Player Discussion Christian Jaros

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Xspyrit

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People will hate me for this but I think he will be like Ceci lol

Big, fast, strong, tries really hard, hard shot, decent one on one defending but not great at positioning and reads, sometimes takes too much time to make defensive reads and too much time with the puck, lacks dynamism with the puck, etc....

Then again I think Ceci is a decent #4 and thats what I think Jaros will be

No, you're totally right. Put Ceci or any other guy (not made for the task) in Ceci's role and he will get eaten alive. I hope for Ceci's sake that he's traded to a team that will use him in the right role. And I hope the Sens don't burn Jaros career as well (however Ceci gets bashed a lot but make more money on the other side)

Anyway, I think Jaros will be a good #4-5, which doesn't matter much since there is Chabot, Brannstrom, Wolanin, JBD? in front of him; plus new prospects that the Sens will draft in the near future with that boatload of picks.
 
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Korpse

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People will hate me for this but I think he will be like Ceci lol

Big, fast, strong, tries really hard, hard shot, decent one on one defending but not great at positioning and reads, sometimes takes too much time to make defensive reads and too much time with the puck, lacks dynamism with the puck, etc....

Then again I think Ceci is a decent #4 and thats what I think Jaros will be

I agree for the most part. Both have great tools, but neither are able to fully utilize them because of a limited tool box. I was high on Jaros last year and thought he could be a top 4 guy. The more I see him the more I question that upside. There's no doubt he will have a fairly long NHL career but I dont know if he will be able to take that next step. It's only a matter of time before the shine wears off and the fan base turns on him.
 
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Korpse

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Has Ceci ever made a pass like that in his career?


I'm sure you can find a clip. People forget how skilled NHL players are. 99% + of NHL defensemen since 05/06 have made a pass like that. Hell Jordie Benn connected on a hail marry pass similar to Karlsson-Hoffman years prior, Ironically it came off a Karlsson turnover.

Now if were are talking offensively ability between Ceci and Jaros, I dont think Jaros has the instincts that Ceci does.
 
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DrakeAndJosh

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I'm sure you can find a clip. People forget how skilled NHL players are. 99% + of NHL defensemen since 05/06 have made a pass like that. Hell Jordie Benn connected on a hail marry pass similar to Karlsson-Hoffman years prior, Ironically it came off a Karlsson turnover.

Now if were are talking offensively ability between Ceci and Jaros, I dont think Jaros has the instincts that Ceci does.
I haven’t really seen the high end upside in Jaros that other people have, I think he tops out as a good second pair guy, maybe more but I don’t think so.
Not to pile on Ceci but he has some of the worst offensive instincts I’ve ever seen. Sees the game way too slowly. His only offensive plays are to carry it down the boards and shoot into the crest, or hold it way too long on the point and shoot it into someone’s shins. Jaros at least has situational awareness and can make some creative passes now and then.
 
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Korpse

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I haven’t really seen the high end upside in Jaros that other people have, I think he tops out as a good second pair guy, maybe more but I don’t think so.
Not to pile on Ceci but he has some of the worst offensive instincts I’ve ever seen. Sees the game way too slowly. His only offensive plays are to carry it down the boards and shoot into the crest, or hold it way too long on the point and shoot it into someone’s shins. Jaros at least has situational awareness and can make some creative passes now and then.

With the puck Ceci is bad. His reads however are good. He supports the play well and is good at jumping into the rush.
 

DrakeAndJosh

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With the puck Ceci is bad. His reads however are good. He supports the play well and is good at jumping into the rush.
I actually agree with this, for whatever reason when he gets the puck it's like he's two seconds behind everyone else. But ya, without the puck he's usually pretty good at putting himself in a good position.
 

ottawah

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Has Ceci ever made a pass like that in his career?


Not to pile on Ceci but he has some of the worst offensive instincts I’ve ever seen. Sees the game way too slowly. His only offensive plays are to carry it down the boards and shoot into the crest, or hold it way too long on the point and shoot it into someone’s shins. Jaros at least has situational awareness and can make some creative passes now and then.

