and I have no idea what kind of players would even be needed to make this system work, what solutions are available? Do we just have to accept to have a season like Colorado had with Bednar last year and just ride it out while being terrible?

Click to read more...

 

[Jean Luc Discard]

Saying that they lose as a team and then throwing Reimer under the bus. Wtf?

Because the reason for the losses is on everyone except him. /s

 

[Ryuji Yamazaki]

I mean, what did people expect after 12 games?

And this whole “oh Gallant should still be here...I wish we had Gallant...” is nonsense. Honestly, his coaching probably lost our first round to the Islanders.

 

[Jean Luc Discard]

I mean, what did people expect after 12 games?

And this whole “oh Gallant should still be here...I wish we had Gallant...” is nonsense. Honestly, his coaching probably lost our first round to the Islanders.

Ppl will be talking about the good ol' days of GG, Guds and Kulikov for the next decade. Suddenly GG is in the same category of insta-fix coaches with Babcock, Sullivan and Quenneville. The delusion of 15-16 campaign will never evaporate.

 

[RainingRats]

Why do you refuse to believe that our players are suddenly playing terrible? Matheson is being asked to play top 4 minutes. He's struggled. Sophomore slumps are real. For the first half of last season, he wasn't good. Pysyk has been struggling too which is surprising but he was playing less minutes last year. Petrovic suddenly plays with little intensity and hasn't been good either. That's half the D. That will sink your D if you have that many under performers. Throw in two rookies and you have a recipe for disaster on D. Maybe expectations were too high for the D men? Boughner doesn't have many options. He should scratch Matheson though.

The PK is on Bougner but Tallon traded away one unit that helped this team become an elite PK last year. New PK is a mess, the system doesn't work. That's on Boughner. Keeping MacK who sucks on the PK, on the PK is on Boughner. Fix the PK and things will look better and start heading in the right direction.

Goaltending has been mediocre at key times. Instead of a big save to keep the game tied like against Pitt when Petro blew his coverage, we gave up a goal. The goalie on the other end of the ice made big saves. We lose. @Brokin and I were very concerned about goaltending this year and it's hard to say it's a strength. D coverage is bad but there are plenty of weak goals that are going in.

The bottom 6 forward depth is crap and that hurts us 5 on 5. Boughner only has so much to work with.

Leadership appears to be nonexistent. I think MacK should have lost the C, it's clear this team has no leadership. They're weak and collapse too easily. This is on Boughner. A new coach had an opportunity to put the C on someone else and he didn't. Too much respect for a guy who shouldn't be in the NHL anymore. But who signed MacK to that extension? Really stupid contract.

The system is only as good as the players. He's using a similar if not exact system that was employed in San Jose. If our players can't handle this system then coaching should make adjustments.

I think fans read too much into post game comments. It's an easy thing to attack. Much bigger issues right now with coaching than what he says off the cuff.

Overall, Boughner has messed up this team by putting in a horrible PK system. That's the root of a lot of our problems and shifts in game momentum almost instantly. You can feel it in the GDTs, I'm sure the players feel it too. Refusing to take MacK off the PK is horrible coaching, especially for a guy who watches a lot of video and supposedly does his homework. Fix the PK and other good things will come from it.

Our coverage in our zone is abysmal at times and we turn the puck over too much but how much is that on coaching? People complained about Rowe last year not knowing how to coach, now it's Boughner. Maybe the players should learn how to play basic defense and make the correct play, instead of making individual stupid mistakes all the time. Blind back hand passes in their own zone, soft clears, not covering your man, not having your head on a swivel, not supporting your teammates, not trusting your teammates, not winning battles, not getting the puck in deep, not making lazy plays in the neutral zone, not turning the puck over trying to make a cute play inside the opponent's blue line. These are the exact same mistakes we were making last year but they're going in our net a lot more. The players need to stop with all these stupid stupid plays. Coaching is absolutely part of that but a lot of this is on the players. When Trocheck makes a blind drop pass as he enters the offensive blue line, that's not on coaching. They don't tell him to do that. When Matheson doesn't cover the front of the net, that's not on coaching. When McCoshen gets beat cleanly out of the corner, that's not on coaching. When Reimer gives up a soft goal, that's not on coaching.

