Champions League last 16

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

I lold at the no ter stegan, courtios, Ramos or pique bit. Laughable stuff.

In any case I'd take him for the NT in a heartbeat so yeah I still rate him.

 

[Havre]

No Oblak, no Saul, no Koke etc.

I think D2K is far over the top as usual, but I agree that Simeone got a fantastic starting line-up. Maybe not the depth for the league, but their best 11 isn’t far behind any other team at the moment in my opinion. If behind at all.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

No Oblak, no Saul, no Koke etc.

I think D2K is far over the top as usual, but I agree that Simeone got a fantastic starting line-up. Maybe not the depth for the league, but their best 11 isn’t far behind any other team at the moment in my opinion. If behind at all.

Over the top? As usual please go on...

 

[Juve]

I don't understand why MDS was chosen to start over Cancelo.

 

[Havre]

Over the top? As usual please go on...

Surely it can’t come as a surprise I don’t find your posts - let’s say balanced?

 

[Evilo]

So now Saul is at the level of Busquets and Modric?
Oblak is as good as Courtois (best goalie at the WC) and ter Stegen, that he calls best keeper in the world 10 times a day?
Reason why Godin, Gimenez and co are considered among the bes tis BECAUSE Simeone plays defensively. Pique and Ramos are OBVIOUSLY rated higher everywhere throughout their career.

And Griez/Costa compared to MSN and BBC.

Right.
Yes, Simeone had EVERY year the third best roster in his league.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

Surely it can’t come as a surprise I don’t find your posts - let’s say balanced?

How is it over the top, saying Simeone is a good manager but not as good as claimed on here. And that he's limited in his approach given his defensive nature.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

So now Saul is at the level of Busquets and Modric?
Oblak is as good as Courtois (best goalie at the WC) and ter Stegen, that he calls best keeper in the world 10 times a day?
Reason why Godin, Gimenez and co are considered among the bes tis BECAUSE Simeone plays defensively. Pique and Ramos are OBVIOUSLY rated higher everywhere throughout their career.

And Griez/Costa compared to MSN and BBC.

Right.
Yes, Simeone had EVERY year the third best roster in his league.

I've raved about Oblak who I consider an elite keeper and better than both courtois and DDG. Especially when you consider TC has been with real for about 2 weeks. And a 2 week tournament doesn't mean much in evaluating players. Of course you know all this but grasping at straws. Also Godin is better than both Ramos and Pique this is common knowledge.

 

[Havre]

How is it over the top, saying Simeone is a good manager but not as good as claimed on here. And that he's limited in his approach given his defensive nature.

You mean “very limited” playing like Stoke?

It is not specifically related to this discussion. Just gets a bit tiring when that is the rhetoric used so often. Anyway. I’m not the authority here. In this case we agree when it comes to the substance.

 

[Live in the Now]

No Oblak, no Saul, no Koke etc.

I think D2K is far over the top as usual, but I agree that Simeone got a fantastic starting line-up. Maybe not the depth for the league, but their best 11 isn’t far behind any other team at the moment in my opinion. If behind at all.

He made it that lineup though. It is very hard to win titles merely by improving the players you started out with. IMO anyway.

The Atleti board doesn't really have money to get players other than Morata and maybe the rare Lemar, so it's a struggle.

 

[Havre]

He made it that lineup though. It is very hard to win titles merely by improving the players you started out with. IMO anyway.

The Atleti board doesn't really have money to get players other than Morata and maybe the rare Lemar, so it's a struggle.

I don’t know how much is down to Simeone when it comes to building the squad. And I’m not saying Simeone shouldn’t get credit for the development of quite a few of today’s stars, but I do agree that there might be a higher potential in today’s squad then what is seen on the pitch. I can see the argument that Simeone might still be stuck in a “underdog mentality”. Something that does make sense by the way.

 

[Evilo]

I love Oblak, but he's not better than Courtois IMO and nor MATS. The 2 week tournament is just an example. Courtois is rarely seen outside the top 5 throughout his career (with Atletico as well mind you).

Godin is better than Ramos and Pique? To people who have zero understanding of defense maybe. To people who know that CB look better when they're sheltered by 7 players in front of them, NO.

So to sum up your point about their lineups being equal (or better !) :
Goalies? Well Oblak's good, around Courtois' level. Let's forget MATS. Doesn't fit the point.
Dmen? Let's not look at the system and let's say Godin is the second coming of God. OK.
Midfield? Well let's ignore and pretend Saul/Koke are better than Modric and Busquets (or Rakitic, Iniesta, Xavi etc...).
Offense? Well let's ignore as well because... well, there ain't much to say.

So all you could come up with is that Oblak is around Courtois' level (ignoring MATS) and that Godin is somewhat individually better than Ramos and Pique (while in fact he's even worse than Varane and Umtiti).


Who's grasping at straws?

