Confirmed with Link: Clearly Cleary's Contract Continually Creates Creative Controversy

[Frk It]

Not even 1 week after Babcock said they don't confuse the player with the person.

Dan Cleary's play is going to determine whether it's a right or wrong decision. The person he is gives him the upper hand; yet we think the player is still a pretty darn good player if he can skate. Now if he can't skate, he can't play."

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2014/09/mike_babcock_daniel_cleary_can.html

 

[silkyjohnson50]

Makes me sick.

I'd love nothing more than for one of these new assistants to be fearless and behind closed doors say "dude, he's ****ing awful. Open up your damn eyes."

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

Not even 1 week after Babcock said they don't confuse the player with the person.



http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2014/09/mike_babcock_daniel_cleary_can.html

That's pretty damning.

 

[Vladdy84]

Not even 1 week after Babcock said they don't confuse the player with the person.



http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2014/09/mike_babcock_daniel_cleary_can.html

PP and PK time. Will rotate between lines 2 and 3. 17 Minutes a game. It was written.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Not even 1 week after Babcock said they don't confuse the player with the person.



http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2014/09/mike_babcock_daniel_cleary_can.html

its amazing how decisive failure can breed contentment.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Not even 1 week after Babcock said they don't confuse the player with the person.



http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2014/09/mike_babcock_daniel_cleary_can.html

Well we all knew it didn't actually apply to Danny Boy.

 

[Flowah]

My god I hope that's just to cover his ass while Cleary gets 10 games then gets sat.

 

[detredWINgs]

Makes me sick.

I'd love nothing more than for one of these new assistants to be fearless and behind closed doors say "dude, he's ****ing awful. Open up your damn eyes."

I don't know. With the way Holland and Babs seem to feel about Cleary, that might get him fired.

On another note, whoever it was that questioned why the Wings even need Cleary is spot on. Babs/Holland are talking about Cleary like hes Brian Rafalski or something. If he can't skate, I'm not even sure he's a top 20 forward in this organization. But if he can skate, he might be better than Glendening or Andersson. Maybe. On what planet is that someone we need to go out of our way to retain?

 

[Vladdy84]

I don't know. With the way Holland and Babs seem to feel about Cleary, that might get him tired.

On another note, whoever it was that questioned why the Wings even need Cleary is spot on. Babs/Holland are talking about Cleary like hes Brian Rafalski or something. If he can't skate, I'm not even sure he's a top 20 forward in this organization. But if he can skate, he might be better than Glendening or Andersson. Maybe. On what planet is that someone we need to go out of our way to retain?

Nope. And Luke has about zero offensive ability.

 

[TatarTangle]

Luke can win face-offs, play physical and skate hard. None of which Cleary can do.

There's guys in beer league skates that would be a better option than Cleary, and that's no joke.

 

[Actual Thought*]

"We've had the testing done; we didn't just fall off a turnip truck," Babcock said. "We had all that done before we made any decisions and we think he can help our program."

Key word here is "we". It is key because the staff made the decision. Not just Holland. The staff felt Cleary could possibly help the team in some capacity. That means if everyone here is correct, the entire franchise is scrap and needs to be gutted to the core and rebuilt.

 

[Frk It]

"We've had the testing done; we didn't just fall off a turnip truck," Babcock said. "We had all that done before we made any decisions and we think he can help our program."

Key word here is "we". It is key because the staff made the decision. Not just Holland. The staff felt Cleary could possibly help the team in some capacity. That means if everyone here is correct, the entire franchise is scrap and needs to be gutted to the core and rebuilt.

If we think the front office has an undeserving bias (albeit, a big one) towards 1 player, that means that we collectively think the entire front office and team needs to be blown up?

Don't see how one would would draw that conclusion.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

Babcock isn't going to single one person out. Decisions are made which represent the entire organization, but that doesn't mean the entire organization feels the same way about it.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

Babcock isn't going to single one person out. Decisions are made which represent the entire organization, but that doesn't mean the entire organization feels the same way about it.

It's the royal "we." Babcock wants him because he fears he has lost the locker room and that he needs a loyal messenger.

 

[Actual Thought*]

If we think the front office has an undeserving bias (albeit, a big one) towards 1 player, that means that we collectively think the entire front office and team needs to be blown up?

Don't see how one would would draw that conclusion.

Is it at all possible that the staff actually did its' due diligence and made the correct decision based on data?

I am a Detroit sports fan. I follow the Lions, Tigers, and Wings with hockey being my favorite by a huge margin. I look at the Lions and I see what a badly managed franchise looks like. Then I look at the other 2 and as a fan I am thankful that they both have competent management with a commitment to winning. They don't win every year but nobody does. It baffles me why some of the rhetoric here implies that Holland is like Matt Millen or something. I feel lucky to have the MGT team the Wings have with Holland as GM. I view this team as a team on the rise poised for another sustained run of success. I don't understand all the pessimism. If Cleary is healthy I like what he brings and apparently the Wing's brass does too. I am not gonna bet against them.

