Claude Giroux: "Reasons to be Cheerful Part III"

[kudymen]

He had a grand total of 10 minor penalties last year. You continue to just make up stuff.

He had one stick penalty today. This is the greatest recency bias I have ever seen.

 

[deadhead]

And I'll bet almost every penalty he's had the last couple years has been a "reach" penalty with the stick.
For obvious reasons, he's not going to draw a lot of interference penalties.

He also gets the "star's break" on a lot of potential stick infractions.
Giroux isn't as fast and explosive as he was in his prime, few NHL players are at 30.
And he's 5'10 185, he's not going to use his butt to protect the puck like Couts.

Like I said, it's subtle, not glaring, but Giroux is easier to pressure (see the 2017-18 playoffs), he coughed up the puck a couple times in his D-zone today.

 

[Tripod]

lol...so we should ignore that Giroux had 11 points in 11 games while Couts was struggling and it was Couts who is responsible for his good play?

 

[deadhead]

That line also had awful metrics while Couts was struggling, so maybe Giroux was a little lucky?
Scoring is stochastic, see TK, but good play is reliable (and eventually leads to scoring).

Giroux was 2-4 6 at ES the first 11 games, 3-3 6 at ES the last 5 games.
Hmmm. See a difference?

 

[Tripod]

How many ES points do you expect Giroux to get when Couts is struggling and TK is...well TK?

Odd how when 1/3 of your line starts to play better, the line plays better.

Did Couts impact Giroux's goal? No. Why is it so hard for people to give Giroux credit? Hmmm....

 

[Sombastate]

wait, the guy who is third in the league in scoring... Are we complaining about him?

 

[Young Sandwich]

Giroux looks better because Couts is playing better, that line was being dominated for a while as Couts struggled with the knee. Couts shows you that you can compensate to some extent for a lack of speed with strength and smarts, but Strome still has to learn to skate.

One thing I've noticed, the changes in the game have impact Giroux in subtle ways.
Over the last five or so years, the NHL has gotten faster, not so much the top end but the disappearance of slugs, so that everyone is now a decent skater. This has reduced the margin for error.

Moving to LW has protected Giroux, but he seems to have more "reaching" stick penalties and gets pressured into turnovers more than he used to a few years ago, less clean ice available these days. He's been able to adjust at LW b/c he doesn't skate 200 feet and can lay back and let TK chase the puck and Provorov/Ghost bring it up. His role is more of a play maker than a play driver these days.

 

[bauer]

wait, the guy who is third in the league in scoring... Are we complaining about him?

it's the same one person. he's a contrarian and needs to fight people on every little thing. he gets mad when people rag on the coach, yet he constantly rips on Giroux, who is without question one of the best Flyers ever. it makes no sense.

i mean seriously, why would any true Flyers fan rag on Giroux? he's amazing. one of the best to ever wear orange and black. you have to question a person agenda and state of mind when they're constantly trying to make up reasons for Giroux not being an elite superstar. which he is.

 

[Sombastate]

In his last 99 games, he has 124 points.

That's second to who? McDavid and maybe no one else?

This decade he is second to Crosby right? And that's it? And i don't even know how small of a lead SC has on Claude

 

[Striiker]

@mdm815 do you understand now?

 

[Rebels57]

You'd have to be one of the dumbest human beings to ever walk the Earth to not understand how good Giroux is.

 

[deadhead]

Giroux is a top scorer, but he's not the same all around player he was at 22-26.
That shouldn't be controversial, but people around here are weird.

And if you didn't see how much better the first line has played since Couts got his legs back, well, go see an optometrist. They were being dominated the first ten games of the season or so.

Couts is the key player on this team right now, Patrick will be in a couple years.
Giroux is the top play maker, and TK is the straw that stirs the drink.

 

[JXC]

28-14-11 are generating a scoring opportunity on maybe 3 of every 5 shifts together right now. They’re terrific.

 

[Sombastate]

Also, Claude is almost at a PPG in just even strength.

So, i guess he's just a PP Specialist.

 

[Striiker]

You'd have to be one of the dumbest human beings to ever walk the Earth to not understand how good Giroux is.

Apparently it’s all Couturier and Giroux has declined.

The lies people come up with...

 

[Rodu58]

Flyers centers killing it on the faceoff so far this season

 

[Jtown]

28-14-11 are generating a scoring opportunity on maybe 3 of every 5 shifts together right now. They’re terrific.

they are starting to gel. Sometimes g and tk get a bit too cute and unselfish. Sometimes on a 2 on 1 the best play is a shot on goal and a rebound.