The numbers tell an entirely different story. Ceci's offense is on a whole other level than Jaros. It is so far apart I am not sure how people can even think otherwise.

Ceci in the AHL at 20 absolutely blew away what Jaros did in the AHL at 22.

In the NHL at 22 Ceci managed a 26 point season. Jaros at 23 managed a 10 point season.

Ceci finished 32nd in RHD scoring this year, thats border line #1 pairing production. With no PP time. He finished 16th in even strength points. He was actually well ahead of Doughty in even strength points. There was ten teams he would have been the top scoring right handed D on. He entirely outscored all the RHD on 4 teams in the league on his own.

Nothing against Jaros, but there has never been any indication that he is even close to Ceci offensively.[/QUOTE]
 

Sensmileletsgo

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The numbers tell an entirely different story. Ceci's offense is on a whole other level than Jaros. It is so far apart I am not sure how people can even think otherwise.

Ceci in the AHL at 20 absolutely blew away what Jaros did in the AHL at 22.

In the NHL at 22 Ceci managed a 26 point season. Jaros at 23 managed a 10 point season.

Ceci finished 32nd in RHD scoring this year, thats border line #1 pairing production. With no PP time. He finished 16th in even strength points. He was actually well ahead of Doughty in even strength points. There was ten teams he would have been the top scoring right handed D on. He entirely outscored all the RHD on 4 teams in the league on his own.

Nothing against Jaros, but there has never been any indication that he is even close to Ceci offensively.
[/QUOTE]
That's some impressive numbers. It's surprising that he can really fail the eye test most nights but still put up good point production.
 

Sens of Anarchy

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The numbers tell an entirely different story. Ceci's offense is on a whole other level than Jaros. It is so far apart I am not sure how people can even think otherwise.

Ceci in the AHL at 20 absolutely blew away what Jaros did in the AHL at 22.

In the NHL at 22 Ceci managed a 26 point season. Jaros at 23 managed a 10 point season.

Ceci finished 32nd in RHD scoring this year, thats border line #1 pairing production. With no PP time. He finished 16th in even strength points. He was actually well ahead of Doughty in even strength points. There was ten teams he would have been the top scoring right handed D on. He entirely outscored all the RHD on 4 teams in the league on his own.

Nothing against Jaros, but there has never been any indication that he is even close to Ceci offensively.
[/QUOTE]

Should be able to trade him and get a good return. Ceci definitely has some pretty good tools. Skates well., Good size, Reads the play .... but he makes some pretty tunnel vision brain dead plays as well. I don't like his toolbox particularly under pressure. I'd rather have Jaros to win a physical battle and move the puck out vs Ceci.. I think Jaros will be more reliable in several aspects in the Dzone. Ceci has shown he can put up points as you have said compared to Jaros.
 

Korpse

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As Ottawah pointed out he is putting up pretty good numbers which is often tough to do for players who's play with the puck is subpar.

As I said prior to that post. Ceci is good at supporting the play and jumping into the rush. Watch any Cody Ceci highlight and I bet you it will be him flying down the right side. He sucks with the puck on his stick which is the biggest reason he receives so much hate. He isn't elsuive at all and he is alarmingly clumsy with the puck on his stick but he knows how to put himself into a good position in transition. He has the physical tools and is coachable but he lacks natural talent which is why he will always be a polarizing figure.
 

Sensmileletsgo

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As I said prior to that post. Ceci is good at supporting the play and jumping into the rush. Watch any Cody Ceci highlight and I bet you it will be him flying down the right side. He sucks with the puck on his stick which is the biggest reason he receives so much hate. He isn't elsuive at all and he is alarmingly clumsy with the puck on his stick but he knows how to put himself into a good position in transition. He has the physical tools and is coachable but he lacks natural talent which is why he will always be a polarizing figure.
I agree with all of this 100%. It's a very good summary of Ceci. Brucie talked about Ottawa have two options with Ceci this summer, a long term deal or trading him. I'd like Ottawa to qualify him and keep him for one final year. It's a rebuilding year where we are expecting to be bottom feeders and get a high pick. I dont think guys like Lajoie or Jaros are ready to take his minutes and Boro and Harpur are worse then him. I also doubt we can sign a UFA to take Ceci's minutes as Ottawa obviously isnt an attractive destination right now.
 
