Champions League Game Day 1

[MrFunnyWobbl]

Find a post? Well, I gave you your own quote.

You take Pulisic over Dembele?
Good you stand by it.

Then quote the ****ing actual post if you have proof someone said that.

 

[Havre]

I know that. I'm making the point that the call went in Spurs favor. That could've easily not, it wasn't an obvious offside.

So in terms of offsides there is one clear for both teams. And one that I believe the ref made the right call on. If I remember the post that started this was saying Dortmund got two goals wrongly disallowed (got to admit I´m too lazy to check the exact wording). Not sure if it is then so unreasonable to point out that one of those two isn´t clearly wrong (at least) and that Spurs also got a call against them (or rather a non-call).

I´m sure if I were a Dortmund fan I would have been annoyed with that one offside call and Sahin (I believe) not getting a free kick right before 2-1. Two borderline calls going against Dortmund. Not sure if any of them were wrong though (even if those situations like the one between Kane and Sahin always get called even when they shouldn´t - that is a closer call than that offside in my opinion).

 

[Evilo]

Then quote the ****ing actual post if you have proof someone said that.

I actually quoted it.

 

[Mr Plow]

Liverpool were unlucky to draw today after that showing in the first half. I thought Klopp was too hesitant with his subs and it was clear early in the second half we were begging for fresh legs.

Lovren has always had his brain farts but this season has already been something else for him. I think a summer of speculation that he was slated to be replaced has done a number on his confidence.

How many born 98 or later are as good as Pulisic? Mbappe and?

Development isn´t linear, but Pulisic is quite special. And I´m not American.

In any position? I would say Donnarumma as well. Pulisic is incredible though, coming from another non-American.

 

[Evilo]

Sigh.... How lazy can you be...
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=123208703&postcount=665

 

[Havre]

From a (fairly) neutral point of view:

- Dortmund's goal had an offside early, but Spurs had multiple chances to recover so I think it's hard to be too upset about that
- On Kane's first goal he fouled the player on the buildup (after he was fouled himself)
- Called off goal at the end of the half is close. It's easy to see how the official thought Auba was going for the ball and thus being active. Tough call, but I don't think you can be crazy upset at it, it's probably given as offside at least half the time in those cases.
- Called of Auba goal was just a brutal decision by the sideline judge.
- Don't think Vertonghen should have got straight red, but he should have got a second yellow for it, so no impact on this game. Wouldn't be surprised if it's reduced from 3 to 1 on appeal.
- Dortmund were the better team for almost the entire game, but were terrible defending the counter and the keeper was poor.
- Spurs defense wasn't great, especially for all the help they had in for their central defenders.

Overall I'd say both these teams need to improve significantly if they're gonna do anything except get stomped by Real Madrid.

He got 2 yellows.

Completely disagree with the Spurs defense. All did well. Absolutely no support defensively from Dembele and Dier. Especially in the first half. Vertonghen was a rock. Aurier very solid. Davies also great defensively. Sanchez struggled a couple of times, but he was hardly shaken. Alderweireld got Pulisic under control when he tired a bit.

 

[Bon Esprit]

Sigh.... How lazy can you be...
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=123208703&postcount=665

 

[hatterson]

He got 2 yellows.

Completely disagree with the Spurs defence. All did well. Absolutely no support defensively from Dembele and Dier. Especially in the first half. Vertonghen was a rock. Aurier very solid. Davies also great defensively. Sanchez struggled a couple of times, but he was hardly shaken. Alderweireld got Pulisic under control when he tired a bit.

Ahh, I didn't see the yellow, only the red. And the box score I looked at showed it as a straight red.

And regarding defense, it wasn't that there were massive mistakes, it's that they weren't at all solid, lots of little things going wrong. Dortmund scored 2 completely legit goals (1 wrongly called back) and scored another debatable one. They also had multiple excellent chances they probably should have scored on. They easily could have scored 4 or 5 today if things had gone different.

 

[Evilo]

And also on this, Evilo, you are distorting what was said.

