GWT: Champions League Quarterfinals

Discussion in 'Soccer' started by Halladay, Apr 4, 2016.

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  1. Deficient Mode Registered User

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    They don't have the same knocks at all. Ronaldo isn't nearly as effective against good teams because he doesn't thrive in tight spaces and isn't a particularly smart player. The same can't be said about Messi.


    Which was a stupid way of determining great players in the past and remains a stupid way of determining great players. Beckenbauer and Zidane for instance were great players, but they're nowhere close to top 5 all time if you take away the misleading narratives surrounding their national team success (and their elegance).
     
  2. Panteras perennial loser

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    The way I see it, Ronaldo has evolved. At the moment he is essentially a killer in the 6 yard box with free movement. While at United he was a much more involved player actually carrying the play. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that Ruud Van Nistelrooy played an essential part in Ronaldo's development to becoming this prolific goal poaching 6 yard box finisher. As we see Ronnie is not doing anything impressive really....he is just at the right place at the right time and finishing chances. That was basically RVN. It also doesn't hurt that CR7 is physically gifted and does have skills.
     
  3. YNWA14 Onbreekbaar

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    People underrate 'being in the right place at the right time' consistently, as well as finishing. What Ronaldo has done over his career is nothing short of exceptional especially in an age when teams are drilled defensively, coaches often have a defensive approach and players are more often athletic.

    It's weird to say because he truly has been the 2nd best player in the world for a long time now but he gets underrated by his detractors.
     
  4. les Habs Registered User

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    :laugh: Like I said, if Suarez's was intentional then that's the best acting job ever. In that case he should have been sent off, but again I don't think it wasn't intentional. Neymar's is borderline and if you send him off there then you send off Godin for the afters, regardless of which Godin should have been sent off anyway. In fact he could have been sent off as early as the 32nd minute, but the ref would have never done that anyway. If you're going to send Iniesta off, which is also debatable unless you want to actually make a case, you also send off Gabi which also didn't happen not to mention the ref didn't even correctly award the penalty there. That's not to mention Koke. So if you want to talk about ref protection then get the record straight, but considering your laughable commentary on this subject along with everything else you choose to comment on I would suggest you put the mouse away for a while.

    How many times did I see Barça play? Is that a serious question? Not sure what that has to do with any of this, but I've seen them live seven times. I've seen them six times at the Camp Nou and once on tour here in the States. On top of that I've been supporting the club for over sixteen years and have seen 99% of their matches for more than than the last ten years. In fact I was paying supporting for three seasons until I "voted with my pocketbook."
     
  5. les Habs Registered User

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    You keep banging on about Ronaldo yet you jumped all over the chance with your "meanwhile" post after someone brought up Messi. Ronaldo isn't underrated on this forum and he's not at all underrated more than Messi is here. You keep talking about big match performances and yet few are even saying he doesn't come up in big matches and in this latest incidence they appropriately cited the competition.

    What Ronaldo has done in this "age" of defensively drilled teams, defensive approaches and athletic players is use his generally superior athleticism (something he should be lauded for really) while playing largely in a counter-attacking side for years. While what he's done is legendary, there's a notable difference between that and say going up against the same age of approaches and players when you're in a largely possession focused side.

    If Ronaldo is underrated by his detractors, it's seldom on this forum. Like I said last year, he actually wins more matches than he was getting for, but that was basically one person saying otherwise and if you look at Ronaldo's career up to last season (which wasn't the sample for that discussion I know) then they had a valid point.
     
  6. YNWA14 Onbreekbaar

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    I said it as a joke (including faces and laughter and all, though I knew it'd still ruffle your feathers). There's no question that Messi is the best player in the world and will probably go down as the best in history regardless of how he tails off at this point. What he has accomplished and the things he does on the pitch are otherwordly. It was just a jab at all the people who love to hate on Ronaldo (which are many, by the way, despite your attempts to downplay that).

    He is certainly underrated on this forum, and in a bunch of places simply because people don't like him. He definitely is more underrated than Messi...lol
     
  7. Balance Jesus loves you!

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    Messi will never surpass Maradona, especially with Messi's world cup resume
     
  8. Deficient Mode Registered User

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    Ah, so any specific criticisms of Cristiano are founded in emotions of the critics rather than what he does on the pitch. Good to know.
     
  9. les Habs Registered User

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    Yeah, it ruffled my feathers so much I didn't even comment on it until I decided to comment on Ronaldo. All it did was make me laugh, something you have a penchant for, especially in this thread of late.

