Chychrun Megathread IV

[Mangosteen]

So you think Chychrun lacks integrity?

I think losing wearing him out. I don’t think he could take it for another 3 years.

Imagine going to a job you absolutely hate. (He hates to lose and that’s our strategy) For three years knowing you can’t do anything about it. How would you feel?

You are classical trained chef that was top of your class. Trained 6 years and now stuck working at a pancake house with all the other cooks that nobody else would hire. What the Yotes players are going through is tough. There are many players that can’t survive a tank.

 

[Schemp]

I think losing wearing him out. I don’t think he could take it for another 3 years.

Imagine going to a job you absolutely hate. (He hates to lose and that’s our strategy) For three years knowing you can’t do anything about it. How would you feel?

You are classical trained chef that was top of your class. Trained 6 years and now stuck working at a pancake house with all the other cooks that nobody else would hire. What the Yotes players are going through is tough. There are many players that can’t survive a tank.

So you're implying that winning would make everything alright? Or better yet a chance to win? That our RDs, as a whole, is the problem?

 

[rt]

I don’t disagree but if we deal OEL a year prior does Vancouver finish 10-15 and instead of Guenther we are looking at Cossa (who was taken at 15 which is where Van finished this past year). That deal goes from extremely good to a maybe very quick.

Great post. Never thought of that.

 

[Kai Yo T]

So you're implying that winning would make everything alright? Or better yet a chance to win? That our RDs, as a whole, is the problem?







Chychrun may let things get to his head and it may affect him on the ice. We'll see.







Edit: Anyone else having all their replies added to the quote box? It goes right back in there no matter what lol. I'm having LOTS of glitches with this site only.

 

[Schemp]

If we trade for Tyler Myers on the cheap, would that make Chychrun happy

 

[Mangosteen]

So you're implying that winning would make everything alright? Or better yet a chance to win? That our RDs, as a whole, is the problem?

Mainly the will / direction to win. The leadership has said they are setting themselves up to be losers. It will take several years to be competitive.

Looking for “babysitters” (my words) to teach the next generation how to prepare, eat and train. Your career is pretty much a place holder for 3 years. This will be mentally exhausting for the players. I really do hope that they have a great coaching, strong mental health support and do whatever they can to make it fun for the players the next 3 years.

Most contacts are based on analytics now. It will be very difficult to have positive analytical statistics as a Yotes except penalty minutes and fights. That not where the money is.

Great questions and thanks for letting me share my view. Culture/ mentality will be our biggest challenge. We can easily become Buffalo or Avs. I believe both drafted great players, maybe even give the edge to Buffalo.

 

[flashsabre]

^ fancy way of saying Paterka, Portillo, and a 1st (of some kind) for Chychrun and either a 2nd or 3rd.

Does Chychrun ever play RD? The Pegulas and Chychruns are neighbours and friends in Florida. I could see Pegula telling Adams to look into Chychrun.

I think Jokiharu would be the D coming back. Jokiharu, Portillo, Ryan Johnson, draft pick. Probably what Adams would be willing to give up. I don’t think they move Peterka. Dreger said the Sabres looked into it at the draft but it would have probably happened there with one of the Sabres three 1sts. Probably dead now.

 

[rt]

Does Chychrun ever play RD? The Pegulas and Chychruns are neighbours and friends in Florida. I could see Pegula telling Adams to look into Chychrun.

I think Jokiharu would be the D coming back. Jokiharu, Portillo, Ryan Johnson, draft pick. Probably what Adams would be willing to give up. I don’t think they move Peterka. Dreger said the Sabres looked into it at the draft but it would have probably happened there with one of the Sabres three 1sts. Probably dead now.

Chychrun does play RD. Zero interest in Jokiharju. Also don’t want Johnson. Chychrun for Paterka, Portillo and a 2nd.

 

[XX]

While I have no problems with the way he has handled the Chychrun situation thus far, I don't think you can discount how he handled the OEL trade. He waited about an off season too long, did nothing with the roster including the coach staff the first year and just let OEL's value tank to the point where the team is now on the hook for paying retention and lost Garland for basically nothing. I feel we could have picked up easily another 1st & 2nd if OEL was traded initially or there was a coaching change at some point in the first season BA arrived.