Dembele is a year and a half older than Pulisic. Pulisic right now is as good as Dembele was a year ago. You can't compare young players and not factor in their age, otherwise you are making a meaningless comparison.

That fun.
When Dembele was 19, he beat all time youth scoring records.

I wonder who's distorting stuff by saying things about Harit...

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Who said Harit was as good? Please link.

OTOH, I can link to some posts of yours...

Hey man, read this :

Jeffrey wrote this too :

Mr Funny wrote a funny line too :

#456 http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showt...highlight=harit+pulisic+dembele#post125626333

You didn't say exactly that, but it was insinuated, I'm not dumb, you are not dumb, we all know what your opinion is of Pulisic. You simply refuse to give him the respect he deserves, you think he's a lesser talent, not up there with the best young players in Europe. You still want to claim Brandt>Pulisic long term? Don't think there's a very good case for that anymore, and as I've said many times, Dembele vs. Pulisic has more facets to the debate than you want to admit. Dembele is older, so we gotta account for their play at certain ages, and they also are different players, so thats that. To laugh off Pulisic as just some overrated player by US fans shows your bias against the player.

No one here dislikes Dembele. He was a big help to Dortmund, great talent, I defended him plenty, I'm a big fan of him. I said what you wouldn't because you don't want to hurt your leverage in this discussion. You have a preference to your countryman, as do I. Thats just the truth, even if you don't admit it. And there's nothing wrong with that, most people do have that. The difference here is that you have essentially rubbished Pulisic because of a so called competition with those two from last season. You are out to prove superiority here. I'll defend my countryman in a debate, but I'm not out to rubbish the other guy as some overrated player by French people.

 

[Havre]

Ahh, I didn't see the yellow, only the red. And the box score I looked at showed it as a straight red.

And regarding defense, it wasn't that there were massive mistakes, it's that they weren't at all solid, lots of little things going wrong. Dortmund scored 2 completely legit goals (1 wrongly called back) and scored another debatable one. They also had multiple excellent chances they probably should have scored on. They easily could have scored 4 or 5 today if things had gone different.

But I don´t blame the back 5 for any of it.

Yarmolenko you can´t stop with your back 5. Dembele too weak. I guess you can argue Davies´ header isn´t perfect - which is partly correct.

The rest is related to set-pieces. I guess you could argue the three central defenders should dominate the aerial space more. Maybe, but that is also a bit random where the ball ends up.

The general domination was much more down to Dier and Dembele never getting in the game. How many times did they really close down Sahin? He was tackled once or something? Mourinho would have told them to make 5 free kicks just change the rhythm of the game. Unfortunately only Vertonghen got that kind of mentally among the Spurs players. The rest just aren´t clever enough reading the flow of the game (maybe you could include Lloris, but little he can do from his position).

 

[MrFunnyWobbl]

Sigh.... How lazy can you be...
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=123208703&postcount=665

Thank you.

 

[MrFunnyWobbl]

#456 http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showt...highlight=harit+pulisic+dembele#post125626333

You didn't say exactly that, but it was insinuated, I'm not dumb, you are not dumb, we all know what your opinion is of Pulisic. You simply refuse to give him the respect he deserves, you think he's a lesser talent, not up there with the best young players in Europe. You still want to claim Brandt>Pulisic long term? Don't think there's a very good case for that anymore, and as I've said many times, Dembele vs. Pulisic has more facets to the debate than you want to admit. Dembele is older, so we gotta account for their play at certain ages, and they also are different players, so thats that. To laugh off Pulisic as just some overrated player by US fans shows your bias against the player.

No one here dislikes Dembele. He was a big help to Dortmund, great talent, I defended him plenty, I'm a big fan of him. I said what you wouldn't because you don't want to hurt your leverage in this discussion. You have a preference to your countryman, as do I. Thats just the truth, even if you don't admit it. And there's nothing wrong with that, most people do have that. The difference here is that you have essentially rubbished Pulisic because of a so called competition with those two from last season. You are out to prove superiority here. I'll defend my countryman in a debate, but I'm not out to rubbish the other guy as some overrated player by French people.