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ottawah

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That's some impressive numbers. It's surprising that he can really fail the eye test most nights but still put up good point production.[/QUOTE]

I agree he fails the eye test continually, but what escapes most people is that it is harder to play against the Kucherovs and McDavids of the league as opposed to the Sikuras and the Bluegers, especially when you do 2/3rds of your starts in the defensive zone. You have far less time to make those decisions. Look what happened when Claesson and Wideman were moved out of sheltered roles. Even Harper fits that description. It is a huge jump from a sheltered role to a mid role, much less what Ottawa throws Ceci in night in and out.

The truth is I am not entirely sure what Ceci is at this point. Put into a spot like Karlsson was here, he could easily be a 40+ point D man, the data points to it being possible, perhaps even likely. But we just do not know. And defensively he is not an elite shutdown D, but he has shown enough savvy against the elite offensive players, that its likely he can play against 2nd/3rd line and be a very solid option against them. And the worst thing is that while being miscast here, he would likely be miscast on half the teams in the league, RHD is a position of such weakness for so many teams.
 

derriko

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As I said prior to that post. Ceci is good at supporting the play and jumping into the rush. Watch any Cody Ceci highlight and I bet you it will be him flying down the right side. He sucks with the puck on his stick which is the biggest reason he receives so much hate. He isn't elsuive at all and he is alarmingly clumsy with the puck on his stick but he knows how to put himself into a good position in transition. He has the physical tools and is coachable but he lacks natural talent which is why he will always be a polarizing figure.

I am not a Ceci hater like a lot of people. I think he would be a good #4 with a solid, veteran puck-mover where he could hang back, make some d to d passes, and let the other guy do all the transition work. The Sens have failed him ever since Gonchar left and wasn't replaced. See how Cowen benefited from this exact situation and looked like a lock to be a great top 4 option after his rookie year with Gonchar?

But my god the lack of awareness. Yeah he can join a rush, but he kills the play immediately once receiving the puck. He's only good as a decoy. If you watch him as the third man in, he makes no attempt at hitting one of his teammates with a pass. Doesn't even look or have an idea of where they are. He's like "oh shit oh shit oh shit...slapshot." And that's from anywhere from the blue line in. Got a guy open in the slot? Outside the outer hash-marks? Doesn't matter.

Jaros at least has the vision and creativity to try something other than rip it into the goalies chest immediately after touching the puck. I don't think the age to age comparison is exactly fair either. Jaros was a late bloomer, and a much later draft pick. You also have to consider Ceci played hockey in Canada all his life, while people forget this is Jaros's second year in N/A.

Now I am in no way saying Jaros is going to be a top pairing guy, but if someone like Brannstrom breaks out next year and Jaros gets to play with him, he will hit Ceci's numbers no problem. Jaros also has the physicality advantage over Ceci. I think it could be reasonably argued Ceci = Jaros right now.
 

bert

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The numbers tell an entirely different story. Ceci's offense is on a whole other level than Jaros. It is so far apart I am not sure how people can even think otherwise.

Ceci in the AHL at 20 absolutely blew away what Jaros did in the AHL at 22.

In the NHL at 22 Ceci managed a 26 point season. Jaros at 23 managed a 10 point season.

Ceci finished 32nd in RHD scoring this year, thats border line #1 pairing production. With no PP time. He finished 16th in even strength points. He was actually well ahead of Doughty in even strength points. There was ten teams he would have been the top scoring right handed D on. He entirely outscored all the RHD on 4 teams in the league on his own.

Nothing against Jaros, but there has never been any indication that he is even close to Ceci offensively.
[/QUOTE]

Not all players develop at the same rate, Jaros had to come over from europe there is going to be a longer development curve. Jaros processes the game much faster than Ceci you can tell by how much better his first pass it and decision making.

He is going to be a really good player big guys develop longer and his trajectory is terrific.
 

FormentonTheFuture

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I'm a big fan of Jaros. He can skate very well and his edge and mobility will be a great compliment to an offensive LD like Brannstrom or even Chabot down the road.

