Chris Kelly

[MTaylorJ1]

The problem is, Kelly can play a solid game - spark a perfect PK, get his stick in passing lanes, screen a goalie for a Smith or Krug goal, prevent several neutral zone turnovers, etc. - and he won't get credit because none of it will show up on the stat sheet. So people who want to run him down will always be "right" - his stats aren't there, he won't make the highlight reels, and "I didn't see him do anything." So it may be an entertaining argument, but it's a fruitless one.

All of those things aside from PK would show up in his +/-. It's been the worst of any regular still on the team since the lockout.

Again, Campbell is part of a perfect PK, get's his stick (and leg) in passing/shooting lanes, screens goalies, prevents turnovers, and produces like Kelly. Campbell's our 4th line center. So now we're praising Kelly for doing all of the things a 4th line center does, but doing it with 3rd line minutes and linemates?

Would I prefer our choice not be rookie Ryan Spooner vs. current version of Chris Kelly? Absolutely. My argument has always been and will continually be, I want to see if we can get something better with that line (our worst in cumulative +/-) before the deadline so we know whether we need to attempt to make an upgrade (if Kelly's going to keep on his current pace, we do need to at least attempt this), if the deadline goes by, Spooner isn't ready, and no good deal for a better 3LC (likely someone else's 2LC) doesn't present itself, then you return to the current lineup and things will be fine. Fine is just that. It's good. It could be better. I don't think it makes me a bad fan to look at one area of the team (that's underperformed since the lockout) and want to attempt for better.

 

[qc]

Your underestimating how good this team really is... PC did this. ..Does Claude's system work ? Yes never said it didn't ..it would also work if he was coaching a less skilled team. I'm saying let the reins off the team more often so they can think offensively a bit more, basically everyone should know what's expected he's been here long enough.


GAA per game you can thank Tuukka

Amen on Tuukka, I agree that he's been amazing. But I still fully disagree with the notion that this team is "boring" and "not offensive" enough. It's kind of a myth of the past, to me anyway.

10th in the league in goals for, first in the league in goals against, and our powerplay is pushing 20% where, in past seasons, we'd be lucky to see it over 10%. As far as "letting the reins off," how can you say that we haven't? You see how often Krug and Dougie jump into the offense? Did you see the 3 forwards and Krug unit in overtime vs. Pit? Is that something a boring defensive-minded coach does? I don't think so.

This team is balanced perfectly, enjoy it while you can. Apparently you weren't following this team during our dark ages; I can assure you, it wasn't very fun.

 

[MTaylorJ1]

Amen on Tuukka, I agree that he's been amazing. But I still fully disagree with the notion that this team is "boring" and "not offensive" enough. It's kind of a myth of the past, to me anyway.

10th in the league in goals for, first in the league in goals against, and our powerplay is pushing 20% where, in past seasons, we'd be lucky to see it over 10%. As far as "letting the reins off," how can you say that we haven't? You see how often Krug and Dougie jump into the offense? Did you see the 3 forwards and Krug unit in overtime vs. Pit? Is that something a boring defensive-minded coach does? I don't think so.

This team is balanced perfectly, enjoy it while you can. Apparently you weren't following this team during our dark ages; I can assure you, it wasn't very fun.

I think the 3 forwards in OT is so his goalie doesn't injure himself flipping out after shootouts from now on. We're going to win or lose it in these 5 minutes and protect our Vezina level goaltender from Finnish Death Metal raging after SO goals.

10th in the league is pretty good. Ideally I think you want to be in the top 5 in both areas as a Stanley Cup contender. To get there that's nearly a half a goal a game (which is easily attainable with a positive regression from Marchand and the offensive upgrade of Spooner over Kelly and Kelly over Thornton). (Basically Spooner over Thornton).

 

[Artemis]

The problem is that you lack any objectivity when discussing players and evaluating their games, because whatever the front office or Claude wants, you back 100%. You also seem to think everything is a personal attack on the guy, when it's not. I see Kelly being a step late consistently in the offensive zone over the last two years, and you interpret that as me wanting to run him out of town. I don't want him gone from the team, but I do want him off the third line. That's a very big distinction you seem to be constantly missing.

What you're missing is the assertion that I "back Claude 100%." Just because I don't routinely slam this team doesn't mean I wholeheartedly back everything he or the F.O. does. I will, however, concede that they know hockey, and their team, better than I do. Radical concept I know.

And where did I say I think you want him run out of town? Yet another assumption.

SoM has already pointed out that you routinely move the goalposts around. I'm just noting that it's easy to discredit a player like Kelly, because he's not a player who will ever dominate a stat sheet. His contributions are of the sort that teammates and coaches appreciate, fans not so much.