 

[mdm815]

@Striiker in fairness i did say 50/50. Give it a few posts, could even out

 

[FlyerEra2010]

I feel like it's been pretty noticeable just on the eye test that Giroux has been our best player this year. Some games he looked on a different level than the rest of the team.

 

[SchatzY]

I feel like it's been pretty noticeable just on the eye test that Giroux has been our best player HIS CAREER. Some games he looked on a different level than the rest of the team.

Fixed it for you.

 

[StoneHands]

Moving to LW has protected Giroux, but he seems to have more "reaching" stick penalties and gets pressured into turnovers more than he used to a few years ago, less clean ice available these days.

And I'll bet almost every penalty he's had the last couple years has been a "reach" penalty with the stick.
For obvious reasons, he's not going to draw a lot of interference penalties.

That's like being surprised that Giroux scores more goals with his wrist shot than anything else. Yeah so does 90% of the league.

Giroux having more stick infraction penalties is pretty obvious and it's also true for about 90% of forwards in the NHL. It's not surprising considering the most common penalties among forwards are in order, Tripping, Slashing, Roughing, Hooking, High Sticking, Holding, Interference, Crosscheck, Holding the Stick, and then Goaltender interference. 4 of the 5 most common penalties are stick infractions so Giroux having a 9 to 5 ratio is stick infractions to non-stick infractions is not the least bit surprising and has nothing to do with his speed or skating. As far as "reaching" penalties, the only ones I would really consider to fit into that catagory are Hooking and Tripping which only 4 of his 14 penalties have been. Slashing can go either way. Sometimes it's a reach and other times it's not at all.

Among the leaders in Hooking penalties last season were Radulov and Kane. Malkin, Larkin, and Trocheck for tripping. Kuznetsov, Kessel, and Marchand for Slashing. None of those guys are slow. It's actually the slower guys that are typically called for Roughing and Crosschecking.

Giroux has 14 Minor penalties since being moved to the wing.
3 Hooks
1 Trip
5 Slashing
1 Crosscheck
1 Holding The Stick
2 Roughing
1 Interference

 

[Hiesenberg]

Giroux has turned into a perennial MVP candidate.

Deadhead: Well it's because everybody else is doing it for him.

 

[Appleyard]

I think he's currently on pace for 106 points or so, but it is still really early yet. Another 100 point season would be nuts though, and really starts to cement his HOF status as long as he doesn't collapse on the back 9.

I mean, his peak/prime is HHoF worthy for sure after last year.

He has done arguably more as an individual player at the same age relative to his era than guys like Sundin and Modano.

I think had he not played ~7 years of his prime (2010-17) in the lowest scoring era since the ~1950's he would already have a spot secured.


I mean, it would not actually be crazy for him to lead the entire NHL in scoring over the 10's decade.

Only one more season of it after this and he is currently:

2pts behind Crosby, who has not had a 90+ point season since 13-14.
6pts ahead of Kane, who is less than a year younger than him and is on a declining team.
14pts ahead of Ovechkin, who is 2.5 years older and has not hit 90+ points since 09-10.
39pts ahead of Tavares...

barring injury he could do it, even though I would not put him as odds on favourite, but after this year who knows.

 

[deadhead]

Can't really compare with Ovechkin, who's a goal scorer, not a points aggregator (scoring goals at the rate he does makes him exceptional).

I'd take Giroux over Kane and Tavares.
I'd take Crosby over Giroux.

Giroux can be a great player (careerwise) yet not be the same player he was at his peak in his early to mid-20s.
Being a top player for a decade or more is an accomplishment which doesn't require exaggeration to be appreciated.

My point on Couts is that moving to LW with Couts has extended Giroux's productive years by taking a lot off his plate, less skating, not having to wrestle with opposing centers, fewer defensive responsibilities.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

Giroux has turned into a perennial MVP candidate.

Deadhead: Well it's because everybody else is doing it for him.

I am not taking the bait. Not sure why anyone else is either. I have been drawn in to his act more than once. never again.

 

[Sawdalite]

Giroux has been awarded the Third Star of Week by the NHL for this past week... with something like 3G, 5A, 8Pts in 3 GP... all Wins.

The Lagacy continues to mount.

 

[AdamParrot]

Elite player.

He will be third best a Flyer of all-time.