Patriots/NFL Championship Round

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Smitty93

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Dec 6, 2012
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Imagine leaving the Pats to get fired by the Dolphins after one season

That's why I wonder if there's something more to it. The Dolphins offense was bad, but they had no talent, except DeVante Parker, and were much better in their last five games. Unless it was an order from above, you wouldn't think Flores would fire a guy who's been a colleague for 10+ years.

I don't know how assistant coach contracts work, but it wouldn't surprise me if you're not allowed out of them unless it's a clear promotion.

Of course, it could just be that Flores didn't like the fit and already has a replacement. Jim Caldwell was supposed to be on that staff until he took a leave of absence this summer. Wouldn't be surprised to see him take the job.
 

Smitty93

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Dec 6, 2012
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That's why I wonder if there's something more to it. The Dolphins offense was bad, but they had no talent, except DeVante Parker, and were much better in their last five games. Unless it was an order from above, you wouldn't think Flores would fire a guy who's been a colleague for 10+ years.

I don't know how assistant coach contracts work, but it wouldn't surprise me if you're not allowed out of them unless it's a clear promotion.

Of course, it could just be that Flores didn't like the fit and already has a replacement. Jim Caldwell was supposed to be on that staff until he took a leave of absence this summer. Wouldn't be surprised to see him take the job.

Ok, so it sounds like the theory is that the Dolphins were worried about McDaniels taking Schuplinski with him as OC somewhere, so they fired O'Shea with the idea of promoting him.

We'll see if that turns out to be true. Schuplinski has a relationship with McDaniels going back to college, so you'd think he'd rather follow him to his next HC job.
 

McGarnagle

Yes.
Aug 5, 2017
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Chad O'Shea was our red zone guy here the last few years. We'd be foolish not to bring him in as a consultant for the playoffs considering how impotent we've been in the red zone.
 
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GahdenRinkRat

Bruins' Den Mother
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Jan 12, 2008
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By pure luck the Bruins are playing at 1 PM that day
:loony:I thought the B’s had night game and was about to wonder if they would get NHL permission to change the game time....thanks for making me check my schedule...plenty of time to get home from the Gahden and in front of the TV for the Pats ( although I’m predicting the Bruins will more likely win than the Pats...fingers crossed the defense can resurrect their bad, bogeymen selves)
 

DueDiligence

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Nov 16, 2013
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The San Francisco 49ers got Debo Samuel with the 36th pick and acquired Emmanuel Sanders for a 3rd & 4th

We took N'Keal Harry with the 32nd pick and acquired Mohamed Sanu for a 2nd rounder

I love Harry, but imagine how differently this year would've gone if we made the personnel moves that the Niners did
Exactly! I think at draft time the Pats thought they would need a big, possession type receiver like Harry who could block. They had decided they were going to be a running team but then they lost Andrews and Devlin and then Wynn misses half a season. Obviously they had to improvise and upgrade where ever they could. But not sure why they didn't go after Sanders and OJ Howard from Tampa rather than settle for Sanu and Ben Watson. It would have cost more but considering the number of bad draft picks the Pats make I am surprised they wanted to hang onto so many.
 

DueDiligence

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He got a high ankle sprain early on here, and the chatter is that that has limited him. But I see a lot of things that I don't like that aren't explained away by the ankle - like dropping balls right in his hands and a lack of competitiveness on contested balls. Maybe next year's better, or even next week, but I'm not holding out hope.
Sanu runs a lot of routes that are a yard or two short of a first down. Maybe it's his ankle slowing him up but that reeks of little football "smarts".
 
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Troublesome 85

Proud Girl Dad
Dec 28, 2017
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Can talk about people who the Patriots draft but also WRs and TEs would need to jell with TB. I like Harry. Idk if Metcalf, Samuels or etc.......would have helped with Brady faster than Harry. Same can be said for getting Howard and Sanders.
 

Troublesome 85

Proud Girl Dad
Dec 28, 2017
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Would have loved Howard. Idk why the Bucs kept him. Not like they will be good anytime soon. They’re one of those teams that aren’t good enough for playoffs but also don’t suck enough to get a high pick to help.
 