I'd nominally agree but I felt during that time BA had not achieved the necessary clout with Meruelo to make those large changes so quickly and was still fighting for mindshare with Tocchet. Sticky Rick even tried to hustle for a new contract after that mini series against the Blues but BA managed to punt it somehow and Meruelo did not capitulate to his supposedly great coach. After Tocchet fell on his face again it became clear what needed to be done and at that point you started to see real change from BA. Tocchet not getting another coaching job and not being seriously considered for any of the many open positions only added to BA's credibility with Meruelo.

It's water under the bridge, but I'm not sure you end up with a Guenther level prospect if things go differently. That trade was largely a perfect storm of a (now fired) desperate GM with a lot of cap to dump holding a top 10 pick.

I'd greatly prefer the team not take Chychrun into camp. I feel there are enough buyers that it needs to get done this week. I'll have some real questions if they try to put this off until the TDL.

 

[RemoAZ]

BA has made enough solid progress towards his plan for me to have patience and wait him out. It's certainly gut wrenching, not having entertaining hockey to watch, especially after seeing so much great playoff hockey but we're this far in and he's added a shit ton of talent to the organization. I believe he has a plan for Chychrun too and he's working it. He's proven he's not going to blink. Maybe he'll miss out on some value here and there but I bet over the long haul that keep us from getting stuck with some of the horrible deals that happen every year.

 

[cobra427]

He played the waiting game and got what he wanted for Kuemper. It wasn't risk free, but he did ultimately back Sakic into a corner and read the situation correctly.

There's no reason for him to panic or blink early. Chychrun has a reasonable cap hit and AZ can easily make the money work for any team. They just need to have the appropriate dosh and the stones to trade it. That simple. There are multiple teams out there slamming on the gas that need LD.

Klingberg for free is a better get than trading something that hurts for Chychrun. So until that shoe drops, I wouldn't expect much. But some teams also need to clear space, so there's this weird combination of logjam and waiting game going on.

BA hasn't given any reason to doubt him. That's a pretty good place to be.

BA has given me enough reason to doubt him. He waited one full year to start the rebuild, one full year to let RT walk, one extra year to trade OEL, his value went down some more in that time and it cost us Garland. Sakic just won the Cup, we didn't outsmart him. DVO was our best young C, somehow he is gone, as is Bunting.

The reason we can't trade Chych is that he is worth less than his one season he played most of the year and lead the NHL in goals. That season looks like an aberration now amongst his injury problems, he has played less games than Hanzal in his 6 years, he is not top pairing on D.

We could have started the rebuild a year earlier, gotten a better return for OEL, kept Garland/DVO/Bunting and Chych. I think Chych was disenchanted after BA jettisoned other young players, Chych might have been mislead and then said "I want out too".

BA has been shopping him since before the TDL, no takers. I expect the return to be below our expectations if its before the season starts. At next years TLD, if Chych starts scoring more goals, plays better on D, and isn't injured constantly, we might get a better return. I doubt he will be super motivated seeing as how he doesn't want to be here and BA is shopping him.

In my opinion, the longer BA waits now the worse the return will be, the die has been cast, time to move on, best for both the Coyotes and Chych.

 

[Vinny Boombatz]

BA has given me enough reason to doubt him. He waited one full year to start the rebuild, one full year to let RT walk, one extra year to trade OEL, his value went down some more in that time and it cost us Garland. Sakic just won the Cup, we didn't outsmart him. DVO was our best young C, somehow he is gone, as is Bunting.

The reason we can't trade Chych is that he is worth less than his one season he played most of the year and lead the NHL in goals. That season looks like an aberration now amongst his injury problems, he has played less games than Hanzal in his 6 years, he is not top pairing on D.

We could have started the rebuild a year earlier, gotten a better return for OEL, kept Garland/DVO/Bunting and Chych. I think Chych was disenchanted after BA jettisoned other young players, Chych might have been mislead and then said "I want out too".

BA has been shopping him since before the TDL, no takers. I expect the return to be below our expectations if its before the season starts. At next years TLD, if Chych starts scoring more goals, plays better on D, and isn't injured constantly, we might get a better return. I doubt he will be super motivated seeing as how he doesn't want to be here and BA is shopping him.

In my opinion, the longer BA waits now the worse the return will be, the die has been cast, time to move on, best for both the Coyotes and Chych.

Hate to break it to you, but Dvorak wasn't that good as he proved in Montreal. With BA we have gotten our hands on the best young talent this organization has seen, well, ever. The plan is working in my opinion. 1 more disastrous season and then we start pulling up out of the downward spiral.

