Confirmed with Link: [CHI/VAN] Gustav Forsling traded for Adam Clendening

[Wisp]

That condition on the trade related more to Ehrhoff's value than White's though.

Not sure I follow. Patrick White always represented 2nd round pick in that trade.

 

[Wisp]

There's only three reasons to not like this trade:
1-You feel Forsling is going to be great and Clendening is a sure bust. I don't feel this position can be logically defended. Nothing about their development so far says this is the likely outcome. Could happen, sure. But to be down on this trade because of the likelihood of it is a tad silly.

2-You're sentimental for Forsling. It was fun watching him put up PP points at the WJC and you've grown emotionally attached. The heart wants what it wants, can't argue with that.

3-You're anti-Benning. Chicago is so smart and Benning aw shucks he sure tries his darnedest. But he could have had Garrison and Santorelli and really the same whole team as last year and he drafted guys that are big. D'uh potato head can't make good deals.

There's some intense paranoia at play here and this really nails it. The methodology of this trade is sound, but for many here they can't possibly entertain the possibility that the Canucks could make a trade and not get burned. They will gnash at the details to try and make it fit in their head.

 

[Verviticus]

There's some intense paranoia at play here and this really nails it. The methodology of this trade is sound, but for many here they can't possibly entertain the possibility that the Canucks could make a trade and not get burned. They will gnash at the details to try and make it fit in their head.

i dont feel "forsling is a better prospect than clendening" requires paranoia

i dont actually need to value nhl readiness at anything other than 0. if i was concerned for the long-term, i dont feel getting years out of a player immediately makes that player more valuable

 

[Wisp]

i dont feel "forsling is a better prospect than clendening" requires paranoia

i dont actually need to value nhl readiness at anything other than 0. if i was concerned for the long-term, i dont feel getting years out of a player immediately makes that player more valuable

People keep saying "Years to NHL readiness" with Forsling like it's a guarantee. It is awfully optimistic considering there is a chance he won't succeed in the AHL, let alone the NHL. Look how many Canucks picks come in and can't even crack that.

Clendening has meanwhile succeeded at that level and is ready to transition to the NHL level. Plus he is young enough to possibly develop into a very good player. A bird in hand is worth two in he bush.

I suppose you could argue that Forsling is an unlimited lottery ticket of potential but that is a disingenuous, as the data isn't really there to support him being a better player. Failure and great success are still a possibility for both players but for Clendenning the barrier to entry is dramatically reduced.

 

[Verviticus]

no of course its not a guarantee. i already made my opinions on the trade, im just defending the position that one can think forsling is a more valuable asset based on what they think he will become in the future

 

[Bo Ho*]

Not sure I follow. Patrick White always represented 2nd round pick in that trade.

The second round compensation for Patrick White was to offset the value for gaining Ehrhoff, not because Patrick White was actually worth a second round pick.

 

[Wisp]

The second round compensation for Patrick White was to offset the value for gaining Ehrhoff, not because Patrick White was actually worth a second round pick.

No, as an awful hockey player and an unsigned 1st round pick, the only value he had left to him was that he was due to became a second round pick in the 2012 draft. Neither team involved in the trade saw him as anything more than that and neither intended on signing him.

The San Jose Sharks received the 25th pick of this round (55th overall) as compensation for not signing 2007 first-round draft pick Patrick White.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_NHL_Entry_Draft[34]

 

[me2]

No, as an awful hockey player and an unsigned 1st round pick, the only value he had left to him was that he was due to became a second round pick in the 2012 draft. Neither team involved in the trade saw him as anything more than that and neither intended on signing him.

aren't you both arguing the same point?

 

[vanuck]

aren't you both arguing the same point?

Yeah I should've just used someone like Michael McCarron or Mitch Moroz as an example instead of White, though I'm pretty sure everyone recognizes the point I was making and are just being pedantic because, well, HF.

 

[Frank Garrett]

Welcome to Clan Benning.

 

[Wisp]

aren't you both arguing the same point?

i'm not sure?

 

[Taelin]

Just because Clendening looks 40, doesn't mean he's actually 40 and has no upside left guys.

 

[IntangiBo]

aren't you both arguing the same point?

Sure seems like they are.

 

[deckercky]

no of course its not a guarantee. i already made my opinions on the trade, im just defending the position that one can think forsling is a more valuable asset based on what they think he will become in the future

So you don't factor 'risk of not turning out' in player value? That's really what the difference in 'NHL readiness' between Clendening and Forsling represents - a difference in bottom end play.

 

[ARSix]

You guys have actually watched Clendenning play a couple of NHL games now and you're still not sold that this was a good idea?

I'm baffled. It's early yet but everyone should be pretty stoked based on what they've seen to date.

 

[Wisp]

So you don't factor 'risk of not turning out' in player value? That's really what the difference in 'NHL readiness' between Clendening and Forsling represents - a difference in bottom end play.

There's a mystery box mentality at play here that I really don't identify with. So few NHL prospects succeed you're almost always met with disappointment.