 

[Glove Malfunction]

No, the contract is only reflective of how grossly overpaid he is for what he actually is. Two very separate subjects. The reason the contract is a problem is that they overpaid for a bottom six guy, when cheaper alternatives could have been had that wouldn't have been long term deals, thus blocking the young guys they have coming up. His skill as a player during the contract has also dropped off, which compounds the bad deal even further.

So there are two parts to this discussion. The contract, and his play during that extension. Both are bad, and they're intertwined, but it's an amalgamation of each that make it unpalatable. However, it's his play that I have issue with for the third line. If he was on the 4th line instead of Campbell, I could at least live with his overpayment.

I still think you're wrong on his place on the 3rd line, but we'll just have to disagree.

The contract also factors in the importance the team places on leadership and locker room chemistry - none of which either one of us has any sort of window into. but the fact that he's been wearing an "A" for some time tells me that his contributions to those "intangibles" is worth something to the team, and that's at least partly reflected in the contract - they paid what they felt they needed to in order to keep him her.

 

[Artemis]

Amen on Tuukka, I agree that he's been amazing. But I still fully disagree with the notion that this team is "boring" and "not offensive" enough. It's kind of a myth of the past, to me anyway.

10th in the league in goals for, first in the league in goals against, and our powerplay is pushing 20% where, in past seasons, we'd be lucky to see it over 10%. As far as "letting the reins off," how can you say that we haven't? You see how often Krug and Dougie jump into the offense? Did you see the 3 forwards and Krug unit in overtime vs. Pit? Is that something a boring defensive-minded coach does? I don't think so.

This team is balanced perfectly, enjoy it while you can. Apparently you weren't following this team during our dark ages; I can assure you, it wasn't very fun.

It's funny to look at other teams' boards and see how envied/respected the Bruins are (other than Montreal and Vancouver of course) for being a tough, well-coached team, then see posts here complaining about them. These are indeed the good old days. Enjoy, folks.

 

[LavioletteScores]

Amen on Tuukka, I agree that he's been amazing. But I still fully disagree with the notion that this team is "boring" and "not offensive" enough. It's kind of a myth of the past, to me anyway.

10th in the league in goals for, first in the league in goals against, and our powerplay is pushing 20% where, in past seasons, we'd be lucky to see it over 10%. As far as "letting the reins off," how can you say that we haven't? You see how often Krug and Dougie jump into the offense? Did you see the 3 forwards and Krug unit in overtime vs. Pit? Is that something a boring defensive-minded coach does? I don't think so.

This team is balanced perfectly, enjoy it while you can. Apparently you weren't following this team during our dark ages; I can assure you, it wasn't very fun.

Perfect summation. The 09-10 season was worse than a trip to the dentist.

 

[MTaylorJ1]

It's funny to look at other teams' boards and see how envied/respected the Bruins are (other than Montreal and Vancouver of course) for being a tough, well-coached team, then see posts here complaining about them. These are indeed the good old days. Enjoy, folks.

I love our team. L-O-V-E. Not like, love. Does that mean I can't look for things to improve on it? Seems foolish. Very possible to watch a game as it's happening, enjoy it because it's the only time all week I sit and watch TV (+ the Patriots), but still have a critical eye to what could be better.

The trouble with a cup window is that it's the time period of fandom where good, but not quite good enough hurts the most.

Did I enjoy the 2005-2012 Patriots more than the 1994-2001 Patriots? Absolutely. Did I feel the 1 or 2 small things they could have tried or done better hurt more? You bet. It's opportunity cost.

 

[Artemis]

I love our team. L-O-V-E. Not like, love. Does that mean I can't look for things to improve on it? Seems foolish. Very possible to watch a game as it's happening, enjoy it because it's the only time all week I sit and watch TV (+ the Patriots), but still have a critical eye to what could be better.

The trouble with a cup window is that it's the time period of fandom where good, but not quite good enough hurts the most.

Did I enjoy the 2005-2012 Patriots more than the 1994-2001 Patriots? Absolutely. Did I feel the 1 or 2 small things they could have tried or done better hurt more? You bet. It's opportunity cost.

There is a huge difference between discussing a team's options for improvement, and whining.

To be topical, you can compare it to Thanksgiving dinner: "Some more butter might make the mashed potatoes creamier" vs. "You always make the potatoes wrong, I hate them! Why can't we have Aunt Marge's potatoes!? Waaaaah!!"

 

[MTaylorJ1]

There is a huge difference between discussing a team's options for improvement, and whining.

To be topical, you can compare it to Thanksgiving dinner: "Some more butter might make the mashed potatoes creamier" vs. "You always make the potatoes wrong, I hate them! Why can't we have Aunt Marge's potatoes!? Waaaaah!!"

