Cholowski's Ceiling

ThankGord

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Watched most of every game of the prospect tourney and he looks really good. I think he has a shot at the NHL this year. Skates really well and is very patient and poised with the puck. Very strong defensively. Offensively he makes hard passes that some of the young guys couldn't handle but NHLers will be able to. Took a LOT of shots which I'm not mad about. I see him as at least a 2nd pair guy.
 
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WingedWheel1987

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The kid has zero NHL experience. The safest projection is always the worst case scenario, since the vast majority of prospects either straight up bust or end up being worse than their initial projections.

I'm expecting him to be a #3-4 defenseman.
 
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Ezekial

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#3-4 for Cholowski sounds about right. pretty much the exact same for Hronek.
I think he's going to be a 3 or 4, I think the disconnect I have with people is that I would define ceiling as the absolute best possible outcome for the player if everything goes right. So I would say his ceiling is top pair, but the expectation is middle pair.
That's not to say all players have top line/pair/etc potential because everything could go right for everyone, but as far as Cholowski is concerned I think he can.
 
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WesNichols14

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Don't forget that his one f the oldest players at turnament

No hes not. That tourny had players who were on tryouts after graduating college. It had players who had spent time in the ahl and pro Europe leagues. Cholo was likely right in the middle. Either way he was one of the top 3 defenseman in that tourney, and that speaks to having a higher ceiling than what Jonathan Erikson is now.
 

Ezekial

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Corey Pronman released his top 100 prospects today
Zadina (6)
Veleno (43)
Rasmussen (52)
Hronek (58)
Berggren (66)
Filip Larsson (HM)





Cholowski, not mentioned.
tenor.gif
 
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haulinbass

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Don't forget that his one f the oldest players at turnament

This is something that can't be overlooked when trying to gauge a player at a tournament like this. Cholowski struggled not so long ago producing offense in the NCAA.

With that said, I think he looked great. Detroits best player in this tournament without a doubt. But really, he and Rasmussen should be Detroit's best players. Its tough to say exactly where he is in terms of NHL readiness until we seen him against pros. I do feel pretty good about this kids future. His IQ and skating are obviously top notch. But I think he likely needs atleast a full season in Grand Rapids to adjust and continue physically maturing. I think Cholowski certainly has top pairing upside and ability to play the PP. Maybe not a true PP1 guy but for sure PP2 caliber.
 

lomekian

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This is something that can't be overlooked when trying to gauge a player at a tournament like this. Cholowski struggled not so long ago producing offense in the NCAA.

With that said, I think he looked great. Detroits best player in this tournament without a doubt. But really, he and Rasmussen should be Detroit's best players. Its tough to say exactly where he is in terms of NHL readiness until we seen him against pros. I do feel pretty good about this kids future. His IQ and skating are obviously top notch. But I think he likely needs atleast a full season in Grand Rapids to adjust and continue physically maturing. I think Cholowski certainly has top pairing upside and ability to play the PP. Maybe not a true PP1 guy but for sure PP2 caliber.

It would be wrong to overlook it were it true. Just taking pure facts, he is younger than the average age of attendees at the tournament. I know you weren't bad mouthing him, and were following on from a point made elsewhere, but on more than just HF I've seen this to downplay his impact. The lack of pro experience is entirely valid to raise as a fact to temper expectations, but his has been the best showing by a Wings Dman at a prospect tournament in a very long time.
 
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Frk It

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Corey Pronman released his top 100 prospects today
Zadina (6)
Veleno (43)
Rasmussen (52)
Hronek (58)
Berggren (66)
Filip Larsson (HM)





Cholowski, not mentioned.
tenor.gif

5 guys in the top 75 is good.
 

Jon Cusack

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Was a lot better offensively and not as stout defensively as I was expecting. Sure gets a lot of shots on net which was good to see.
 

Oddbob

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In what universe is or was Dylan Larkin a power forward as Pronman says??? Literally never heard of this guy until last year, and from the little I have read about his scouting opinion, he kind of sucks at it.

If Cholo is only as high as DDK 2.0, trade him now, RIGHT NOW! We don't need anymore 5 million dollar 6th d-men. If he lands at a 6th d, that will be Smith, Ouellet, Kindl kind of disappointing.
 

vladdy16

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The following was posted by Pronman on The Athletic this morning.

Dennis Cholowski, D
Cholowski was Detroit’s best defenseman and stood out consistently due to his mobility and puck-moving ability. He impacted the transition game and ran the top power play unit well, showing more touch with the puck than I remember seeing in past viewings. I know some scouts who were impressed by him in the WHL, and if this is the player he is consistently in the AHL this season, I could see him panning out as a 4-5 defenseman in the NHL.

I was going to wait to post this thread until after the preseason, but this article changed my mind. I find it interesting how Cholowski remains off the radar nationally. I see a huge upside with this kid, minimum top 4 defenseman, possibly top two.

I don't pay much mind to national scouts, or internet scouts, or journalist scouts. They are aggregators, with no mind for the trees in the forest. I'd be less excited about Cholowski if he had a skill set that was easy to identify off hand/on a surface level.