    I never tried to downplay that there are many people who hate "on" Ronaldo. I "hate on" him and thoroughly dislike him. I never tried to downplay that because I never commented on it in the first place. I was commenting on people underrating him or not. If he's underrated on this forum, and he may be by a couple of folks, he's also overrated as well. In fact you do a great job of that yourself. Messi then too is underrated, although he is regardless, despite your bias allowing you to see that. But hey, it's essentially a free forum, so have it Curtnaldo.
     
  10. Evilo Registered User

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    In terms of stupidity and overratedness, indeed, Messi will never surpass Maradona, who managed to build his own legend through media because of 15 days of great football.
     
  11. les Habs Registered User

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    No, it's just an inferiority complex.
     
  12. Evilo Registered User

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    Ronaldo is a great player, and that's a testimony to his extremely hard work off the pitch. He's easily the second best player in the world and has been for most of his career.
    Unfortunately for him, Messi is a superior player.

    Where Ronaldo deserves all the blame is for his behavior on the pitch which has always been a bad example to kids (playing for himself rather than the team, never defending, blaming his teammates for his own missed passes, trying to embarrass defensemen and generally showing off instead of targeting efficiency and a more modest approach, etc, etc...).
     
  13. Evilo Registered User

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    Ronaldo is a great player, and that's a testimony to his extremely hard work off the pitch. He's easily the second best player in the world and has been for most of his career.
    Unfortunately for him, Messi is a superior player.

    Where Ronaldo deserves all the blame is for his behavior on the pitch which has always been a bad example to kids (playing for himself rather than the team, never defending, blaming his teammates for his own missed passes, trying to embarrass defensemen and generally showing off instead of targeting efficiency and a more modest approach, etc, etc...).
     
  14. Pouchkine Registered User

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    Iniesta red card isn't debatable : he cancelled an obvious goalscoring opportunity with a deliberate handball 100% red.

    Agree about the points about Maradona Zidane and Beckenbauer. That being said what you did or do for your national team is still very important. Especially if you play for a great national team and over 10-15 years...If the only time you perform well is on an all star team in club football and then can't do it on your own it's a big knock.

    In the 60's 70's 80's 90's sure there were some very solid teams but there were lots of them and the great players you had them on many teams not all of them on 2-3 teams...
     
  15. Pouchkine Registered User

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    I'll say it again for those who know hockey a little here :

    Messi for Barcelona= Mario Lemieux
    Messi for Argentina= Russ Courtnall
     
  16. YNWA14 Onbreekbaar

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    I can agree with this for the most part.

    I think Ronaldo could have been even more than he already has been, and accomplished more than he already has, if he wasn't such a "look at me" or "me first" player. The talent and athleticism have always been there.
     
  17. Power Man Grrrr

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    Hahahahahahahaha



    What
     
  18. WhiskeySeven* Expect the expected

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    Maradona is weirdly overrated and properly rated at the same time. Not many of us here were around to know for sure though - on Napoli it was a one-man show, for instance. How do you judge a player's greatness though?

    Anyway, I came into this thread to read a certain Barcelona fan's post-mortem and it definitely didn't disappoint. :laugh:

    "(Suarez's "elbow" wasn't deliberate for me as if it was it was the greatest bit of acting I've ever seen anywhere)"

    :handclap:

    As a long-time Bayern fan, I just want to say that I'm sick of seeing Alonso dress for important matches and I would dread to see him on the pitch against Atletico.
     
  19. les Habs Registered User

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    :laugh: Almost as funny as Napoli being a one-man show.

    Say what you want, and I wouldn't put it past Suarez (who I called out for the first leg btw), but both arms up in relatively the same motion and this while he's going up for a header.
     
  20. Live in the Now Registered User

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    The Suarez thing definitely wasn't deliberate. The Neymar incident looked much more so, but I didn't see a replay so I don't know. The incompetence of the officiating was shocking overall. For two of the more deliberate handballs I've seen it's surprising neither player was sent off.
     
  21. les Habs Registered User

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    Neymar's incident was deliberate, but in that same incident there were afters from Godin. The difference is that Neymar would have already been sent off presumably.
     
  22. Live in the Now Registered User

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    Godin also put his hands on Neymar's head earlier in the game which should be an automatic yellow card, then he took one from the kamikaze foul earlier, so he should have been off as well. The referee just decided he wasn't sending anyone off for anything.
     
  23. les Habs Registered User

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    Yeah, and he "shoulder barged" Neymar at least 3 yards out of touch after the ball had gone out (which depending on the head incident you're mentioning was in that sequence). He also embellished a few times as well, but that's another discussion.