 

[RainingRats]

Ppl will be talking about the good ol' days of GG, Guds and Kulikov for the decade. Suddenly GG is in the same category of insta-fix coaches with Babcock, Sullivan and Quenneville. The delusion of 15-16 campaign will never evaporate.

Don't forget Julien who has Montreal leading the division!

 

[PBPantherfan]

Ppl will be talking about the good ol' days of GG, Guds and Kulikov for the decade. Suddenly GG is in the same category of insta-fix coaches with Babcock, Sullivan and Quenneville. The delusion of 15-16 campaign will never evaporate.

So you prefer the last season and this season so far to the way the team was the 2 years when Gallant was here? Are you a masochist or do you want the team to move?

 

[StrangeVision]

Ppl will be talking about the good ol' days of GG, Guds and Kulikov for the decade. Suddenly GG is in the same category of insta-fix coaches with Babcock, Sullivan and Quenneville. The delusion of 15-16 campaign will never evaporate.

Yes, damn people for hanging onto that one moment in history where the Panthers looked good and looked like they were going to be something.

Silly fans.

 

[Jean Luc Discard]

Yes, damn people for hanging onto that one moment in history where the Panther looked good and looked like they were going to be something.

Silly fans.

If the water diviner is two bottom pairing dmen and a two bit coach, we didn't have a team to begin with. If the supposed superstars of the future (the recipients of 6-8 year contract extensions) are not delivering on their contracts, we need to rebuild the rebuild.

 

[TheImpatientPanther]

You can't really complain at all about our offense so he gets a check mark there. We're scoring 5 on 5, on the PP and our 1st line is top 5 for combined points. We need McCann and Brickley back, they seem to be energy/sparkplug type guys. We've lacked a bit of emotion and we saw it all boil over last night. Maybe it's better to get the blowout losses out of the way sooner in the season. All teams go through their absolute worst stretches all at different times, sucks because it's so early into a season where most will write us off as bottom 5 after 12 games and because we are notoriously bad to start the season.

The defensive system and PK have not changed, we have a ton of turnovers and it's clear we have a problem getting hemmed in when we had multiple chances to get the puck out. Teams are playing perimeter against us and just stretching everyone out, allowing for teams better players to get open in front of the net.The triangle style PK is horrid and I'd prefer the box or diamond at least.

Overall I'm going to give Boughner a longer leash, no need to fire a coach 12 games into the season, Capuano has some blame, the forwards AND defense have equal blame in our own end, we're all allowing too much time and space. Be physical! I'm not asking for Buff type hits every time but as Ekblad said, make it hard for them to play against us. Get mad! Come together as a group, get healthy and start working together to nail down the defensive details.

I give him an overall C-, still early but if we're 6-7 games under .500 come mid November, I'd expect a trade or someone getting fired, not Boughner though.
I'd probably say Tallon, he's in his 7th year here, two 1st round playoff exits in that timeline doesn't breed success, even taking into account internal cap and 2 division titles. We've had some quick flashes of brilliance during his time, the aforementioned division titles, some exciting playoff hockey, especially that game 7 nail biter loss to NJ, the 12 gamer win streak but the darkness is what we've been accustom to. He has to take a fair bit of blame for it.

 

[GrumpyKelly]

And this whole “oh Gallant should still be here...I wish we had Gallant...” is nonsense. Honestly, his coaching probably lost our first round to the Islanders.

I always get a laugh out of you complaining about our first round exit.

You do understand the irony of this when talking about a perennial loser organization such as the Panthers?

 

[StrangeVision]

If the water diviner is two bottom pairing dmen and a two bit coach, we didn't have a team to begin with. If the supposed superstars of the future (the recipients of 6-8 year contract extensions) are not delivering on their contracts, we need to rebuild the rebuild.

I'm just not going to admonish people for looking fondly on one of the few bright spots in our team's history...especially in light of the analytics revolution and the clusterf*** that followed.

I don't know if they can survive another full rebuild in South Florida.