But here's the thing. I think most in this thread are doing the former. I haven't see a lot of "I hate Chris Kelly" "Get rid of Kelly", "Get rid of Claude for always playing Kelly"

I see much more of "If Kelly is going to continue to produce like Campbell, I'd prefer him in Campbell's role" or "I'd like to see the 3rd line be entirely offensive and the 4th line entirely defensive".

I really liked the mashed potatoes we had in 08-09, you should use that recipe. If you add that to the turkey, stuffing, and cranberry sauce we had in 10-11 and 12-13 it would be my favorite Thanksgiving yet.

 

[member 96824]

There is a huge difference between discussing a team's options for improvement, and whining.

To be topical, you can compare it to Thanksgiving dinner: "Some more butter might make the mashed potatoes creamier" vs. "You always make the potatoes wrong, I hate them! Why can't we have Aunt Marge's potatoes!? Waaaaah!!"

It does sound like that absolutely, but I think it's not in the direction you want. It's been more

"Could I have some butter for these mashed potatoes"

"Why do you want to get rid of the mashed potatoes?!"

Or on the Holiday theme..this.

"Some butter would really compliment the mashed potatoes"

"Right..The cook clearly doesn't know what he's doing Thankfully, the cook does his job and the family just eats"

 

[Mr. Make-Believe]

...

If I make it in time, these last three quotes together are a wonderful exchange.

 

[PatriceBergeronFan]

What I see from Kelly is a player who perpetually is cheating back on defense, instead of jumping up in the play. I see a guy who worries more about getting burned than playing the game the way it should be. He's tentative. He's focused on defense, and it's at the expense of his line mates. His skating has also seemed to drop off and he looks slow. At the end of the day, I'm not saying there isn't a spot for him on this team. There is. It's just not on the 3rd line.

Nailed it, it's how I, as a Kelly hater, sees it too.

 

[BergyWho37]

There is a huge difference between discussing a team's options for improvement, and whining.

To be topical, you can compare it to Thanksgiving dinner: "Some more butter might make the mashed potatoes creamier" vs. "You always make the potatoes wrong, I hate them! Why can't we have Aunt Marge's potatoes!? Waaaaah!!"

This is a discussion board for Hockey ! Everyone has right to say what they want. Just like I have to read this BS post ..

 

[Artemis]

But here's the thing. I think most in this thread are doing the former. I haven't see a lot of "I hate Chris Kelly" "Get rid of Kelly", "Get rid of Claude for always playing Kelly"

I see much more of "If Kelly is going to continue to produce like Campbell, I'd prefer him in Campbell's role" or "I'd like to see the 3rd line be entirely offensive and the 4th line entirely defensive".

I really liked the mashed potatoes we had in 08-09, you should use that recipe. If you add that to the turkey, stuffing, and cranberry sauce we had in 10-11 and 12-13 it would be my favorite Thanksgiving yet.

To clarify, I was speaking mostly in general terms, and referencing QC's post, in which he refuted a claim that the Bruins were dull and defensively obsessed.

 

[MTaylorJ1]

To clarify, I was speaking mostly in general terms, and referencing QC's post, in which he refuted a claim that the Bruins were dull and defensively obsessed.

That's fine. It's possible I'm sensitive lately. I feel like people are painting me as a whiner, even though there's only one player on the current roster I want to move out of the lineup (and it's not Chris Kelly). Seems about as far from whining as you could get without actually being Chiarelli or Julien.

 

[Artemis]

This is a discussion board for Hockey ! Everyone has right to say what they want. Just like I have to read this BS post ..

Yes, I know. Discussion is fine, great, it's what HF is for. Whining is annoying and childish. If you can't tell the difference, I don't know what to tell you.

And HF has an ignore feature. You have the right to use it.

 

[BergyWho37]

Amen on Tuukka, I agree that he's been amazing. But I still fully disagree with the notion that this team is "boring" and "not offensive" enough. It's kind of a myth of the past, to me anyway.

10th in the league in goals for, first in the league in goals against, and our powerplay is pushing 20% where, in past seasons, we'd be lucky to see it over 10%. As far as "letting the reins off," how can you say that we haven't? You see how often Krug and Dougie jump into the offense? Did you see the 3 forwards and Krug unit in overtime vs. Pit? Is that something a boring defensive-minded coach does? I don't think so.

This team is balanced perfectly, enjoy it while you can. Apparently you weren't following this team during our dark ages; I can assure you, it wasn't very fun.