    Agreed on the ref, which was unfortunate for both sides. This is why the fouls early on in a match like this or in a tie make every bit the difference as though late in a match or in the second leg. People focus on a call or two when you need to look at the match or tie as a whole.

    Anyway, I'm not complaining about the refs in that I feel like we wuz robbed when I consider the tie as a hole. The team simply wasn't good enough which is disappointing considering how just a month or so back they were flying. Can't win 'em all though I guess.
     
  24. TheLeastOfTheBunch Franchise Centre

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    I don't bother with the few calling Barca a team full of cheats.. Where's the same reaction with the way Atletico acted in the 1st leg? Easily could've had Augusto Fernandez and Lucas out for the 2nd leg with the fouls they committed in the 1st game, if we're playing this hypothetical of Suarez, Neymar, Iniesta should've been sent off in the last game.

    https://streamable.com/94gr
    https://streamable.com/mdjf

    Another day of referees protecting Barcelona, amirite? 2 missed Reds there and a missed foul on Neymar inside the box.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2016
  25. Ceremony ______________

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    It will come as no surprise to any of you that I don't watch a lot of football. Not having any of the assorted pay TV methods the only stuff I watch on TV is whatever the BBC deigns to show me, which nowadays is exclusively FA Cup and Scottish Cup/League Cup games, plus the assorted highlights programmes for Scottish & English league games. To give you some sort of perspective, Gary Lineker's salary for Match of the Day exceeds what the BBC spends on the rights for Scottish football. The thing is though, I don't especially watch any of this out of any real sense of enjoyment out of football itself. I certainly enjoy watching football, but I mainly watch it because I have some vague sense of caring about the teams involved. For instance, the next game of football I watch will be a cup semi-final between one team whose players literally quit in the middle of games and another whose name substitutes as a verb for spectacular failure, most recently seen failing to win a game in which they were two goals and a man up with three minutes to go. At home. At least, I don't seek out football from other leagues/countries because there's no specific reason for me to. This is why I can remember very little about pretty much any football game I watch. I watched probably every match from the last four World Cups/European Championships, I could remember about ten incidents from all of them. Even Barcelona, the only notable thing I can recall from their recent years of dominance was the second leg of the Bayer Leverkusen tie in the Champions League where Messi scored five or something and looked like he was playing against children.

    This relative dearth of actual legitimate experience watching football - and being quite culturally pigeon-holed in what I do watch - has led to me holding an extremely idealised view of what football is and how it should be played. How a team should rock up looking like they did in the 1970s, plain shirts, black boots, all identical. Seas of humanity behind the goals (have you ever seen what the Holte End at Villa Park used to look like?, no hideous pervasion of modern capitalism... anywhere, eleven local lads in every team who play football in a style so fluid and pure it melts the brain to actually watch it. A manager in a suit (always a suit) at the side who stands stoic, immobile for 90 minutes. Except from all the times he's unleashing countless profanities at his team. A team who all play fairly and in whatever genuine spirit of the game you want to concoct, honest sportsmen who would run through walls for everything they represent, their club, their fans, their shirt, their community, the game itself. In terms of the individual there's a few I've seen who manage to uphold the sort of attitude I want to see in a footballer - Zidane. Pirlo. Iniesta. The sort of players who seem to float about a pitch entirely of their own accord. They move at a pace, with an intention completely unrelated to everyone else around them yet completely commanding it. If you can look suave as **** with a beard and hair and a glass of wine while pinging 50 yard diagonals like Pirlo, all the better for it.

    While this is all of course impossible, and while about ten minutes of highlights last night are nothing to base any sort of worthwhile upon, there's something compelling about this Atletico team that Simeone's crafted. I should hate all of it. An assortment of undoubtedly skilled players who turn into cloggers whenever necessary. Who harangue referees at every opportunity. Who react to any perceived infringement from the opposition with hysteria bordering on the absurd, typified best in Godin's reaction to Suarez's arm in his face. A pretty nasty looking eye, yes, but he's a big boy. No need for the lying prostrate on the ground kicking your legs. A manager who looks like a cross between a pitbull and a low-level mafia associate who partakes in all of the above all while waving his arms around at the crowd, who're in an awful stadium with two corners missing a mile away from the pitch, and who play Seven Nation ****ing Army after goals. Yet you watch the fans, you watch this team that doesn't stop, knows exactly what it's doing and does it with an application and a determination which I've never seen in any predominately attack-minded team... it's remarkable. I'm very hesitant to call it intoxicating, but what a thrill it must be to witness. A shame it's all bad and wrong and should be criticised at every opportunity.
     
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