Cholowski's Ceiling

[Shaman464]

I think Cholowski's ceiling is a Norris-caliber defenceman. More I watch him, I get to this conclusion of his maximum potential.

He is just that swiss army knife which can do everything. And it looks easy.

This is the type of hyperbole that is counter productive. He looks like a #3 so far. A guy who can anchor a pairing, provide offense, but not a defensive stalwart, and definitely not a Norris candidate.

 

[SirloinUB]

This is the type of hyperbole that is counter productive. He looks like a #3 so far. A guy who can anchor a pairing, provide offense, but not a defensive stalwart, and definitely not a Norris candidate.

I disagree. There is a difference between potential ceiling and "most likely outcome/development path." Based of his Hockey IQ, Skating and overall skill his potential ceiling is definitely higher than a #3. It's certainly possible that Cholowski never reaches his potential of a true 1st pairing D but nonetheless, the potential is there.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

I think Cholowski's ceiling is a Norris-caliber defenceman. More I watch him, I get to this conclusion of his maximum potential.

He is just that swiss army knife which can do everything. And it looks easy.

This is from seeing him in 5 preseason games, correct?

I disagree. There is a difference between potential ceiling and "most likely outcome/development path." Based of his Hockey IQ, Skating and overall skill his potential ceiling is definitely higher than a #3. It's certainly possible that Cholowski never reaches his potential of a true 1st pairing D but nonetheless, the potential is there.

Then isn't that every halfway promising prospect's ceiling?

 

[Shaman464]

I disagree. There is a difference between potential ceiling and "most likely outcome/development path." Based of his Hockey IQ, Skating and overall skill his potential ceiling is definitely higher than a #3. It's certainly possible that Cholowski never reaches his potential of a true 1st pairing D but nonetheless, the potential is there.

I have the potential to win the lottery by buying a single lottery ticket. I have the potential of dying of being hit by a meteor.

Cholo has the potential to get a sex change and win Miss America. Doesn't make it even a remote possibility, so fundamentally there is no potential. The chances of him becoming a #1, let alone a Norris caliber one, is about the same as all other listed potentials.

 

[SirloinUB]

Then isn't that every halfway promising prospect's ceiling?

Maybe to an extent if we want to throw nuance out the window. However, we have several "halfway promising prospects" on the back end and I would say only Cholo, and maybe Hronek truly have the potential of playing on the first pairing.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Hehe, you make him sounds kinda like this guy:

TheHockeyNews

Smooth skating, great mobility, good vision, soft hands. That's also how Brendan Smith was described when we drafted him.

Point being, Cholowski has played 1 AHL game and 5 preseason games. Can we just let him be Cholowski and watch him develop as he plays actual games before he's dubbed the next Norris contender (and inevitable backlash if he doesn't become that)?

I know it sounds negative but it's rooted in hearing years and years of this stuff about prospects going all the way back to Yves Racine (who we drafted over Joe Saki, by the way). Then them getting trashed when they don't live up to the hype.

How about we just watch the kid play some games ?

 

[Henkka]

Love you guys who still haven't got over the faith of Smith and Kindl.

 

[raymond23]

Smooth skating, great mobility, good vision, soft hands. That's also how Brendan Smith was described when we drafted him.

Point being, Cholowski has played 1 AHL game and 5 preseason games. Can we just let him be Cholowski and watch him develop as he plays actual games before he's dubbed the next Norris contender (and inevitable backlash if he doesn't become that)?

I know it sounds negative but it's rooted in hearing years and years of this stuff about prospects going all the way back to Yves Racine (who we drafted over Joe Saki, by the way). Then them getting trashed when they don't live up to the hype.

How about we just watch the kid play some games ?

Your on a discussion board. That's not gonna happen

 

[datsyukfan]

I’ve been saying it for a while, maybe not so much on these boards, but Cholowski has top pair potential. He has mad some mistakes in preseason like everyone, but the kid is super smart and will figure it out. They told him he needs to gain weight and strength the last two years and he did exactly that each year. I think he could step into Detroit now and within a month limit his mistakes a ton and be a top 4 dman.

If we are being honest with ourselves I don’t see how cholo isn’t a top 4 right now in Detroit. Kid looks fantastic. I know it’s preseason but he’s played against some really good players in preseason and has stood out in all facets

 

[Pavels Dog]

This is from seeing him in 5 preseason games, correct?


Then isn't that every halfway promising prospect's ceiling?

Tbh I’ve seen top-pairing and even #1D potential in him since he was drafted. Reading between the lines that’s largely why Wings passed on Chychrun and went with Cholo and everytime I’ve watched Dennis it has reinforced my belief that his upside is huge.

