GWT: Champions League Round of 16 Part III
- Thread starter Halladay
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spintheblackcircle
incoming!!!
- Mar 1, 2002
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The Spurs guy wants to see the Spurs team have a chance.. shocking
They can beat anyone. I just want the drama of Manchester-Manchester and Messi-Ronaldo
Duchene2MacKinnon
In the hands of Genius
- Aug 8, 2006
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Sure, they can...
In the Championship maybe... If they started Lamela and Foyth then yeah they'd be on par with Barca but sadly Poch is a terrible countrymen.
How great the German league was this year... Not really but not far off.
I'll start off with the penalty decision. Definitely not a penalty. I even thought it wasn't in real time. I can see the ref getting it wrong, but I can't see how VAR got it wrong. In fact despite two angles making it actually look like it was the correct decision, the angle that @Evilo showed in one of his posts clearly tells you that it's not a penalty. I didn't see the match live, but I checked my phone afterwards while I was still at work and I got some site that said that RMC (? I think that's it) said that the VAR feed wasn't working properly. Even if it wasn't they have to be able to get a clip somewhere and it's disgraceful the penalty was given with VAR in the game. What really is unfortunate is that it happened when it did. At that stage in the match, despite what had already transpired, you simply don't know where it goes. Personally I don't think it decided the tie and I think the result is the same, but again nobody knows. Last night I was actually thinking that I hoped there wasn't a decision like this either. All of that said, on the flip side I thought Denayer's challenge on Messi was a penalty as he went through him and as he did his trailing leg got a touch on the ball. I also think Marcelo was all over Lenglet on the Tousart goal, but stuff like that goes ignored all the time.
Very pleased with the team's performance and I thought it was indeed a team performance. Plenty of commentary could be made on the players, but I'll save it for a couple who don't get a lot from me. Lenglet is the first. I was questioning Umtiti not starting this one, but Lenglet had a good match. He played really well defensively and has settled rather nicely at this point. I think Umtiti should be the starter, but I think he'll have to work to get that spot back. Second guy is Coutinho. Not a great match, but definitely linked up much better in this one. I'll even add Vidal who is starting to look like he belongs and who really worked his socks off. After that I have to give Suarez credit again. He had a really good first half. Looked like he was tired in the second half and he didn't see as much of the play, but he's still so good. Of course I can't not mention the best player on the planet and his goal was Gerry's 6th of the season.
Scoreline was tough on Lyon. Definitely not a reflection of them in this tie. I thought they were definitely better in the first leg, but still had some good runs of play in this one. N'Dombele has definitely impressed me. I can think of a few big clubs he could start at. Can't see Lyon holding on to him much longer.
You should wait for me to help you out. Apart from my commentary on the penalty decision I'll give you another piece of advice. Stop posting.
And that's the difference between you and I.
My initial thought was Juventus, but I'm pretty open. Only thing I just don't want to face Ajax unless it's in the Final and I'd prefer Liverpool or City now as opposed to later.
Bayern isn't much of a scalp right now though.
Very pleased with the team's performance and I thought it was indeed a team performance. Plenty of commentary could be made on the players, but I'll save it for a couple who don't get a lot from me. Lenglet is the first. I was questioning Umtiti not starting this one, but Lenglet had a good match. He played really well defensively and has settled rather nicely at this point. I think Umtiti should be the starter, but I think he'll have to work to get that spot back. Second guy is Coutinho. Not a great match, but definitely linked up much better in this one. I'll even add Vidal who is starting to look like he belongs and who really worked his socks off. After that I have to give Suarez credit again. He had a really good first half. Looked like he was tired in the second half and he didn't see as much of the play, but he's still so good. Of course I can't not mention the best player on the planet and his goal was Gerry's 6th of the season.
Scoreline was tough on Lyon. Definitely not a reflection of them in this tie. I thought they were definitely better in the first leg, but still had some good runs of play in this one. N'Dombele has definitely impressed me. I can think of a few big clubs he could start at. Can't see Lyon holding on to him much longer.
You should wait for me to help you out. Apart from my commentary on the penalty decision I'll give you another piece of advice. Stop posting.
And that's the difference between you and I.
My initial thought was Juventus, but I'm pretty open. Only thing I just don't want to face Ajax unless it's in the Final and I'd prefer Liverpool or City now as opposed to later.
Bayern isn't much of a scalp right now though.
LOL.
Yeah difference between us, or between the contexts.
One was in the favor of your team in a 5-1 blowout.
The other was the winning goal at the 90th minute.
But hey, I gave you a positive comment and you send back some shit. That's the difference between you and I.