Yes, he kept OEL 1 year too long, but I don't blame him for Bunting leaving, that is on Tocchet for not playing him until the end. Garland was a good piece, but Keller is better so at least he kept the better player. BA is holding out on a king's ransom for Chychrun, which is great as far as I'm concerned, get your price or keep him.

He's going to be valuable 2 years from now when we start pulling out of the abyss and then maybe all parties will see the light and we can keep him long term as he is an elite player and we need more of them, not less.

 

[Mosby]

Tocchet like his roster was under evaluation for BA’s first year. He got the whole year and everything that comes with it to show what he can do. He failed that evaluation and was subsequently fired.

Not sure why some are still upset he wasn’t fired midseason. Why? Season wasn’t worth saving, and what are you really getting? Head Coach Phil Housley? Getting Tourigny to leave the 67’s midseason wasn’t going to happen.

 

[Jakey53]

BA has made enough solid progress towards his plan for me to have patience and wait him out. It's certainly gut wrenching, not having entertaining hockey to watch, especially after seeing so much great playoff hockey but we're this far in and he's added a shit ton of talent to the organization. I believe he has a plan for Chychrun too and he's working it. He's proven he's not going to blink. Maybe he'll miss out on some value here and there but I bet over the long haul that keep us from getting stuck with some of the horrible deals that happen every year.

What "added shit ton of talent" are you talking about?

 

[RemoAZ]

What "added shit ton of talent" are you talking about?

All those draft picks and traded for young players over the last 12 months? I know you've paid attention enough to notice that much. We don't know how good they'll be but you can't deny that's a ton of talent in a short period of time.

 

[Mangosteen]

BA has given me enough reason to doubt him. He waited one full year to start the rebuild, one full year to let RT walk, one extra year to trade OEL, his value went down some more in that time and it cost us Garland. Sakic just won the Cup, we didn't outsmart him. DVO was our best young C, somehow he is gone, as is Bunting.

The reason we can't trade Chych is that he is worth less than his one season he played most of the year and lead the NHL in goals. That season looks like an aberration now amongst his injury problems, he has played less games than Hanzal in his 6 years, he is not top pairing on D.

We could have started the rebuild a year earlier, gotten a better return for OEL, kept Garland/DVO/Bunting and Chych. I think Chych was disenchanted after BA jettisoned other young players, Chych might have been mislead and then said "I want out too".

BA has been shopping him since before the TDL, no takers. I expect the return to be below our expectations if its before the season starts. At next years TLD, if Chych starts scoring more goals, plays better on D, and isn't injured constantly, we might get a better return. I doubt he will be super motivated seeing as how he doesn't want to be here and BA is shopping him.

In my opinion, the longer BA waits now the worse the return will be, the die has been cast, time to move on, best for both the Coyotes and Chych.

Well said

 

[cobra427]

All those draft picks and traded for young players over the last 12 months? I know you've paid attention enough to notice that much. We don't know how good they'll be but you can't deny that's a ton of talent in a short period of time.

Hate to break it to you, but Dvorak wasn't that good as he proved in Montreal. With BA we have gotten our hands on the best young talent this organization has seen, well, ever. The plan is working in my opinion. 1 more disastrous season and then we start pulling up out of the downward spiral.

Yes, he kept OEL 1 year too long, but I don't blame him for Bunting leaving, that is on Tocchet for not playing him until the end. Garland was a good piece, but Keller is better so at least he kept the better player. BA is holding out on a king's ransom for Chychrun, which is great as far as I'm concerned, get your price or keep him.

He's going to be valuable 2 years from now when we start pulling out of the abyss and then maybe all parties will see the light and we can keep him long term as he is an elite player and we need more of them, not less.

I would be happier if BA got rid of RT/OEL year one, kept DVO/Garland/Bunting, and Chych assuming he wanted to stay if we kept all the young guys. DVO had a tough year scoring in a bad situation, first trade is always the toughest, but he is still solid on D and would be our best C. I agree with BA's plan to build with youth and picks, I think he's made plenty of mistakes so far but I'm hoping the plan works.

 

[gorsk11]

I would be happier if BA got rid of RT/OEL year one, kept DVO/Garland/Bunting, and Chych assuming he wanted to stay if we kept all the young guys. DVO had a tough year scoring in a bad situation, first trade is always the toughest, but he is still solid on D and would be our best C. I agree with BA's plan to build with youth and picks, I think he's made plenty of mistakes so far but I'm hoping the plan works.