He is nasty but can play. Good combo.
 
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aragorn

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The numbers tell an entirely different story. Ceci's offense is on a whole other level than Jaros. It is so far apart I am not sure how people can even think otherwise.

Ceci in the AHL at 20 absolutely blew away what Jaros did in the AHL at 22.

In the NHL at 22 Ceci managed a 26 point season. Jaros at 23 managed a 10 point season.

Ceci finished 32nd in RHD scoring this year, thats border line #1 pairing production. With no PP time. He finished 16th in even strength points. He was actually well ahead of Doughty in even strength points. There was ten teams he would have been the top scoring right handed D on. He entirely outscored all the RHD on 4 teams in the league on his own.

Nothing against Jaros, but there has never been any indication that he is even close to Ceci offensively.
[/QUOTE]

That's some impressive numbers. It's surprising that he can really fail the eye test most nights but still put up good point production.

I agree he fails the eye test continually, but what escapes most people is that it is harder to play against the Kucherovs and McDavids of the league as opposed to the Sikuras and the Bluegers, especially when you do 2/3rds of your starts in the defensive zone. You have far less time to make those decisions. Look what happened when Claesson and Wideman were moved out of sheltered roles. Even Harper fits that description. It is a huge jump from a sheltered role to a mid role, much less what Ottawa throws Ceci in night in and out.

The truth is I am not entirely sure what Ceci is at this point. Put into a spot like Karlsson was here, he could easily be a 40+ point D man, the data points to it being possible, perhaps even likely. But we just do not know. And defensively he is not an elite shutdown D, but he has shown enough savvy against the elite offensive players, that its likely he can play against 2nd/3rd line and be a very solid option against them. And the worst thing is that while being miscast here, he would likely be miscast on half the teams in the league, RHD is a position of such weakness for so many teams.[/QUOTE]
Two excellent posts. People don't realize how much more difficult it is to play against the other team's best players night after night. Ceci has been miscast here because there was no one else who could play that role better on this team & eat up the minutes he can. He's the best example as to why the Sens need a couple of shutdown D because the defence they have are going to be dominated in the defensive zone.

The Sens new young defencemen may be faster & more skilled but they are not stronger & are not going to win as many board battles & IMO will cough up the puck more. If they can acquire some shutdown D help they could move Ceci into a proper role & he could be more productive at both ends of the ice. He has a lot of tools, but I do agree that his decision making requires more time than he has playing against the other team's best players. Playing against other team's lesser players would certainly help him be a better player but then again he would also have to command less money. I think if Ceci doesn't take the contract he is being offered here, that he could be moved before the season starts.
 
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slamigo

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I think Ottawa mis-developed Ceci by trying to turn him into a shut down defender ala Chris Phillips. I think with proper coaching and direction he could be a fine offensive dman. But, I also wouldn’t want to tie up a lot of dollars and term finding out if that will work if I was GM.
 

Matsens15

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Up!

I want to know if somebody saw him play in Belleville this year? If yes let me know how he’s looking in the AHL.
 

toxic poster

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I want to know if somebody saw him play in Belleville this year? If yes let me know how he’s looking in the AHL.
meh. hasn't really improved in any capacity but he's probably been their steadiest defender so far throughout the season. the team is incredibly weak on the back-end and i hate the style of play that Mann is employing right now. i don't think forwards come back far enough into the zone on breakouts, defenders aren't willing to take risks and jump into the rush. he should probably be in the nhl given how he played last season and what would be best for his development but we shouldn't rush to right him off based on his point totals so far in the season, at the very least.
 

Matsens15

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meh. hasn't really improved in any capacity but he's probably been their steadiest defender so far throughout the season. the team is incredibly weak on the back-end and i hate the style of play that Mann is employing right now. i don't think forwards come back far enough into the zone on breakouts, defenders aren't willing to take risks and jump into the rush. he should probably be in the nhl given how he played last season and what would be best for his development but we shouldn't rush to right him off based on his point totals so far in the season, at the very least.

ok thank you!! We should send Brannstrom down and give a couple game to Jaros. I know he had a terrible camp but he was good and steady last year.
 
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