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DueDiligence

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See, I'd disagree with this. The defense had plenty of talent and performed better than anyone could have expected. On offense, it was a combination of bad luck and some decisions backfiring.

Starting with the offensive line, no one could have seen Andrews being out for the year just two weeks before the season. Karras had shown he was a capable backup in the past, and while Andrews' leadership and intelligence are top notch, he's below average in the athletic talent department. Between Brady and 2 other excellent vets on the OL, you would have thought they could have made up for the missed leadership. Then, Wynn gets injured in Week 2, and we hear all the time how few capable offensive linemen there are in the league. Even with all of that, I believe the line was ranked middle of the pack by the various ranking metrics.

I'm going to skip the RBs because that was the same crew as last year, and while people can talk about losing Develin, his impact has always been overrated.

At WR, they really only lost Hogan and Patterson. I'm going to ignore Hogan because I don't think his presence would have done anything this year. With Patterson, that was more of the loss of a gadget player/returner versus an actual WR. They should have been able to replace the gadget plays, and return yards are less important in the new NFL.

With the guys they have, remember, there was a week where this was all this talk about one of the most talent receving corps of all time. Edelman, despite his injuries, is the model of consistency, as he's basically average 6.5 receptions and 70 yards per game each of his 6 years as a starter. They got unlucky that Harry was injured early in training camp. It was a mistake to let go of Demaryius Thomas, but it's not like the guy lit it up with the Jets. Gordon played worse than last year and then was just as unreliable. AB, well, I don't really have to get into that situation. Lastly, Sanu was a guy they'd coveted for years and thought would be perfect for this offense. We all thought he'd be a good addition, but it turns out that he's been putrid. Going back to free agency, we know they tried to get Adam Humphries and Jared Cook, but they both turned them down.

At TE, I'll agree with you that they clearly underestimated how difficult it would be to replace his non-receiving impact, whether it was blocking or drawing coverage.

Finally, Brady. He had a bad year, but it didn't feel like it was a physical talent issue (though who knows how the elbow injury affected things). He just seemed out of it mentally with an incredible amount of terrible decisions. Maybe it was the OL and the skill position personnel, but I'd give him equal blame. For whatever reason, he just couldn't mentally push past the issues this year.

Sorry for the blog-type post, but all of this is to say that I don't think it was a talent issue. I'd put a ton of the blame on the coaching. Scarnecchia couldn't figure out a way to get the OL to improve. They clearly missed Chad O'Shea, since he had run their redzone offense for years. Finally, McDaniels was as bad as he's been in years. He could never figure out what the team was good out and how to make the best of the personnel. Beyond that, the offense has always been great not because of talent but because they could execute the gameplan, and they continuously couldn't this year.
Couple of things:
1) OLine lost Andrews and Trent Brown; with Wynn out and Shaq Mason not playing as well as last year that line dropped a lot in performance.
2) They won last year because they went run first in the latter part of the season. Only with Roberts developing at FB and Wynn back are they even close to last year. But Watson blocking is a joke compared to Gronk.
3) Passing game was suspect last year that's why they went run first. But this year they are much worse. Edelman has been hobbled by injuries and every other receiver is marginal at best. Teams double Edelman now and no one else can consistently shake free. Gronk could beat double teams and JE cannot.
4) I think Brady's elbow is worse than we realize.
 

JRull86

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Its REAL early but looking at this some of the names I want back Brady(of course), Thuney(maybe this down year lowered his next contract), Bethel, DMC(If he doesnt retire), KVN(if not too expensive), Butler, Slater, Shelton, Roberts, Folk and Collins

Really want Collins back

2020 NFL Free Agents Tracker

Imagine thinking Thuney had a down year lmfao.

Easily their best lineman by a mile this year, and one of the top guards in the league
 

Smitty93

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Dec 6, 2012
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Couple of things:
1) OLine lost Andrews and Trent Brown; with Wynn out and Shaq Mason not playing as well as last year that line dropped a lot in performance.
2) They won last year because they went run first in the latter part of the season. Only with Roberts developing at FB and Wynn back are they even close to last year. But Watson blocking is a joke compared to Gronk.
3) Passing game was suspect last year that's why they went run first. But this year they are much worse. Edelman has been hobbled by injuries and every other receiver is marginal at best. Teams double Edelman now and no one else can consistently shake free. Gronk could beat double teams and JE cannot.
4) I think Brady's elbow is worse than we realize.