I've been a Bruins fan for 30 years so yes I was here for the bad. Yes Claude has changed things on PP over the years and now it's starting to work and that's mostly cause of Krug making other players to move on PP instead of the stationary PP we've seen years before when Chara was trying to do bump passes to the wings instead of skating with it and make others adjust there position for an open lane

Your missing a key factor in all this our Defence is scoring at a high rate

 

[bruinsfan46]

What's so wrong about having a defensive third line centre? As I pointed out a couple pages ago, he starts a larger percentage of his shifts in the defensive zone than anybody on the Bruins (37% of his shifts start in the defensive zone compared to offensive zone, neutral zone is ignored) and he's a penalty killer, that's the definition of a defensive forward. I really don't understand why the Bruins need three scoring lines, first in the league in GA/G and tenth in G/G with Brad Marchand's head firmly up his ass most of the season and Loui only coming around post-concussion. It's a damn good mix of offense/defense in Boston right now. Soderberg/Smith are making the third line a scoring line, despite the anchor or whatever you want to call him.

 

[MTaylorJ1]

What's so wrong about having a defensive third line centre? As I pointed out a couple pages ago, he starts a larger percentage of his shifts in the defensive zone than anybody on the Bruins (37% of his shifts start in the defensive zone compared to offensive zone, neutral zone is ignored) and he's a penalty killer, that's the definition of a defensive forward. I really don't understand why the Bruins need three scoring lines, first in the league in GA/G and tenth in G/G with Brad Marchand's head firmly up his ass most of the season and Loui only coming around post-concussion. It's a damn good mix of offense/defense in Boston right now. Soderberg/Smith are making the third line a scoring line, despite the anchor or whatever you want to call him.

I wouldn't necessarily say there's anything wrong with it, it's just not my preference. I'd rather they move out Thornton (57% offensive zone starts), move Kelly to a wholly defensive line, and either bring in a true two way player, or bring up a player who could develop into an offensive plus and shelter that line as much as possible with their usage rather than by playing a defensive specialist with them.

No guarantee any of it works, but the 10th in GPG is enough that I'd want to try it. The goal should be to be top 5 in both of those categories.

 

[Trap Jesus]

There's no way I'd move Kelly. He's our second best defensive forward and easily our second best PK forward (both behind Bergeron). That said, I wouldn't mind bumping him down to the 4th line with Paille and Campbell (hopefully he can play RW?) eventually. It's crazy to right now though due to both lines playing so well.

 

[qc]

Your missing a key factor in all this our Defence is scoring at a high rate

What am I missing? Were you only referring to offensive production from forwards? You said, "we get boring games from a fans prospective cause nobody's thinking offence and the bruins are not always skating fast enough to create offence by accident."

So I pointed out to you that our offense is better than you think, and it is. Our defensemen scoring at a high rate further proves my point.

Now, if you're suggesting that our forwards could be contributing more to our scoring, then I can't disagree. But all things considered, Claude has adjusted to accommodate the offensive talent of our d-men, and we are scoring at a decent enough rate as a team.

And TBH, I'm extremely impressed and pleasantly surprised with how he's adjusted to this year's roster.. as we all know, he can be a bit late to the game when it comes to coaching adjustments.

 

[Buckets and Gloves]

There's no way I'd move Kelly. He's our second best defensive forward and easily our second best PK forward (both behind Bergeron). That said, I wouldn't mind bumping him down to the 4th line with Paille and Campbell (hopefully he can play RW?) eventually. It's crazy to right now though due to both lines playing so well.

I move him next year, but for sure keep him this year.

Need Spoons up next year, maybe we can flip Kelly for a mid to late 2nd at the draft.

 

[patty59]

Yes, I know. Discussion is fine, great, it's what HF is for. Whining is annoying and childish. If you can't tell the difference, I don't know what to tell you.

And HF has an ignore feature. You have the right to use it.

Whining? I only see one person doing that in this thread.

 

[BergyWho37]

What am I missing? Were you only referring to offensive production from forwards? You said, "we get boring games from a fans prospective cause nobody's thinking offence and the bruins are not always skating fast enough to create offence by accident."

So I pointed out to you that our offense is better than you think, and it is. Our defensemen scoring at a high rate further proves my point.

Now, if you're suggesting that our forwards could be contributing more to our scoring, then I can't disagree. But all things considered, Claude has adjusted to accommodate the offensive talent of our d-men, and we are scoring at a decent enough rate as a team.

And TBH, I'm extremely impressed and pleasantly surprised with how he's adjusted to this year's roster.. as we all know, he can be a bit late to the game when it comes to coaching adjustments.

Okay this is getting messy and you've made points to my OP ..then we broke off from that topic cause I was commenting to your reason of why you think Claude has let the reins off ..I'm stating there has been boring games over the years and yes the past was worse cause we didn't have the skill we have now.

I also said we have a lot more to bring on the offensive side and sure we could put more blame on the players I guess but it seems like something else is holding them back.