I doubt we get Spurs after we just played them in the group stage this season. I suspect we'll get City.
Kovac's doing fine now and as long as he wins the title, he'll get the funds to re-tool the team.
And they need re-tooling.
They are a skilled, but slow squad. Slow at the back, slow in midfield, lacking any real penetration, with two ancient wingers and two young ones (and unfortunately Coman has horrible luck with injuries).
Whether it's Lucas, Pavard, Jovic, Rebic, Pepe, whoever... They desperately need speed and strength in that squad.
They avoided a Real-like collapse, but the time to re-tool this squad is NOW, regardless of the manager.
Liverpool was steady and compact, and their offensive game is (simplified) hoof it up and see the front 3 create havoc.
Defensively though, this team is a rock.
The CB pairing (whoever it is with VVD) is solid, Robertson is a defensive beast, but the overlooked part are the midfield trio + Firminho. The amount of work they put in is immense and the opposing team cannot develop plays and counters unless we're talking some top, top players.
Okay, here and there you'll run into a Modric/Kroos/KDB/etc.... A few top players who can move around and smartly to open up passing lanes and move the ball quickly enough and make plays to avoid the traps and develop plays, but Thiago and James were closed down yesterday every single time.
They are superb players (Thiago James), but always seem to take a touch or two more than guys like Modric, etc. - and Liverpool made sure they could create nothing. Multiple times there was a situation for an outlet pass, but it got shutdown within a second.
It's not just how much they run (Liverpool trio + Firminho), it's when they run.
That said, I know it's maybe unfair, but I thought they were more exciting last season. I'm not a Liverpool fan, I just want them to win over City - so as a (mostly) neutral I enjoyed their games more last season (not to say Liverpool fans aren't biting their nails every game this season as well).
They're doing so well though, I highly doubt Klopp will change to a more offensive style to appease Corto from HFboards.
On the whole, though not brilliant offensively, Liverpool was the better team and deserved to go through.
...
Barca - Lyon.
Only watched parts of it. Yes, better team went through.
Yes, the penalty that directed the game in a certain direction was dodgy at best (putting it mildly, never a penalty in my book).
Yes, VAR needs to man up and tell the refs to look at that crap as right now VAR is used for offsides and handballs, basically.
That Messi guy is pretty good.
Barca are in a superb place this season, Valencia in the CDR final, big cushion in the league and they can rest their guys every time before a CL game.
Treble's looking more possible every day.
Live in the Now
Registered User
They were more exciting last season in part because the defense was so much worse. They knew they had to score a lot, but now that everyone's settled in with a goalkeeper, things have changed. The front three also may be rounding into form at the perfect time once again.
I don't mean that as in "they're not good" or whatever, but unless their front three are playing at the top of their game, their creativity is limited, they NEED to be defensively so good to compete with City.
They started their ridiculous goals-against run after the Spurs game (even before VVD came in, once Klopp dropped the fullbacks lower) but they still scored more and created more last season compared to this one.
A big part of that is that teams learned to fear leaving open spaces at the back to their forwards.
Liverpool would score and then counter you to death last season. This season, that first goal seems to be more elusive.
But like you said, the front three do seem to be hitting their form at the right time.
Mind you, Mane's been great whole season, just that he's still overlooked because of how good Salah was last season.
I'm honestly surprised that everyone here seems to think the Suarez penalty was 100% undeserved. Defenders are not allowed to slide into an attackers path and impede the attacker's progress without getting the ball. I wouldn't have given it, but it is a very defensible call.
I'm also extremely disappointed for OL. I found myself buying into their hype but it just wasn't meant to be. Why didn't Aouar play?
I'm also extremely disappointed for OL. I found myself buying into their hype but it just wasn't meant to be. Why didn't Aouar play?
Vasilevskiy
The cat will be back
Only team I wouldn't want to play until the final is City. It's the only team that has an edge (IMO) over us in a 2-leg series
If Denayer slid in, Saurez stepped on his foot, lost balance of something on a moving foot - I dunno, something like that, you could make a case. Maybe.
Denayer slid in, Suarez stepped on his foot, acted like he was shot actively trying to cheat and get the penalty.
The ref bought it and VAR didn't man up.
Not a penalty for me.
Have a single professional ref (or ex ref) come out and supported that penalty decision? I have probably seen a dozen and not a single one say anything else than 100% not a penalty.
Usually there is always some doubt to almost any decision like that. van Dijk on Lewandowski. Didn't look a penalty to me, but I could see why some might think so. The Lyon goal you could also argue could have been disallowed - or at least I could see why people would disagree on that one. The Suarez situation is as unanimous as you will ever get one of those situations.