Meant to include the bolded and add Cannon as two offensive linemen that regressed this year. With Trent Brown, while he was solid last year, I believe most thought that he was at best their 4th best lineman (after Mason, Thuney, and Cannon), though that might speak more to how well those three played in 2018. I don't think going from him to a healthy Isaiah Wynn would have been a step down, but we saw how that went.

Don't necessarily disagree with points 2 or 3, but I was just trying to point out the changes from last year, since the idea was to counter the point about Belichick the GM. Gronk was really the only major loss, and the expectation was that it'd be a bigger loss for the running game than the passing game. As I said, I don't know if they realized how much easier he made it for the rest of the receivers to get open.

With Brady's injury, you're right that we have no idea how bad it is. I'm not sure we know exactly when it occurred, so it's hard to compare his stats pre-injury and post-injury, while also considering the first half of the schedule was much easier than the second half.

It's funny, in many ways they lucked out on the injury front, as Andrews was really the only major season IR loss. I'd add Gostkowski, but Folk has performed admirably. Most of the injuries were more short term or "playable".

In the end, I think lack of execution was their main issue, and that's where I'd blame the coaching.
 

Maine Fan

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Apr 19, 2015
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As I posted elsewhere the Pat's had to have a good overall game and Brady had to have a better than average game for himself to beat Miami. Brady let me/us down. Pats lost. Now against the Titans the same must happen as a team but Brady this time has to play one of his best games of this season. Can he deliver?
He hasn't in the last 6 games.

Go Pats
 

Aeroforce

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Apr 28, 2012
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I've been a bit surprised there hasn't been more made locally about the Buffalo Bills coming to Houston for a playoff game. I've experienced many gut-wrenching losses as a sports fan (including Bruins 2013, 2019), but that Oilers playoff collapse in Buffalo is still the worst.

Though the Falcons folded on a bigger stage against the Patriots (here in Houston no less), Oilers/Bills is still the biggest comeback point wise.

The franchise got revenge with the Music City Miracle, with many players on the Titans who were part of the debacle in Buffalo. But it was still hollow for Houston fans.
 
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CDJ

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As I posted elsewhere the Pat's had to have a good overall game and Brady had to have a better than average game for himself to beat Miami. Brady let me/us down. Pats lost. Now against the Titans the same must happen as a team but Brady this time has to play one of his best games of this season. Can he deliver?
He hasn't in the last 6 games.

Go Pats

I thought he delivered against Buffalo, but that’s splitting hairs
 
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McGarnagle

Yes.
Aug 5, 2017
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I've been a bit surprised there hasn't been more made locally about the Buffalo Bills coming to Houston for a playoff game. I've experienced many gut-wrenching losses as a sports fan (including Bruins 2013, 2019), but that Oilers playoff collapse in Buffalo is still the worst.

Though the Falcons folded on a bigger stage against the Patriots (here in Houston no less), Oilers/Bills is still the biggest comeback point wise.

The franchise got revenge with the Music City Miracle, with many players on the Titans who were part of the debacle in Buffalo. But it was still hollow for Houston fans.

Honestly that should be a real good football game, but it's getting completely ignored by the football media and relegated to the basic cable Saturday afternoon game because they're not sexy teams or big name franchises.

I think Buffalo's defense can give Watson trouble. Question is howJosh Allen moves the ball on the Houston D. I could see it being a low scoring game coming down to a FG at the end of regulation or in OT.
 
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Centrum Hockey

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Honestly that should be a real good football game, but it's getting completely ignored by the football media and relegated to the basic cable Saturday afternoon game because they're not sexy teams or big name franchises.

I think Buffalo's defense can give Watson trouble. Question is howJosh Allen moves the ball on the Houston D. I could see it being a low scoring game coming down to a FG at the end of regulation or in OT.
Buffalo Miami And The NYJ are treated like the Washington Generals by the media especially in New England maybe that will change in the future if one of them ever becomes competent or the pats ever go back to the pack.
 
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