 

[Deficient Mode]

@Duchene2MacKinnon Could I get your breakdown of the implications of the 14th best Bundesliga team leading a top 2 EPL team?

 

[Evilo]

I don’t know how much is down to Simeone when it comes to building the squad. And I’m not saying Simeone shouldn’t get credit for the development of quite a few of today’s stars, but I do agree that there might be a higher potential in today’s squad then what is seen on the pitch. I can see the argument that Simeone might still be stuck in a “underdog mentality”. Something that does make sense by the way.

Which is fine.
But the results aren't disputable. Two CL finals and 1 Liga titles with the third best Lig roster is impressive.
Now, being few of great football, I'm glad I'm not treated to Simeone ball every week.
But there's no disputing his place among the very very best coaches in the game.

 

[Live in the Now]

f***ing lol City.

 

[Evilo]

@Duchene2MacKinnon Could I get your breakdown of the implications of the 14th best Bundesliga team leading a top 2 EPL team?

And add the 3rd ranked L1 team drawing the comfortable Liga leaders.

 

[Juve]

Well.....the midfield is non existent in the first half.

 

[Havre]

Which is fine.
But the results aren't disputable. Two CL finals and 1 Liga titles with the third best Lig roster is impressive.
Now, being few of great football, I'm glad I'm not treated to Simeone ball every week.
But there's no disputing his place among the very very best coaches in the game.

He created a formidable unit. For me to be ranked among the best he needs to either repeat that (they way Ferguson did with new teams) and/or do it again somewhere else.

As for how much is he getting out of the current squad? Not more than he should I would argue (AM will now win the CL of course).

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

I love Oblak, but he's not better than Courtois IMO and nor MATS. The 2 week tournament is just an example. Courtois is rarely seen outside the top 5 throughout his career (with Atletico as well mind you).

Godin is better than Ramos and Pique? To people who have zero understanding of defense maybe. To people who know that CB look better when they're sheltered by 7 players in front of them, NO.

So to sum up your point about their lineups being equal (or better !) :
Goalies? Well Oblak's good, around Courtois' level. Let's forget MATS. Doesn't fit the point.
Dmen? Let's not look at the system and let's say Godin is the second coming of God. OK.
Midfield? Well let's ignore and pretend Saul/Koke are better than Modric and Busquets (or Rakitic, Iniesta, Xavi etc...).
Offense? Well let's ignore as well because... well, there ain't much to say.

So all you could come up with is that Oblak is around Courtois' level (ignoring MATS) and that Godin is somewhat individually better than Ramos and Pique (while in fact he's even worse than Varane and Umtiti).


Who's grasping at straws?

Defensively Godin is better than both Ramos (who you called a fraud) and Pique. Courtois is a very good keeper loved him at Atleti but right now Oblak is head and shoulders above him No disputing that. Oblak is one of the best keepers in the world. You can argue him being the best in the world, although it's MAtS who holds that title. No one claimed Godin was God but that's usual from you. The midfield as a whole and I wasn't talking about prime Xavi/Iniesta days obviously.

Which is fine.
But the results aren't disputable. Two CL finals and 1 Liga titles with the third best Lig roster is impressive.
Now, being few of great football, I'm glad I'm not treated to Simeone ball every week.
But there's no disputing his place among the very very best coaches in the game.

I never once claimed he was a bad coach or not one of the very very best. He's in the top 5. I watch Atleti weekly. sooo.

And add the 3rd ranked L1 team drawing the comfortable Liga leaders.

Guess it's ride D2M day what's the point of this post again?

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

@Duchene2MacKinnon Could I get your breakdown of the implications of the 14th best Bundesliga team leading a top 2 EPL team?

Didn't watch but 2 penalties against them? Regardless, did I ever claim football was a predictable sport were upsets never happen. 45 mins doesn't change the fact that the Bundesliga is suffering from a bad year.

 

[koyvoo]

Here’s hoping that Schalke gets another two pens in the 2nd half.

 

[Evilo]

He created a formidable unit. For me to be ranked among the best he needs to either repeat that (they way Ferguson did with new teams) and/or do it again somewhere else.

As for how much is he getting out of the current squad? Not more than he should I would argue (AM will now win the CL of course).

Just to make sure I explained myself clearly : among the best in the game TODAY. Not all time.

 

[Live in the Now]

Should be pointed out that VAR gave Schalke the first penalty.

 

[Evilo]

Should be pointed out that VAR gave Schalke the first penalty.

And we can say that without VAR, a big team would have benefited from a ref mistake.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

You mean “very limited” playing like Stoke?

It is not specifically related to this discussion. Just gets a bit tiring when that is the rhetoric used so often. Anyway. I’m not the authority here. In this case we agree when it comes to the substance.

That's what he does against the likes of Getafe at times. No that anyone on here is watching except from a select few la liga fans.