Sportsnet: CJ: Teams interested in Andersen, who is reportedly preparing not to be in Toronto next season

Legion34

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Jan 24, 2006
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Carolina has an extra 2nd. New York's pick is early-ish at #41. A mid prospect or pick added gets to around Elliot value, who was dealt for #35 in a similar scenario in 2016. Toronto could then flip the pick in a package for Murray or pocket it and sign a free agent.

Is that worth trading Andersen for? I don't know. I just don't see Carolina going much further than that. Maybe if he had some more term at that salary; he's back to $5 mil or more the following year on an extension.

hmmmm I mean. Mirtle seems to think you would get a “useful” piece and salary clearing. So I mean maybe it’s

2 and a b prospect? I don’t know. Maybe that’s it?

my guess is that a top level goalie on the market. Behind lehner.... Similar to Markstrom. At 700k will have more value than that.
 

seanlinden

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Apr 28, 2009
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Carolina is not saving $4 mil in this scenario. The Canes do not have an internal replacement for either. That will have to come from outside of the organization at a similar cost to what was traded. The difference is just between Mrazek and Andersen. That's $2.25 mil on paper and really ~$1.58 mil after escrow and deferments. That assumes that Carolina can dump off Mrazek clean; retention or a buyout reduces that number further.

I really caution Toronto fans from talking yourselves into this idea.

After escrow, Andersen's actual pay is $0. Mrazek is $2.6m. that being said Mrazek will "get away" clean at the very least, likely recoup a 2nd or 3rd round pick.

Yes, if the Canes resign Vatanen, it's probably $5m. If you go from Hamilton and Mrazek to Vatanen and Anderson, the net effect in cash is a savings of about $3.5m, while getting a legitimate #1 goalie.
 

Legion34

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Jan 24, 2006
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After escrow, Andersen's actual pay is $0. Mrazek is $2.6m. that being said Mrazek will "get away" clean at the very least, likely recoup a 2nd or 3rd round pick.

Yes, if the Canes resign Vatanen, it's probably $5m. If you go from Hamilton and Mrazek to Vatanen and Anderson, the net effect in cash is a savings of about $3.5m, while getting a legitimate #1 goalie.

I don’t think it’s 0.

I think that Andersen’s 4 million was taxed at 30% and the remaining 1 million will be the same......


Heck if the leafs were able to do that I’m sur they would.
 

seanlinden

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Apr 28, 2009
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There is zero chance Toronto gets Hamilton in an Andersen trade.

Hamilton is a premium asset, Andersen is many tiers in value below that.

Both the Hamilton and Pesce rumours are a joke unless Toronto is adding 15th+top prospect.

I'd still be happy with a 2nd+c prospect at this point.

I'm genuinely curious, why you think Hamilton is a premium asset and Andersen is 'many tiers below that'.

Is it because of their overall ability? #1 goalie versus top pair defenceman?

Is it because of their contract status? Both are impending UFAs, likely looking for a raise, and at the very least, a boatload of cash in bonus form.

Is it because of their cap hits, making one of them overpaid?

Is it because of their actual dollars owed? I'm fairly certain Andersen trumps Hamilton and every goalie in the league in that regard.

It it because of the number of goalies available? Maybe, but realistically, who's out there that has comparable ability to Andersen? You've got Lehner, Holtby, Markstrom and Fleury. One of those will be in Vegas next year. The other 3 are going to require large long term deals. the rest are true tandem guys at this point.
 

Big Daddy Cane

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After escrow, Andersen's actual pay is $0. Mrazek is $2.6m. that being said Mrazek will "get away" clean at the very least, likely recoup a 2nd or 3rd round pick.

Yes, if the Canes resign Vatanen, it's probably $5m. If you go from Hamilton and Mrazek to Vatanen and Anderson, the net effect in cash is a savings of about $3.5m, while getting a legitimate #1 goalie.

Does the CBA indicate that a team can get the escrow for another team's signing bonus payment? Serious question.

To the bolded, you forgot to finish with: while losing a top pairing defenseman and the biggest offensive threat on the blueline by a mile. If Vatanen was that close to Hamilton, the Leafs would just sign him instead.
 

seanlinden

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Apr 28, 2009
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I don’t think it’s 0.

I think that Andersen’s 4 million was taxed at 30% and the remaining 1 million will be the same......


Heck if the leafs were able to do that I’m sur they would.

