Friedman: Chicago working on a Duncan Keith trade to a Pacific Northwest or Western Canada team

[McDoused]

Oh please! Don't put words in my mouth and don't lecture me about players asking for trades. I don't care what the reason is- if Keith is demanding the Hawks make a bad trade just to accommodate his wishes then he is being selfish.

I'm not putting words in your mouth, that's what you said.

. I’d say Keith was being selfish and unrealistic if that is his expectation.

Of course it's going to be a bad trade for the hawks. Keith is a good player but he just screwed the hawks and his trade value around the league. Literally no other team will give up an asset for a guy who doesnt want to play for them. That makes his value plummet.

If you're Seattle and Edmonton and know that you are the only teams he is willing to go to, then you hold all the leverage. It doesnt matter how good Keith actually is. Edmonton cant just add cap without cap going out, so the expectation on their side is that chicago takes cap back. If they dont want to do that, Edmonon is under no obligation to trade for him. Keith can decide how he wants to proceed from there.

 

[TheNumber4]

Keith retiring and the Hawks taking cap recapture is cheaper than buying him out. And Keith has been treated pretty damn well by the Hawks over his career. It’s not the Hawks job to trade him to the team he wants to play for if it means them taking a bad deal in return. I’d say Keith was being selfish and unrealistic if that is his expectation.

Forcing a player into retirement who's not ready to retire both on a personal and professional level sounds like a pretty selfish and unrealistic expectation on the Hawks end.

Keith is declined but can still play according to Hawks fans. He can't play at a top pairing level, so he's not worth 5.5M per year. Thus he's a liability. His actual worth is probably around 2.5M-4M based on his decline and recent play. That's not even taking into account the risk of him declining even further. So fair market value for Keith is around 3M lets say just for argument sake. If you want value back for Keith you need to offer him up as a fair value contract not an overpaid liability.

 

[cyberpunk]

Keith retires, Keith is bought out, Keith is traded with cap retention. All these options point to hawks getting screwed in one way or another. Keith stays and plays might be the only option left or Krakens take him.

 

[TheNumber4]

Keith retires, Keith is bought out, Keith is traded with cap retention. All these options point to hawks getting screwed in one way or another. Keith stays and plays might be the only option left or Krakens take him.

Hawks don't get screwed. They signed him to that 13 year contract where "being screwed" was built into that contract and negotiation. They had to know the last few years of that contract weren't going to be pretty. They got exactly what they wanted out of that contract and now don't want to take on any of the bad parts of that contract that were built into that contract from day 1.

 

[dj Mahoney]

You thought Holland signed Koskinen and Neal, and so to try to sweep that under the rug and divert attention, you put up a picture of someone the Kings signed and Kassian as a Canuck.

You sure showed us.

Oh I'm sorry I thought Holland traded 2 /2nd rders for AA and signed that Idiot to that stupid contract.

 

[McBooya42]

Keith retires, Keith is bought out, Keith is traded with cap retention. All these options point to hawks getting screwed in one way or another. Keith stays and plays might be the only option left or Krakens take him.

No way in hell Seattle takes him. Not for that full cap hit. Same for Edmonton.

 

[Langdon Alger]

No way in hell Seattle takes him. Not for that full cap hit. Same for Edmonton.

Unless the Oilers send money back.

 

[TFHockey]

There are a couple of Hawk fans on here who seem adamant that Chicago has leverage in a Keith trade and don't have to make a bad deal. I disagree, and I think the facts speak for themselves.

Look at it this way Chicago fans:

Let's say player A is on the Oilers roster. Player A is 38 years old in a few days. He is probably a Hall of Famer but his NHL career is winding down. He has two years left at $5.5 Million AAV.

Player A has a full NMC and has requested a trade and has told the Oilers he will only play in two cities for personal reasons.

The Oilers in this instance don't have a lot of cap room. They are also reported to be big game hunting this offseason for top UFA talent. It is apparent that the Oilers want cap room to do this.

The two teams Player A will go to have some cap room but seem lukewarm on making a deal.

The next few years will be a flat cap league.

Does that sound like the Oilers have leverage?

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

Hawks may not have leverage but they certainly aren't going to be forced to take on that awful Neal deal let alone retaining while doing it as some Oiler fans seem to believe for Keith

 

[bobbythebrain]

Oh please! Don't put words in my mouth and don't lecture me about players asking for trades. I don't care what the reason is- if Keith is demanding the Hawks make a bad trade just to accommodate his wishes then he is being selfish.

Selfish? He stayed with them through the Sharp fiasco and gave them a hometown discount

Nathan Horton left Bos asap for the same thing.

Last thing Keith is being is selfish....they owe him more than he owes them

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

Lol.

You guys have no concept of how good Keith still is.