 

[Verviticus]

There's a mystery box mentality at play here that I really don't identify with. So few NHL prospects succeed you're almost always met with disappointment.

?

if they're both bell curves, i see them both centering somewhere between a 4 and a 5 with clendening a little to the left and a lot sharper while forsling is flatter and wider. thats all. i think in a million realities forsling is on average a slightly better player. not by much that it matters a ton which is why my reaction to this trade is muted and i understand from a gms point of view why he wants a Now Person so i havent criticized him - but i think a negative view point of the trade is justifiable.

how nhl ready a prospect is in this view is not really relevant. all time does is focus and move the curve left or right

 

[Diamonddog01]

You guys have actually watched Clendenning play a couple of NHL games now and you're still not sold that this was a good idea?

I'm baffled. It's early yet but everyone should be pretty stoked based on what they've seen to date.

As Alan Jackson astutely noted there are several posters on here who are going to hate each and every single move the team makes. They take 'glass half empty' to a bizarre extreme, and seem unable to separate their personal bias towards Benning from organizational moves.

 

[ARSix]

I mean, personally, I have really disliked a lot of what Benning has done, to a point where I think I'm inherently suspicious of anything he does. But this? This was just taking advantage of a glut of players in another organization where they had to get rid of someone. It's a win. It's basically Linden Vey all over again except better.

 

[Zarpan]

?

if they're both bell curves, i see them both centering somewhere between a 4 and a 5 with clendening a little to the left and a lot sharper while forsling is flatter and wider. thats all. i think in a million realities forsling is on average a slightly better player. not by much that it matters a ton which is why my reaction to this trade is muted and i understand from a gms point of view why he wants a Now Person so i havent criticized him - but i think a negative view point of the trade is justifiable.

how nhl ready a prospect is in this view is not really relevant. all time does is focus and move the curve left or right

That seems like a fair assessment. Pronman switched the bell curves and considered Clendening to be on average a slightly better player when assessing the trade. One can probably say that they are reasonably close on average though.

I don't understand posters who put the average outcome of each player massively apart though. Don't think there's a reasonable way to really love or really hate this trade at this point.

 

[Verviticus]

I mean, personally, I have really disliked a lot of what Benning has done, to a point where I think I'm inherently suspicious of anything he does. But this? This was just taking advantage of a glut of players in another organization where they had to get rid of someone. It's a win. It's basically Linden Vey all over again except better.

sure. the thinking is sound and a good start to hopefully a good style of trade over the next few years. again, i can agree with all of the reasoning and decision making, disagree with the talent evaluation, and come to the conclusion that

A: id prefer not to make the trade
B: it was a well executed trade

they are not exclusive

 

[y2kcanucks]

You guys have actually watched Clendenning play a couple of NHL games now and you're still not sold that this was a good idea?

I'm baffled. It's early yet but everyone should be pretty stoked based on what they've seen to date.

If Clendening were from Sweden people would probably like him better. It seems like people love Swedish players around here, and are loathe whenever we move one. I don't know why. It really has nothing to do with the quality of player. Just an observation I've made of human tendencies to seemingly prefer players from a certain region of the world. People also put way too much stock in a short 8 game tournament. Again, a player plays poorly and everybody craps on him and claims he's a bust. A player puts up big numbers and people fall in love with him and overrate him.

I personally love the trade. I see it as moving a recent 5th round pick who just made a name for himself at the WJC, for a guy who's a couple years older and further in his development, who is more likely to make an impact at the NHL level. It's an excellent trade for the Canucks.

 

[Tobi Wan Kenobi]

If Clendening were from Sweden people would probably like him better. It seems like people love Swedish players around here, and are loathe whenever we move one. I don't know why. It really has nothing to do with the quality of player. Just an observation I've made of human tendencies to seemingly prefer players from a certain region of the world. People also put way too much stock in a short 8 game tournament. Again, a player plays poorly and everybody craps on him and claims he's a bust. A player puts up big numbers and people fall in love with him and overrate him.

I personally love the trade. I see it as moving a recent 5th round pick who just made a name for himself at the WJC, for a guy who's a couple years older and further in his development, who is more likely to make an impact at the NHL level. It's an excellent trade for the Canucks.

I don't always agree with you, that'll always happen with opinions, but this is spot on. It's a clear win for the Canucks. If Clendening can improve his defence a little, which will definitely happen given he's only played 6 games, and be paired with a really dependable defenceman he could be a top 4 guy. Pair him with a left handed (Tanev type) and you have a second pairing right there. Forsling on the other hand would be lucky to reach that. I don't see him translating to the to the NHL that well.

 

[IntangiBo]

why do humans do human things.... beep boop

Well said.

Not sure why y2k cant figure out why this city has a bit of a thing for Swedes. Certainly it's nothing historical. Maybe it's Ikea?

 

[WTG]

Well said.

Not sure why y2k cant figure out why this city has a bit of a thing for Swedes. Certainly it's nothing historical. Maybe it's Ikea?

Pfft I once tried to find the Ikea in Van (I'm not from Van) and it was impossible to find that thing. It's like hidden or something. Took me like 2 hours before giving up