Smooth-skater, highly intelligent, poised like few, high-level passer, offensive tools good enough to run a PP? People either vastly overrate what a top-pairing D is or vastly underrate Cholowski’s potential. 2nd pair D now looks like a safe bet, and do we really think this skinny 20 year old is done developing?

 

[jkutswings]

Tbh I’ve seen top-pairing and even #1D potential in him since he was drafted. Reading between the lines that’s largely why Wings passed on Chychrun and went with Cholo and everytime I’ve watched Dennis it has reinforced my belief that his upside is huge.

Smooth-skater, highly intelligent, poised like few, high-level passer, offensive tools good enough to run a PP? People either vastly overrate what a top-pairing D is or vastly underrate Cholowski’s potential. 2nd pair D now looks like a safe bet, and do we really think this skinny 20 year old is done developing?

Maybe now you can make that argument, but when he was drafted, he looked like a 12 year old that had slim to no odds of ever being physically capable of handling NHL opposition.

Cholowski has developed quite a bit since that Chychrun trade.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Love you guys who still haven't got over the faith of Smith and Kindl.

Love you guys who think this is about Smith and Kindl and not calling a 20 year-old prospect a potential Norris caliber defenseman after 5 pre-season games.

 

[Henkka]

Love you guys who think this is about Smith and Kindl and not calling a 20 year-old prospect a potential Norris caliber defenseman after 5 pre-season games.

We are talking about ceiling. Not the 100% sure outcome.

 

[Henkka]

Maybe now you can make that argument, but when he was drafted, he looked like a 12 year old that had slim to no odds of ever being physically capable of handling NHL opposition.

Cholowski has developed quite a bit since that Chychrun trade.

Yep. That was a gamble and Tyler Wright said that himself. They knew Cholowski was a gamble, final result would depend how would his physical development go. There was no question about his skills, but he could have left to be 5'9 and 150lbs midget.

 

[obey86]

Maybe now you can make that argument, but when he was drafted, he looked like a 12 year old that had slim to no odds of ever being physically capable of handling NHL opposition.

Cholowski has developed quite a bit since that Chychrun trade.

Only to people who thought that 18 years old stop growing/developing as soon as they are drafted.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

We are talking about ceiling. Not the 100% sure outcome.

There is no 100% sure outcome with any player, let alone a 20 year old defenseman who's not even really played in the AHL.

As I said, most halfway decent defensemen prospects have a ceiling of becoming a Norris-calibre defenseman.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

Tbh I’ve seen top-pairing and even #1D potential in him since he was drafted. Reading between the lines that’s largely why Wings passed on Chychrun and went with Cholo and everytime I’ve watched Dennis it has reinforced my belief that his upside is huge.

Smooth-skater, highly intelligent, poised like few, high-level passer, offensive tools good enough to run a PP? People either vastly overrate what a top-pairing D is or vastly underrate Cholowski’s potential. 2nd pair D now looks like a safe bet, and do we really think this skinny 20 year old is done developing?

You would rather have him over Chychrun if they are both healthy? I wouldnt

 

[Henkka]

You would rather have him over Chychrun if they are both healthy? I wouldnt

I would rather take a guy with Oliver Ekman-Larsson potential, than Chychrun potential.

 

[Snuggs]

I like Cholowski, not Norris trophy material to me. But if you like someone like Dan Hamhuis then I think people will like Cholowski. Not a top pairing guy but should be a solid pairing on the second unit or really strong as the third pairing.

He looks like a good player, it'll be interesting to see what the Red Wings exactly do with Cholowski, Hicketts, Sulak, and Hronek.

I suspect some defense will be moved by the deadline this year, and I'd almost waive Ericsson at this point.

 

[jkutswings]

Only to people who thought that 18 years old stop growing/developing as soon as they are drafted.

I never said he would stop growing. But he was a twig of a kid. And that was after a major growth spurt during his draft year. The physical development in the last 2-3 years has been almost shocking.

Here's a write up from June 2016:

https://thehockeywriters.com/dennis-cholowski-the-next-ones-nhl-2016-draft-prospect-profile/

 

[datsyukfan]

You would rather have him over Chychrun if they are both healthy? I wouldnt

I’d take cholo over chychrun right now 100%

 

[Dotter]

4/5 seems reasonable. If he's a #3, I'll be ecstatic. Middle pairing PP specialist seems like a fair assessment if he reaches his potential.

 

[datsyukfan]

4/5 seems reasonable. If he's a #3, I'll be ecstatic. Middle pairing PP specialist seems like a fair assessment if he reaches his potential.

I completely disagree. I think he’s going to at least be a 3 and has the potential to be a 1. End of the day I see him as a very good #2

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

I would rather take a guy with Oliver Ekman-Larsson potential, than Chychrun potential.

Who has OEL's potential? Cholo based on preseason games?

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

I’d take cholo over chychrun right now 100%

Based on what?