GWT: Champions League Round of 16 Part III

JeffreyLFC

Registered User
Sep 29, 2017
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I would like:
Man United vs Man City
Tottenham vs Juventus
Liverpool vs Ajax
Barcelona vs Porto
 

Chimaera

same ol' Caps
Feb 4, 2004
30,888
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La Plata, Maryland
Don't get me wrong. This Bayern isn't the team of Pep or even 09, or 10-11.

But they're a major club, who are one of the top 4 or 5 big clubs in world football, and going there and getting it done still means something. Liverpool want to return to that stage of being one of those glory clubs, but it's going to take some more work to get there.

It's a glory tie, and Liverpool got through. There was a time a bit ago at this stage to where Liverpool were that type of club, but to get back to that point, they have to beat some of the traditional powers again. It's just like if they went to Barca and knocked them out, or if they go to Juve and do the same. Liverpool need statement wins like that to keep the momentum going.

Bayern are set for a rebuild, and they're not what they were. But to act like it's anything other than a massive result for Liverpool is silly. Bayern have found a way to get by in ties and matches they probably weren't supposed to win, and in seasons where they weren't the best. They're still a difficult opponent in a tough place to play. Liverpool didn't walk in there and sneak away with the victory. They won in convincing fashion.
 
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Chimaera

same ol' Caps
Feb 4, 2004
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Note, it does also help with transfers. We know Klopp wants to raid the Bundesliga if he can. If you beat Bayern in Bayern, some of those players who were thinking about it might take notice (i.e. Timo Werner). Sure, money is what will make a difference, but getting Klopp on the phone (or meeting illegally in a meh beach resort) and who knows.
 

Evilo

Registered User
Mar 17, 2002
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I'm honestly surprised that everyone here seems to think the Suarez penalty was 100% undeserved. Defenders are not allowed to slide into an attackers path and impede the attacker's progress without getting the ball. I wouldn't have given it, but it is a very defensible call.

I'm also extremely disappointed for OL. I found myself buying into their hype but it just wasn't meant to be. Why didn't Aouar play?
He didn't slide in his path, he stopped from tackling and Suarez changed direction in order to step on his foot and act like he was fouled.
Nothing to defend the call really.
 

Evilo

Registered User
Mar 17, 2002
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The two scenarios you outlined are exactly the same, except in one of them Suarez embellishes the contact. Both are still fouls though, at least by the letter of the law. You can't put a foot in and impede progress without getting the ball unless it's a 50/50. If it was a 50/50 then Suarez would have seen yellow, but since he was in possession he gets awarded the pen.
Again, was Denayer between Suarez and the ball at any moment?
Then answer is no.
So he didn't impede his progress.
 

Evilo

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Mar 17, 2002
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So in this CL round, VAR either made the wrong call (or at least VERY arguable) or stopped working in favor of 4 teams : Real, Barca, Juventus and United.

Quite telling.
 
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YNWA14

Onbreekbaar
Dec 29, 2010
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There's no question that certain teams get favourable calls; that's always been the case. If there's even a chance that they can give those calls in the favour of the bigger team, they usually will.
 

East Coast Bias

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Feb 28, 2014
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I would rather set myself on fire than sit through another Messi-Ronaldo debate. We absolutely do not need a Juve-Barca draw. Nope.
 
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Evilo

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Yes, but VAR was supposed to fight against that, but in fact it has worsenned the gap.
The fact VAR "didn't work" when the calls in favor of Barca and Real would have been overturned is quite the black eye to any integrity.
 
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phisherman

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Apr 17, 2015
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How many times did English teams like Wenger's Arsenal try and fail to get past Bayern Munich in Round of 16? Without hyperbole, this was Liverpool's best road performance against a top team all season. They had lost ever away game in their CL group including Red Star Belgrade. It's a great win, but obviously there is more work to do.

Are you serious?

This Bayern team is not like those previous Bayern teams.
 
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YNWA14

Onbreekbaar
Dec 29, 2010
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Yes, but VAR was supposed to fight against that, but in fact it has worsenned the gap.
The fact VAR "didn't work" when the calls in favor of Barca and Real would have been overturned is quite the black eye to any integrity.
I think part of the problem is that everyone uses their own standards and judgment and applies them to the game. VAR isn't supposed to clean up the gray area (handballs, weird challenges, judgment calls) it's more supposed to clean up black and white things like offside, was there a blatant foul in the build up, did it actually hit the hand, etc.

The problem with some of these things is that because the rules are not specific it still comes down to a judgment call and for the most part the guys on VAR or whatever aren't going to overturn the call of the ref. If you can see any argument at all (no matter how small) I'd imagine they'd usually side with the ref's call (which obviously gets more complicated if there was no call on the play and the ref is looking for assistance).

The more clear the rule is the easier the application of VAR becomes.
 

Pouchkine

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May 20, 2015
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There's no question that certain teams get favourable calls; that's always been the case. If there's even a chance that they can give those calls in the favour of the bigger team, they usually will.
It wasn't like this before. There was the odd referee mistake here and there but not a constant trend like this. The thing is right now UEFA is selling tv rights for those games ALL OVER THE WORLD so it's better for them to have always the same big teams in the final rounds, much easier to sell and bring in some new fans of those big clubs.

UEFA these days couldn't live with a Dynamo Kiev in the 1/2, Olympiakos in the 1/4 or even the likes of Ajax Lyon Porto, they want Barcelona Madrid Juventus and a big EPL team, just like if they could in tennis they would always want Federer Nadal Djokovic to sell the game worldwide.