I dislike Dembele. And for no other reason than his conduct during the transfer saga.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

So in terms of offsides there is one clear for both teams. And one that I believe the ref made the right call on. If I remember the post that started this was saying Dortmund got two goals wrongly disallowed (got to admit I´m too lazy to check the exact wording). Not sure if it is then so unreasonable to point out that one of those two isn´t clearly wrong (at least) and that Spurs also got a call against them (or rather a non-call).

I´m sure if I were a Dortmund fan I would have been annoyed with that one offside call and Sahin (I believe) not getting a free kick right before 2-1. Two borderline calls going against Dortmund. Not sure if any of them were wrong though (even if those situations like the one between Kane and Sahin always get called even when they shouldn´t - that is a closer call than that offside in my opinion).

I think you have it close to correct. I think there were three contentious calls that could've went either way, the Kane goal where Sahin might've been fouled, the Yarmolenko goal where there might've been an offside in the buildup and the one Pulisic put into the net that Aubameyang was called for offsides. Two of those went Spurs way, the other Dortmund's way. There was also the clear goal by Aubameyang that was called offsides.

Surely the calls favored Tottenham, one could argue that the above logic would have the difference between the actual score and the adjusted score as a draw if the contentious calls were even and the obvious calls were correct, so it favored Spurs. Whether Dortmund had two goals wrongly disallowed is up to interpretation of the calls, surely one was, maybe another.

 

[Evilo]

#456 http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showt...highlight=harit+pulisic+dembele#post125626333

You didn't say exactly that, but it was insinuated,

So, you're distorting things, right? Right? Or simple lies?
"I like Amine Harit, I think great things about him and yet I see him as a lesser player down the roard compared to Dembélé and Brandt."
I'm talking here about personnal preference vs obvious projections.
I like Harit, but would never rank him above Brandt. That was my point. Anyone could see it.
So you lied.

I'm not dumb, you are not dumb, we all know what your opinion is of Pulisic. You simply refuse to give him the respect he deserves,

Really?
Please link.
I call lies.
Just because he's a good notch under Dembele both in terms of actual talent and projection doesn't mean I don't give him the respect he deserves.
I love Hazard, but to say he's not even close to Messi is not disrespecting him. It's saying the obvious.
So lies again.

you think he's a lesser talent, not up there with the best young players in Europe.

Really? Please link.

Oh wait, lies.

You still want to claim Brandt>Pulisic long term? Don't think there's a very good case for that anymore, and as I've said many times,

I do. Brandt has higher upside. Quite clearly.

Dembele vs. Pulisic has more facets to the debate than you want to admit. Dembele is older, so we gotta account for their play at certain ages, and they also are different players, so thats that.

There really isn't much to debate. Dembele is much better and has more potential. Period. Again, at 19, Dembele set league records.

To laugh off Pulisic as just some overrated player by US fans shows your bias against the player.

He is when you say he's "at the level" of Dembele. Definately overrated in that case. Just like in this thread with the Reus comparison.

No one here dislikes Dembele. He was a big help to Dortmund, great talent, I defended him plenty, I'm a big fan of him. I said what you wouldn't because you don't want to hurt your leverage in this discussion.
You have a preference to your countryman, as do I.

I don't have a preference for a countryman. I have eyes and they help me to see Dembele's much better. Not that hard.
Saying the contrary OTOH, is being quite biased.

And there's nothing wrong with that, most people do have that. The difference here is that you have essentially rubbished Pulisic because of a so called competition with those two from last season.

I have rubbished Pulisic?
Please link.
Oh wait, lies.

You are out to prove superiority here. I'll defend my countryman in a debate, but I'm not out to rubbish the other guy as some overrated player by French people.

Why defend Pulisic in a Dembele/Pulisic debate? At some point, you need to look past the countryman tag.