 

[RainingRats]

You can't really complain at all about our offense so he gets a check mark there. We're scoring 5 on 5, on the PP and our 1st line is top 5 for combined points. We need McCann and Brickley back, they seem to be energy/sparkplug type guys. We've lacked a bit of emotion and we saw it all boil over last night. Maybe it's better to get the blowout losses out of the way sooner in the season. All teams go through their absolute worst stretches all at different times, sucks because it's so early into a season where most will write us off as bottom 5 after 12 games and because we are notoriously bad to start the season.

The defensive system and PK have not changed, we have a ton of turnovers and it's clear we have a problem getting hemmed in when we had multiple chances to get the puck out. Teams are playing perimeter against us and just stretching everyone out, allowing for teams better players to get open in front of the net.The triangle style PK is horrid and I'd prefer the box or diamond at least.

Overall I'm going to give Boughner a longer leash, not need to fire a coach 12 games into the season, Capuano has some blame, the forwards AND defense have equal blame in our own end, we're all allowing too much time and space. Be physical! I'm not asking for Buff type hits every time but as Ekblad said, make it hard for them to play against us. Get mad! Come together as a group, get healthy and start working together to nail down the defensive details.

I give him an overall C-, still early but if we're 6-7 games under .500 come mid November, I'd expect a trade or someone getting fired, not Boughner though.
I'd probably say Tallon, he's in his 7th year here, 2 1st round playoff exits in that timeline doesn't breed success, even taking into account internal cap and 2 division titles. We've had some quick flashes of brilliance during his time, the aforementioned division titles, some exciting playoff hockey, especially that game 7 nail biter loss to NJ, the 12 gamer win streak but the darkness is what we've been accustom to. He has to take a fair bit of blame for it.

C- is very nice of you but I agree with most of your post.

 

[Ryuji Yamazaki]

I always get a laugh out of you complaining about our first round exit.

You do understand the irony of this when talking about a perennial loser organization such as the Panthers?

And I always get a laugh out of "Division Champs". I think you guys should get that tattooed.

 

[GrumpyKelly]

You can't really complain at all about our offense so he gets a check mark there. We're scoring 5 on 5, on the PP and our 1st line is top 5 for combined points.

We are scoring because Boughner wants to play run and gun, exchange chances -style hockey. The offense is a direct result of that IMO.

I see this being a fundamental flaw, not a positive thing for this group of guys. Maybe the system would work if our defensemen had 2-3 years of more experience and wouldn't be so vulnerable to mistakes. I'm afraid the learning curve is going to be too long and steep for these guys for Boughner to see the end result work.

 

[GrumpyKelly]

And I always get a laugh out of "Division Champs". I think you guys should get that tattooed.

So you'll tattoo "perennial loser"? Ok I'll take that deal.

 

[RainingRats]

We are scoring because Boughner wants to play run and gun, exchange chances -style hockey. The offense is a direct result of that IMO.

I see this being a fundamental flaw, not a positive thing for this group of guys. Maybe the system would work if our defensemen had 2-3 years of more experience and wouldn't be so vulnerable to mistakes. I'm afraid the learning curve is going to be too long and steep for these guys for Boughner to see the end result work.

We're scoring because we're dominating play at times and we have a first line that can be elite. A lot of our goals against are from defensive zone breakdowns while the opponent has the puck, not from back and forth hockey. PK is not exchanging chances style of hockey either and that's what is sinking this team.

 

[I am not exposed]

I always get a laugh out of you complaining about our first round exit.

You do understand the irony of this when talking about a perennial loser organization such as the Panthers?

The team was on the up. We actually outplayed the Islanders overall. The previous season we had increased our point total substantially, but just missed the playoffs. The team was not perfect, but just a few tweaks were needed. Instead it was blown up to oblivion, and it will take years to fix. So bitter right now.

 

[Gentle Man]

Show of hands, anyone actually care about that Division Title? How about the one from 2011-12? Anyone? No?

Anyone think losing in the first round was a big deal? No? Oh ok.

I think what people are about is the actual PROOF of progress that was taking place.

66 ----> 92 ----> 103

Even if they overachieved, which they did, even if they didnt win the title which, again, no one gives a shit about, it's the actual progress the team was making

Dont lump up what happened last year. I dont give a f*** about shooting percentages, and PDO, or whatever the f*** excuse you use to try and downplay the PROGRESS that was taking place. There are stats, then there are eyes. The team was getting better each year.