UEFA before was for the clubs of Europe and their fans, now it's for getting the most $ worldwide as possible.

One of the reason I enjoy watching the Europa more for a good time now.
 
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Savant

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Oct 3, 2013
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Are you serious?

This Bayern team is not like those previous Bayern teams.
It's a completely valid comparison, and it's not even an anti-Arsenal comparison necessarily, but the fact is English teams, including some very good Wenger teams could not get past Munich. It was a dead end for English teams in the CL.

Bayern is Bayern and they have been in great form since the winter break. Bayern is still a big 4 team.
 

YNWA14

Onbreekbaar
Dec 29, 2010
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The only thing toxic is when people go around gloating that they're right. You don't see me going around talking about how I was right about Bayern or any of that ****. In fact I haven't posted in that thread at all since I said last season Kovac would hurt Bayern very badly. You should learn that nobody really cares to begin with if you're right or not, but if you're going to gloat about something, your wrongness is just going to look even worse and lead to people pointing out how wrong you often are.
Seems like hypocrisy. I've seen you gloat about being right about things plenty of times, and you've been wrong about plenty too. People do care, they just only care when they're right (then they get agitated like you are now when they aren't). Nobody likes being wrong shoved in their face but at the same time they're more than happy to **** on someone else when they're wrong, even if the initial statement was not with any kind of intent of showing someone up (just look at many of my past posts on Can who I know you loved, Coutinho, van Dijk, Firmino, Salah, the CL last year, Arsenal's decline etc. etc.). Glass houses I guess. I'm sure you'll have some kind of snide reply, as you always do, but yeah keep talking about how 'often I've been wrong' since the beginning of last season (would be interested to see what basis that has). The difference is I actually admit when I'm wrong and don't just disappear or avoid the subject.

When I give my opinion I usually support it, and do it without attacking other peoples' opinions to do so. You, among others, definitely don't, which I assume is why you get so up in arms when someone else 'gloats'. So yeah...not overly surprising you find that the toxic bit and not the way a lot of the posters here treat others that voice opinions that don't fall in line with their own.
 

Evilo

Registered User
Mar 17, 2002
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France
Nah, that's a pretty bad comparison. This Bayern was not a CL contender this year. Still a good result to beat them, but no comparison with the CL-challenging Bayerns.

As for VAR, problem is, at which point do we start to believe VAR really "stops working" when it's OK for big teams?
 

YNWA14

Onbreekbaar
Dec 29, 2010
34,543
2,560
Nah, that's a pretty bad comparison. This Bayern was not a CL contender this year. Still a good result to beat them, but no comparison with the CL-challenging Bayerns.

As for VAR, problem is, at which point do we start to believe VAR really "stops working" when it's OK for big teams?
I agree. This was the most vulnerable Bayern in years whether they were in good form or not. They're still a very good team and will likely finish in 1st in the BuLi again, so it's a good win for Liverpool, but it's not anything exceptional. Still worth celebrating.

Also I don't think it stops working when it's 'OK for big teams' I'm just saying the issue with VAR at the moment is its application, and maybe the expectations people have for it. It won't clean up judgment calls which often seem to go in favour of big teams. If a rule isn't clear it always leaves room for interpretation which means someone will always be unhappy.
 

Pouchkine

Registered User
May 20, 2015
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294
It's a completely valid comparison, and it's not even an anti-Arsenal comparison necessarily, but the fact is English teams, including some very good Wenger teams could not get past Munich. It was a dead end for English teams in the CL.

Bayern is Bayern and they have been in great form since the winter break. Bayern is still a big 4 team.
Not without Robben.
 
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Evilo

Registered User
Mar 17, 2002
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But the VAR had a "technical problem" that allowed Real to get a favourable call, and yesterday apparently, the VAR "suddenly" stopped working on the Suarez penalty call.
 

Wee Baby Seamus

Yo, Goober, where's the meat?
Mar 15, 2011
14,704
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Halifax/Toronto
It's a completely valid comparison, and it's not even an anti-Arsenal comparison necessarily, but the fact is English teams, including some very good Wenger teams could not get past Munich. It was a dead end for English teams in the CL.

Bayern is Bayern and they have been in great form since the winter break. Bayern is still a big 4 team.

article-2146874-132F13D4000005DC-746_634x286.jpg
 

bluesfan94

Registered User
Jan 7, 2008
30,720
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St. Louis
So in this CL round, VAR either made the wrong call (or at least VERY arguable) or stopped working in favor of 4 teams : Real, Barca, Juventus and United.

Quite telling.
VAR only kicks in if there’s a clear error. The only clear error was Barça. Calm down.
 

Evilo

Registered User
Mar 17, 2002
61,958
8,526
France
No, you didn't get what I said.
VAR worked for Real on an arguable call. Didn't work when Ajax needed it. Weird, huh?
Against PSG, VAR worked so much they convinced the ref into calling something he rightfully called live.
Against Juve, VAR didn't have anything to say about the penalty.
Yesterday, VAR stopped working when Suarez faked a foul. Weird again, huh?

If out of this you get one clear error, well done.
 

YNWA14

Onbreekbaar
Dec 29, 2010
34,543
2,560
Most people here think the call against PSG was a fair penalty, and at worst a 50/50, same for the Juventus penalty. The Real call wasn't really arguable, it was pretty clear (not sure what Ajax VAR you're referring to though). The Suarez thing does look like a pretty big mistake, but it happens. Obviously if you're looking for a conspiracy there you can find one, but the Suarez call aside there wasn't really anything scandalous about the other calls.
 

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