I loved Garland but he was due a good pay raise. His size was always going to be an issue with injuries. We got a first for both DVO and Garland. Dvo had his best year and we got a 1st round pick for him. I have no issue for either of those trades as a matter of fact. Thought they were both good trades.

 

[JasonDemersWasOkay]

You know when you consider that the pick we got for Dvorak was maneuvered around to get Geekie, we essentially traded Kyle Turris for Conor Geekie

 

[Grimes]

You know when you consider that the pick we got for Dvorak was maneuvered around to get Geekie, we essentially traded Kyle Turris for Conor Geekie

3rd OA in 2007 Kyle Turris
Turris for Rundblad and 2012 2nd
Rundblad for CHI 2014 2nd. OTT 2012 2nd for Vermette (nice.)
CHI 2014 2nd = Dvorak. Vermette* for Dahlbeck and CHI 2015 1st (Merkley).
Merkley was used in the Hall trade. Dahlbeck went to CAR via waivers
Dvorak traded for 2022 MTL 1st
2022 MTL 1st + two 2022 2nd's for the SJ 2022 1st (Geekie)

Turris had a part in; 5 seasons of Dvorak, 4.5 seasons of Vermette, a large factor in drafting Geekie, a small factor in trading for Hall (for better or worse), and some NHL games from Rundblad/Dahlbeck/Merkely.

This trade shockingly worked out well for us.

*Vermette came back the following season

 

[Imaravencawcaw]

I don't understand why people complain about not firing Tocchet earlier. The Coyotes didn't have a 1st round pick in Tocchet's last year, so you might as well tell them to play/coach for their lives and see who steps up and who shits the bed. Tocchet and most of the roster shit their pants so BA knew that he had to tear everything down to the studs.

 

[cobra427]

I don't understand why people complain about not firing Tocchet earlier. The Coyotes didn't have a 1st round pick in Tocchet's last year, so you might as well tell them to play/coach for their lives and see who steps up and who shits the bed. Tocchet and most of the roster shit their pants so BA knew that he had to tear everything down to the studs.

The roster and team already stunk before BA got here. If you are going to tear a business down, you have to cut and cut fast, get it over with asap, that is my experience having done it a few times. Most of the fans on this board knew we had to tear it down. BA hasn't had any experience with a tear down, just the build up while with the Blues, this might be his inexperience.

The only reason to keep RT was to save money, maybe that is why BA kept him. Rt proved what he was worth in the 3 previous years, BA didn't need to evaluate him, dye was already cast. So keep Rt to save money, waiting a year to tear it down cost us that year and a better return on OEL which cost us Garland. Now BA is waiting too long to trade Chych, that will bite us as well as his value declines some more.

To BA's credit, he is methodically building picks and prospects, I do think that is a good strategy but his inexperience in a tear down has been costly short term in time and talent.

 

[Imaravencawcaw]

The roster and team already stunk before BA got here. If you are going to tear a business down, you have to cut and cut fast, get it over with asap, that is my experience having done it a few times. Most of the fans on this board knew we had to tear it down. BA hasn't had any experience with a tear down, just the build up while with the Blues, this might be his inexperience.

The only reason to keep RT was to save money, maybe that is why BA kept him. Rt proved what he was worth in the 3 previous years, BA didn't need to evaluate him, dye was already cast. So keep Rt to save money, waiting a year to tear it down cost us that year and a better return on OEL which cost us Garland. Now BA is waiting too long to trade Chych, that will bite us as well as his value declines some more.

To BA's credit, he is methodically building picks and prospects, I do think that is a good strategy but his inexperience in a tear down has been costly short term in time and talent.

You've been watching the team up close and personal for years, BA was in St. Louis minding his own business. He could have just come in and blown everything up immediately, but by being patient he was able to correctly identify that players like Keller and Crouse were worth keeping even when most people on this board thought Keller had one of the worst contracts in the league.

 

[Jakey53]

All those draft picks and traded for young players over the last 12 months? I know you've paid attention enough to notice that much. We don't know how good they'll be but you can't deny that's a ton of talent in a short period of time.

We have no idea how they end up. If you said "ton of blue chip prospects or prospects" then I would agree. Most will never play a game in the NHL or be a impactful player.

 

[Mosby]

I am glad BA came in and actually evaluated things from the inside. You can't just base everything on outside perspective and make monumental changes Day 1. Case in point, the majority of this board dislikes Fischer, but internally the organization seems to love him. They are privy to the behind the scenes perspectives that we are not.