And it took them one damn summer to f*** it all to hell.

Give me winning in a perceived "BAD" way vs this God awful, unbearable f***-up disaster we have.

 

[FlaPanthers11]

And I always get a laugh out of "Division Champs". I think you guys should get that tattooed.

You talk like winning a division is meaningless while losing in the first round is a good measure of coaching ability.

The more indicative sample to draw any relevant conclusions is the 82 game sample over the 6 game sample. The European system of awarding championships is much better in giving the trophy to the actual best team. The playoffs are such an outlier in any sport that conclusions have to be taken from the regular season.

It's like criticizing Boudreau because he happens to lose a one off game 7 every year then he goes and leads the team to another division championship.

You know what would help this team? Winning division championships.

Last point. Everyone is going to complain about "average" coach Gerard Gallant until we find another coach anywhere near as good as him. You have the right to cry for "average" when your other options are so below average that they shouldn't have an AHL job.

 

[Ryuji Yamazaki]

Then your mistake is you just would've assumed we'd continue to improve.

Once we lost Campbell it was all downhill.

 

[Ryuji Yamazaki]

You talk like winning a division is meaningless while losing in the first round is a good measure of coaching ability.

The more indicative sample to draw any relevant conclusions is the 82 game sample over the 6 game sample. The European system of awarding championships is much better in giving the trophy to the actual best team. The playoffs are such an outlier in any sport that conclusions have to be taken from the regular season.

It's like criticizing Boudreau because he happens to lose a one off game 7 every year then he goes and leads the team to another division championship.

You know what would help this team? Winning division championships.

Last point. Everyone is going to complain about "average" coach Gerard Gallant until we find another coach anywhere near as good as him. You have the right to cry for "average" when your other options are so below average that they shouldn't have an AHL job.

You can't measure Boughner on a 12 game sample either. Maybe he is garbage, maybe he's not.

 

[Gentle Man]

Then your mistake is you just would've assumed we'd continue to improve.

Once we lost Campbell it was all downhill.

It's an assumption only because they didnt let them prove themselves.

The bigger assumption was changing things would improve the team. There's no need to explain the results. They are shitting on everyone's faces.

 

[RainingRats]

Show of hands, anyone actually care about that Division Title? How about the one from 2011-12? Anyone? No?

Anyone think losing in the first round was a big deal? No? Oh ok.

I think what people are about is the actual PROOF of progress that was taking place.

66 ----> 92 ----> 103

Even if they overachieved, which they did, even if they didnt win the title which, again, no one gives a **** about, it's the actual progress the team was making

Dont lump up what happened last year. I dont give a **** about shooting percentages, and PDO, or whatever the **** excuse you use to try and downplay the PROGRESS that was taking place. There are stats, then there are eyes. The team was getting better each year.

And it took them one damn summer to **** it all to hell.

I agree, they should have forced Campbell to stay here.

People were fine with the Pysyk for Kulikov trade after his play last season. So please don't say they should have kept Kulikov for 4.3 million a year to play on the bottom pair.

Perhaps you were talking about Shaw, Pirri, or Howden? Or maybe Jokinen's anomaly 60 point season? Or Reilly Smith who was traded by Tallon for a 4th round pick?

And once again it goes back to Gudbranson.

 

[GrumpyKelly]

We're scoring because we're dominating play at times and we have a first line that can be elite. A lot of our goals against are from defensive zone breakdowns while the opponent has the puck, not from back and forth hockey.

If you look at that post game even Boughner admits that they are giving up a lot of chances. But what he is saying is that it's ok, because they are also generating equally.

So he's ok with run n gun. I see that as a fundamental flaw in the style of hockey for this group of guys. Puts too much pressure on the young and inexperienced defense.

The team was on the up. We actually outplayed the Islanders overall. The previous season we had increased our point total substantially, but just missed the playoffs. The team was not perfect, but just a few tweaks were needed. Instead it was blown up to oblivion, and it will take years to fix. So bitter right now.

Yup. It was all about heading to the right direction.