His caphit is fair for the type of player he is now, rather than being an absolute steal.

Actually, I think Oiler fans have a very good idea what Keith would be like.

 

[Kaners Bald Spot]

Actually, I think Oiler fans have a very good idea what Keith would be like.

Those are team stats.

I don't trust hockey analytics on an individual basis.

 

[McBooya42]

Unless the Oilers send money back.

James Neal then? Sure. Straight across.

 

[McFlash97]

To the Hawks fans who think Chicago could dump Keith without taking a dollar amount back are delusional.

They are taking at least 2 mill back or keep Duncan.

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

To the Hawks fans who think Chicago could dump Keith without taking a dollar amount back are delusional.

They are taking at least 2 mill back or keep Duncan.

Most Hawk fans are open to taking a contract (Koskinen) or retainment on Keith

The problem is many Oiler fans are throwing Neal our way in those scenario's and frankly that doesn't make sense for Hawks or work with Neal's awful contract and 4 years of nearly $2M in dead cap space if bought out

Hawks retaining on Keith while acquiring Neal and buying him out leaves a lot of dead cap room that isn't viable especially if Hawks want to be in Hamilton/other sweepstakes

 

[Kaners Bald Spot]

To the Hawks fans who think Chicago could dump Keith without taking a dollar amount back are delusional.

They are taking at least 2 mill back or keep Duncan.

The Oiler fans that think that Keith isn't at least a #4 and has no value are delusional.

 

[Langdon Alger]

James Neal then? Sure. Straight across.

Chicago does this because?

 

[BudBundy]

Those are team stats.

I don't trust hockey analytics on an individual basis.

How would you feel if they didn’t make Keith look washed up?

 

[BudBundy]

The Oiler fans that think that Keith isn't at least a #4 and has no value are delusional.

With his cap hit and age/decline, is it that delusional? Carey Price is a fantastic goalie, but at his age and cap hit, would you trade for him? Would the Hawks trade for Ryan Suter? Cap hit vs age/performance is a thing.

 

[Kaners Bald Spot]

With his cap hit and age/decline, is it that delusional? Carey Price is a fantastic goalie, but at his age and cap hit, would you trade for him? Would the Hawks trade for Ryan Suter? Cap hit vs age/performance is a thing.

5 years vs 2 is a different story. 2 years is short term and Keith will be fine.

 

[Kaners Bald Spot]

How would you feel if they didn’t make Keith look washed up?

I wouldn't care. You can't individualize on ice performance quantitatively. It's highly dependent on the other 4 skaters and the goalie.

 

[McBooya42]

Chicago does this because?

Because Holland says take it or leave it? No favors man, and Holland's got all the leverage here.

 

[McDoused]

Hawks may not have leverage but they certainly aren't going to be forced to take on that awful Neal deal let alone retaining while doing it as some Oiler fans seem to believe for Keith

That's kind of the point. If they dont want to take back a bad contract or retain salary then Edmonton hangs up the phone. Keep him and buy him out, edmonton doesnt need to do chicago any favours.

Most Hawk fans are open to taking a contract (Koskinen) or retainment on Keith

The problem is many Oiler fans are throwing Neal our way in those scenario's and frankly that doesn't make sense for Hawks or work with Neal's awful contract and 4 years of nearly $2M in dead cap space if bought out

Hawks retaining on Keith while acquiring Neal and buying him out leaves a lot of dead cap room that isn't viable especially if Hawks want to be in Hamilton/other sweepstakes

Chicago would need to take back a contract like Neal's for the cap to work. From edmontons perspective Keith at 3.25 would be pretty equal. They dont have to retain on top of that but I imagine edmonton would add assets for them to do it.

The Oiler fans that think that Keith isn't at least a #4 and has no value are delusional.

Just because Keith can play in the top 4 doesnt mean he has value. The player and the contract are two completely different things. I agree tha Keith can play and has value but in a cap world, it's not the simple. If Edmonton is going to trade for Keith, cap has to go back the other way. If Chicago thinks Edmonton is going to take on 2 years at 5.5 cap hit without cap going back then yeah they arent getting any value for him.

 

[Langdon Alger]

Because Holland says take it or leave it? No favors man, and Holland's got all the leverage here.

Explain to me why Chicago makes this deal. What’s in it for them if they trade Keith for Neal? I understand the Oilers have to send money back. Koskinen might be more appealing to Chicago though. He has one year left on his deal, Neal has two. Edmonton likely still adds something in this deal though.

Kosiken/Neal
Roster player/prospect/pick

it won’t require a huge add on the Oilers side, but I think they have to add something.

 

[Shane Diesel]

I wouldn't care. You can't individualize on ice performance quantitatively. It's highly dependent on the other 4 skaters and the goalie.

Objectively false.