Which is why VAR should never get involved evaluating those kind of situations. Offside is fine - like goal line technology that should work. I could also see using VAR to evaluate situation where the ref and/or the assistant refs view is blocked. But even that is a bit of a stretch for me because you need to first decide if the view was impeded enough etc.
Usually there is always some doubt to almost any decision like that. van Dijk on Lewandowski. Didn't look a penalty to me, but I could see why some might think so. The Lyon goal you could also argue could have been disallowed - or at least I could see why people would disagree on that one. The Suarez situation is as unanimous as you will ever get one of those situations.
Which is why VAR should never get involved evaluating those kind of situations. Offside is fine - like goal line technology that should work. I could also see using VAR to evaluate situation where the ref and/or the assistant refs view is blocked. But even that is a bit of a stretch for me because you need to first decide if the view was impeded enough etc.
The two scenarios you outlined are exactly the same, except in one of them Suarez embellishes the contact. Both are still fouls though, at least by the letter of the law. You can't put a foot in and impede progress without getting the ball unless it's a 50/50. If it was a 50/50 then Suarez would have seen yellow, but since he was in possession he gets awarded the pen.
The difference is I don't think Suarez was impeded in any way. Had he wanted to he could've gone on running without any consequence at all.
He just chose to grimace and go down in agonizing pain instead.
Honestly, my ultimate judgement in those kinds of situations is what happens if that occurs in a game between mates on a sunday?
No way would anyone call a foul there, no way would there not be a fight if the "Suarez" guy asked for a penalty there.
(might seem to simple, but seriously, in a fair game between games there are no wrong foul calls, or very rarely)
That's fair, I don't disagree. It feels a bit unjust that Suarez was rewarded for his reaction. My intent was mainly to dispel the notion that it wasn't a foul because Suarez was the one who stepped on the defenders foot. That doesn't matter at all if he's in possession of the ball and the defender impedes him without getting the ball. I won't disagree with anyone's opinion on the level of impediment that actually occurred.
Deficient Mode
Registered User
- Mar 25, 2011
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I wouldn't say that the funds are his to dispose of, and I also wouldn't be so certain that the club will be willing to dispose of them. Their squad has been in slow but obvious decline the past few seasons, and they haven't opted for a massive overhaul yet. They even had a similar mini crisis to start 2017-18, and then spent a total of 10M € last summer, with a 74M € surplus. I don't see the current Bayern regime nearly as willing to go on a spending spree relative to the rest of top European clubs.
As for Kovac, well, Lewandowski and Hummels were quite right to criticize him for playing too defensively. He certainly had it on his mind to avoid a "Real-like collapse" - probably too much.
It's hard to judge Kovac to be honest.
I do think he's a good manager with potential to get better.
I also think he's better at both finding the right players and setting up a press/counter-attack style than a possession-based style.
People were laughing off him wanting Jovic and Rebic in the summer, yet now people are accepting that they are properly good players who would very likely make the squad better.
So, whether he's right for Bayern or not... Maybe, maybe not.
But if he wins the title he'll have done enough to win the boards' confidence for a second season and to be a part of any re-tooling they want to do.
I do agree Bayern is unlikely to make huge buys, but I think since they can't seriously compete in Europe at this point, and seeing as how they're threatened in the BL, if there are any bigger buys - it will be this summer.
Chimaera
same ol' Caps
Bayern is still a big scalp. They’ve been in what 6 of 7 semis or better?
It was away in Munich. They didn’t just skate by on a dodgy penalty.
I hope City get Barca.
It was away in Munich. They didn’t just skate by on a dodgy penalty.
I hope City get Barca.
Tradition comes into it too. To win away in Münich in such a relatively controlled manner, it's a statement game.
If anyone wants to knock out Liverpool, they'll have to earn it.
- Oct 3, 2013
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Klopp mentioned after the game that wins like think help restore Liverpool's legitimacy on an international stage. He is right. He believes it should help with recruitment too, which is hopefully right. Players from other leagues aren't watching Liverpool beat Watford or Burnley. Games like this move the needle though, especially for a team that were lost in the wilderness for a long time. Mo Salah said he dreamed of winning CL as opposed to the PL and you cant blame him for that. It's a big deal.
How many times did English teams like Wenger's Arsenal try and fail to get past Bayern Munich in Round of 16? Without hyperbole, this was Liverpool's best road performance against a top team all season. They had lost ever away game in their CL group including Red Star Belgrade. It's a great win, but obviously there is more work to do.
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