Personally, I think Cholowski is our best prospect by far. So in the spirit of the title of your thread, knowing that I'll probably have to defend replies that aren't taking into the account the definition of ceiling...

Cholowski's ceiling imo, is a perennial all-star, long term captain, HOF defensemen, that transforms our teams puck possession capabilities, and overall game management capabilities.

Of course it's incredibly unlikely that he hits that ceiling, only a handful of guys do every decade.

Don't get it twisted though, Cholowski is on a bit of a tear, as far as hitting landmarks on the way to his ceiling. His experience as a captain, his growth physically, and his assimilation into the top tier of the red wings prospect pool has been very encouraging. On draft day he was a nice project, with a slim chance at stardom. I don't think anyone really foresaw him knocking on the door this soon, or if they did, they'd say it was a definite sign of top pairing potential. I think the odds that he spends the majority of his career on a top pairing are nearing the 50% level already.

I could easily see him plateauing in the near future however, falling just short of an elite skill set, giving you a heady leader for your second pairing. But I could just as easily see him leveraging his IQ, puck management and skating skills into a top pairing possession general.

He's got a shot at Lidstrom/Murphy tier, or maybe he'll always be slightly overmatched by the elite, and sink into the Zubov/Niinamaa/Hamrlik territory(what a steep drop that is overall). Obviously it'd take a miracle of circumstance to actually hit Lidstrom levels of production, but I think Cholowski is a caliber closer to the Lidstroms and Murphy's than he is your average smooth and smart offensive d-man.

Not trying to troll with hyperbole, I've got the utmost respect for the actual accomplishments of past players, and I only mention them because it's fun. I think my claim regarding the pct chances of Cholowski being a no.1 or no.2 is by far the most dubious actual claim I've made in my post.
 

vladdy16

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Ouch, not a Zubov fan eh? He fits much better with the first group than the second.

I'd defer to you there for sure. I knew he was a top pairing guy and did way more with his career than the other 2 guys that plateaud pretty quickly , but I didn't know if he effected the geometry on ice from a tactical standpoint, to the degree murphy and lidstrom did.

In any case, I think it's an interesting trajectory to chart Cholowski on. 5 and 55 stick out to me as guys that were quintessential offensive defensemen, that used their hockey iq and quiet and determined demeanor to develop a foundation to their defensive game that could define the pace of half of a game.

I don't know how many guys were up in that tier with that description, I'd totally buy it if you said that there were large stretches of time where guys like Leetch and Zubov could have that level of impact. I'd say maybe a rare guy like Rafalski would fit into a tweener tier, before you're relegated to having to hide that off.dman a bit on the second pairing, which is where I think a lot of people are saying Cholowski will end up.

I find it encouraging, that though he's a great skating offensive defensemen, Cholowski rarely spends a moment on ice where there aren't all 9 other players in front of him.
 
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burbankmarc

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I'd defer to you there for sure. I knew he was a top pairing guy and did way more with his career than the other 2 guys that plateaud pretty quickly , but I didn't know if he effected the geometry on ice from a tactical standpoint, to the degree murphy and lidstrom did.

In any case, I think it's an interesting trajectory to chart Cholowski on. 5 and 55 stick out to me as guys that were quintessential offensive defensemen, that used their hockey iq and quiet and determined demeanor to develop a foundation to their defensive game that could define the pace of half of a game.

I don't know how many guys were up in that tier with that description, I'd totally buy it if you said that there were large stretches of time where guys like Leetch and Zubov could have that level of impact. I'd say maybe a rare guy like Rafalski would fit into a tweener tier, before you're relegated to having to hide that off.dman a bit on the second pairing, which is where I think a lot of people are saying Cholowski will end up.

I find it encouraging, that though he's a great skating offensive defensemen, Cholowski rarely spends a moment on ice where there aren't all 9 other players in front of him.


Cholowski's playing style, and development remind me of Duncan Keith. Now, Cholowski probably won't have a career as good as Keith's, but it's not out of the realm of possibility.
 

Run the Jewels

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5 guys in the top 75 is good.
And the two best prospects were from this past draft. That draft is the most encouraging thing that has happened to this franchise in a long time. Veleno was moved down to the second line in the prospects tournament game against Columbus and they immediately scored a goal. I think he can be a really good 3rd line center when we're actually good again.
 

Run the Jewels

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I don't see how you can say that, these look, on average, fair. Especially with near consensus that Cholo isn't a top pairing guy.
Cholowski played a huge amount of minutes against Columbus. We also gave up 7 goals. I am not sure how much of that is on Cholowski, but that's obviously something I will keep an eye on as he plays at higher levels.
 

korrowan

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Cholowski played a huge amount of minutes against Columbus. We also gave up 7 goals. I am not sure how much of that is on Cholowski, but that's obviously something I will keep an eye on as he plays at higher levels.

The goalie couldn't save a beach ball. Also, way too many penalties which also hurt the team badly. I am pretty sure you can't take anything away from that game besides that goalie should reconsider his career choice.
 

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