 

[Frk It]

Is it at all possible that the staff actually did its' due diligence and made the correct decision based on data?

I am a Detroit sports fan. I follow the Lions, Tigers, and Wings with hockey being my favorite by a huge margin. I look at the Lions and I see what a badly managed franchise looks like. Then I look at the other 2 and as a fan I am thankful that they both have competent management with a commitment to winning. They don't win every year but nobody does. It baffles me why some of the rhetoric here implies that Holland is like Matt Millen or something. I feel lucky to have the MGT team the Wings have with Holland as GM. I view this team as a team on the rise poised for another sustained run of success. I don't understand all the pessimism. If Cleary is healthy I like what he brings and apparently the Wing's brass does too. I am not gonna bet against them.

There is not much, if any, objectivity when it comes to assessing Dan Cleary. For whatever reason.

If anyone else had the season Cleary has they'd be gone. He gets preferential treatment he does not deserve. No amount of poor play or poor health could keep him from getting a contract.

You're coming from an honest point of view if you were going to logically and objectively assess somrone. I don't think they are capable of that with Cleary. There's a good amount of backstory to support this.

 

[Huddy*]

Is it at all possible that the staff actually did its' due diligence and made the correct decision based on data?

I am a Detroit sports fan. I follow the Lions, Tigers, and Wings with hockey being my favorite by a huge margin. I look at the Lions and I see what a badly managed franchise looks like. Then I look at the other 2 and as a fan I am thankful that they both have competent management with a commitment to winning. They don't win every year but nobody does. It baffles me why some of the rhetoric here implies that Holland is like Matt Millen or something. I feel lucky to have the MGT team the Wings have with Holland as GM. I view this team as a team on the rise poised for another sustained run of success. I don't understand all the pessimism. If Cleary is healthy I like what he brings and apparently the Wing's brass does too. I am not gonna bet against them.

Keyword: IF

The guy hasn't been healthy in over two + years, and when he is healthy, he has a hard time producing the points he did that warranted his contract for the past few years and now this year. Its a desperate move if things don't go well early with the kids. Yes, Ken Holland may have done an okay thing on paper, securing a veteran, but there were other players his age or few years younger, capable of providing more. His contract is brutal and that's why some dislike the move made by Ken Holland...

 

[ArGarBarGar]

Is it at all possible that the staff actually did its' due diligence and made the correct decision based on data?

What data paints Cleary in any positive light?

 

[Huddy*]

What data paints Cleary in any positive light?

that if player A rides the bench for X amount of time, player A will be warranted Y amount of ice time..

 

[Actual Thought*]

What data paints Cleary in any positive light?

When healthy he is a + player. Maybe the data says he is healthy?

 

[Actual Thought*]

There is not much, if any, objectivity when it comes to assessing Dan Cleary. For whatever reason.

If anyone else had the season Cleary has they'd be gone. He gets preferential treatment he does not deserve. No amount of poor play or poor health could keep him from getting a contract.

You're coming from an honest point of view if you were going to logically and objectively assess somrone. I don't think they are capable of that with Cleary. There's a good amount of backstory to support this.

I think they like his character. I think they like his work ethic. They believe these ingredients are helpful. They think if he is healthy he can help the team and apparently they think he is healthy. Personally I hope they are right. I like Cleary as a character and I like what he brings when he is healthy.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

When healthy he is a + player. Maybe the data says he is healthy?

What data? Regular and advanced stats say he is a net-negative player out there. He doesn't make his teammates better, he doesn't produce (in either even strength or special teams), and he was scratched at the end of last season.

He has gotten progressively worse since 2011, and there is no indication that is going to change this season.

 

[Chance on Chance]

Babcock isn't going to single one person out. Decisions are made which represent the entire organization, but that doesn't mean the entire organization feels the same way about it.

Ya I cant see him saying "Everyone buy Martin, John, Ted and Bill think he's a good guy and can help the team."

But on the other points saying well if he's healthy he can be good. He's 35 well past the prime age for forwards and he hasnt been healthy in years. Paying him 2.5 is a big risk with little reward

 

[Actual Thought*]

What data? Regular and advanced stats say he is a net-negative player out there. He doesn't make his teammates better, he doesn't produce (in either even strength or special teams), and he was scratched at the end of last season.

He has gotten progressively worse since 2011, and there is no indication that is going to change this season.

Babcock said they ran tests. Presumably they collected data from these tests. Then presumably they analyzed the data collected. In other words he appears healthy. It is well documented that he was injured the last 2 years and endured an astounding amount of pain trying to get back. If he is healthy I welcome him back.

 

[Vladdy84]

Babcock said they ran tests. Presumably they collected data from these tests. Then presumably they analyzed the data collected. In other words he appears healthy. It is well documented that he was injured the last 2 years and endured an astounding amount of pain trying to get back. If he is healthy I welcome him back.

Don't believe anything Babcock says. Even if healthy, there are much much much more talented and skilled players that should play instead.