My understanding with escrow is that because it is designed to fluctuate throughout the year, bonuses are not subject to escrow. Bonuses are simply taken into consideration when making a player's escrow deductions.

Escrow is 20pct this year, and that's all of Andersen's remaining compensation.
 

Legion34

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Jan 24, 2006
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My understanding with escrow is that because it is designed to fluctuate throughout the year, bonuses are not subject to escrow. Bonuses are simply taken into consideration when making a player's escrow deductions.

Escrow is 20pct this year, and that's all of Andersen's remaining compensation.

???? so how would that work for marner.

if he makes 15 mil in bonuses. And 1 in salary

he owes 3.2 in escrow so that couldn’t work right? Unless I’m missing something
 

seanlinden

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Apr 28, 2009
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Does the CBA indicate that a team can get the escrow for another team's signing bonus payment? Serious question.

To the bolded, you forgot to finish with: while losing a top pairing defenseman and the biggest offensive threat on the blueline by a mile. If Vatanen was that close to Hamilton, the Leafs would just sign him instead.

With respect to the CBA, I do not know whether the Canes would have to pay the escrow back to the Leafs.

Yes, it's a downgrade on the blueline for the Canes. The reason the Leafs don't just go for a Vatanen is because they need some size back there.
 

spockBokk

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Sep 8, 2013
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I'm genuinely curious, why you think Hamilton is a premium asset and Andersen is 'many tiers below that'.

Is it because of their overall ability? #1 goalie versus top pair defenceman?

Is it because of their contract status? Both are impending UFAs, likely looking for a raise, and at the very least, a boatload of cash in bonus form.

Is it because of their cap hits, making one of them overpaid?

Is it because of their actual dollars owed? I'm fairly certain Andersen trumps Hamilton and every goalie in the league in that regard.

It it because of the number of goalies available? Maybe, but realistically, who's out there that has comparable ability to Andersen? You've got Lehner, Holtby, Markstrom and Fleury. One of those will be in Vegas next year. The other 3 are going to require large long term deals. the rest are true tandem guys at this point.

Most recent rental “top pair” defenseman (Mcdonagh) dealt with 1 year left on his deal (plus roster filler in Namestikov) = prospects Libor Hajek and Brett Howden, and Tampa Bay's first-round pick in 2018 and a conditional first-round pick in 2019

Most recent #1 goalie dealt with 1 year term (= The Tampa Bay Lightning traded goaltender Ben Bishop and a fifth-round pick in the 2017 NHL Draft to the Los Angeles Kings on Sunday for goaltender Peter Budaj, defenseman Erik Cernak, a seventh-round pick in 2017 and a conditional pick in this year's draft.

See a difference in assets here? It’s not that hard, Top pair D are worth more than #1 goalies.
 

seanlinden

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Apr 28, 2009
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???? so how would that work for marner.

if he makes 15 mil in bonuses. And 1 in salary

he owes 3.2 in escrow so that couldn’t work right? Unless I’m missing something

How it's handled when escrow exceeds salary is not something I have found the answer for.
 

Legion34

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Jan 24, 2006
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How it's handled when escrow exceeds salary is not something I have found the answer for.

im not saying you are wrong. I just don’t see how it works.

if you are paid full Sb about 95% of your salary is SB. So then any time escrow is above 5% it would be an overage
 

Canada4Gold

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My understanding with escrow is that because it is designed to fluctuate throughout the year, bonuses are not subject to escrow. Bonuses are simply taken into consideration when making a player's escrow deductions.

Escrow is 20pct this year, and that's all of Andersen's remaining compensation.

I'm unsure of whether this is correct or not, but if it is it's not like whoever who acquires Andersen would be getting him for 0 money. They'd still have to pay the 1 million in salary, it's just Andersen would get none of it, it would go into the escrow fund and eventually paid out in proportion to the percentage of teams who paid him, 80% to Toronto, 20% to the acquiring team as they only paid 20% of his total pay(SB + salary) for the season. They'd pay the 1 million and eventually get 200k back.

Meaning if escrow isn't withheld from the bonus payments as you suggest, it's still factored in when escrow is returned to teams.
 

Sidney the Kidney

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Career Save Percentages:
Andersen .917
Allen .913
Holtby .916 (coming off a bad year)
Crawford: .918 (coming of a good year)
Greis: .915 (and he has been a starter or a 1A)

Also, it seems Fleury (.913) could be on the move, albeit he's got a higher salary/AAV (but Vegas likely would retain or take back).

Raanta is another likely guy on the move via trade with AAV 4.25. Very good starting caliber goalie (career .921) who is injury prone.

If Raanta isn't moved, Darcy Kuemper would be. Similar profile and an extra year of term through 2021-22 at $4.5M AAV (expansion draft eligible)

CBJ may move a quality young goalie via trade.

Khudobin would be a placeholder for a team and come at a reasonable UFA price.

Save percentage is not definitive, but the difference between most of these guys is not massive.

There's a glut of available goalies and Andersen, even if he's a bit better then some of the options, is not going to get a huge premium over the other options. Given the over supply and flat cap, I think trade prices and UFA AAV's will be down.

Not everyone on that list can perform like that when given a workload of a 60-game starter. Apart from his stats overall, it's the fact Andersen can play 60-odd games is part of his value. It's what separates the starters who put up good numbers in 60 games versus the "half and half" guys who put up similar numbers while in a tandem getting around 35-40 starts per year.
 
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ITM

Out on the front line, don't worry I'll be fine...
Jan 26, 2012
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Mindful management reflects roster, our defense and the commitment to team defense is the problem. It's not Andersen per se. What Andersen represents is an opportunity to acquire a piece that will directly or indirectly augment defense at position or team defense. The regrettable thing about moving Andersen apart from his value, is that it's unlikely that one piece can't yield a wide-sweeping move that addresses multiple positions of weakness: A two-way power forward and a 2/3 defenceman. A number 1 RHD and a 3C defensive specialist. Because make no mistake, Andersen's a number one goalie that have some have said, might be our best goalie since Belfour. His record in series deciding games notwithstanding, remember our lead with Reimer. It's a disease that hasn't left and I can't help but wonder if it won't because the city is bombarded with an abnormal amount of circumspection no matter what the club does. And that HAS to deform an athlete's sense of identity/commitment to be inundated with such extreme swings of value.

Is it any wonder, Kessel, Bozak, Kadri and JVR, Komarov..even Hutchinson...all of a sudden find themselves as key parts on succeeding teams, rapidly after leaving Toronto? It's not that they're of equal value individually, but there's something to the notion that whatever their role, it, increases after serving as a Leaf.

Our problem since Quinn it seems, has been an apprehension that drives our clubs on emotion and deference rather than a disposition of relentless selfless play. Like Boston. Win or lose, like Boston.

We don't need to win the Cup in the next five seasons in order to be successful because that might be a leap beyond reason. What the club needs is severe culture change that wins and loses with a reputation of being dreadful to play against. We're never going to win them all, but the club can turn a cultural corner and commit to being hard-working.

As a fan whose never seen a Cup, and may never see a Cup...I'll take hard-working and sacrifice and leave come what may to effort.
 

spockBokk

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For one year of Hamilton?

I’d think with by the Leafs potentially giving up that much (fair value in my view but I’d switch Sandin to Liljgren) they’d be quite confident or already assured Hamilton would re-sign with them.
 

Space Coyote

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I’d think with by the Leafs potentially giving up that much (fair value in my view but I’d switch Sandin to Liljgren) they’d be quite confident or already assured Hamilton would re-sign with them.

But do the Leafs really need Hamilton? He's basically Barrie 2.0 maybe a little better.
 

spockBokk

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Sep 8, 2013
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kotchetkov, rees, drury toronto 1st and nyr 2nd for Johansson, Anderson and rights to barrie

What in the $&@@ is this? Salary cap much? No team is taking on over $8M in cap without sending any back.

The only asset I’d trade in any of that absurd wishlist is the 2nd for Andersen, even then, Mrazek would be attached to the 2nd.

Barrie’s rights? Are you for real...:laugh:
 
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spockBokk

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But do the Leafs really need Hamilton? He's basically Barrie 2.0 maybe a little better.

If you don’t think Hamilton is a significant improvement over Tyson Barrie, well, then there’s not really much to say.

Prior to injury, one of them was in the Norris conversation, the other...was not...
 

Cotton

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May 13, 2013
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If you don’t think Hamilton is a significant improvement over Tyson Barrie, well, then there’s not really much to say.

Prior to injury, one of them was in the Norris conversation, the other...was not...

One-off seasons happen, Andersen was a slam dunk vezina finalist at the three-quarter mark last season until he shit the bed. Hamilton was playing top-pair minutes for years on two previous teams where he has always been a mental-midget defensively. Are you saying he went from Barrie-esq to Shea Weber since you traded for him?
 

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