So for a guy saying others are distorting things, you do quite a job of lying.
Or maybe you really do believe what you wrote. Maybe you saw posts from me saying Pulisic is not among Europe's best young players. Maybe you saw posts where I "rubbished" him.
In that case, I suggest a mental hospital quickly because I never wrote those posts.

 

[Evilo]

Thank you.

You're welcome

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

Wtf happened to Porto and Napoli by the way?

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

words

This is great, you are so rigid in your responses. When its that obvious, its not even a good defense, everyone knows what you are trying to do. Asking for exact quotes is just a conversation ender. I didn't say those were exact quotes, but through your posts, I pick up on things. People pick up on the opinions of others, thats how it works. You don't need to outright state something to make someone have an opinion about your opinion on a certain topic. So when you talk about liking Harit in a discussion about Pulisic, but not thinking he's in the same class as Dembele or Brandt, you are making someone think that you think similar things of Pulisic. If thats not what you mean when you say that, then you should specify because it seems abundantly clear you are putting Pulisic in a tier of good players, but not the top class players. And by using Harit as an example, it makes me think you think he's of a similar level to Pulisic, since you are putting them in the same tier with that comparison. You distorted my opinion from the discussion last year about Dembele and Pulisic. You brought that up again today, as if you were giving an accurate accounting of what was said. If you had thought that I was outright claiming Pulisic is a better player, you are wrong, and that record can be set straight. I have continually said that its too hard to judge who will be the better footballer, there are a number of factors at play in making that assessment, and I don't think its obvious yet who will be the better player. Somehow, you have asserted that Dembele is better with nothing to really back up what you said, which is why I bring up your bias.

You sound like a Leaf fan saying that Matthews is clearly so much better than Laine because you said so, not because of real reasons put forth. I would say that Dembele has more of a creative side to his game than Pulisic, but he's also way more mistake prone than Pulisic. Hypothetically, he does have more upside, but probably a lesser floor. In the end of all of this, no one's opinion of their skill-set will matter, the better player will be the "winner" of this discussion, and that'll be that. Both are very good, the ability to maximize their talent or not maximize it will determine who's better. But lets remember how this conversation today started. You were the one who got angry that people were talking about Pulisic's play. He pretty inarguably had a good match, and has had a really good start to the season. Is he as good as Reus at this point? Probably not, but that wasn't what you wanted to talk about, you barged in with some off topic rant against Pulisic. Where is my rant against Dembele? Its not there because there's no reason for me to have one. He's a very good player and I like his game. I prefer the player from my country, so I'm going to back him up when you come in here to make a case against him, but I don't have so much bias in this discussion that I can't recognize the proper level of another player, which is what you are struggling with here. You are so biased in thinking Dembele is so much better that you are lowering Pulisic's place in the sport to a level that I don't think anyone would agree with. If thats not your perspective, speak up, but thats certainly how it seems. Maybe I can ask a follow up question just to see if my read on your opinion is correct. Where would you rank Pulisic in terms of all these young players? Is he on par with Amine Harit or is he near the top?

 

[Ceremony]

That Cavani header almost single-handedly justified everything Evilo has ever said about him

 

[Deficient Mode]

The main thing I take away from all of this is Dortmund is still a TOP 5 team

I missed the lame banter from EPL fans. It has been so long.

 

[Baxterman]

I missed the lame banter from EPL fans. It has been so long.

You read all the "contributions" in this thread and came to the conclusions that the lame banter was from the EPL fans?

I am sure I am unfairly lumping someone in that doesn't belong but did a Dortmund fan have a worthwhile contribution to this thread at all?

 

[Deficient Mode]

You read all the "contributions" in this thread and came to the conclusions that the lame banter was from the EPL fans?

I am sure I am unfairly lumping someone in that doesn't belong but did a Dortmund fan have a worthwhile contribution to this thread at all?

No need to be upset

 

[spintheblackcircle]

Interesting, all three ESPN analysts still say Dortmund advance over Spurs, I guess most experts expect at least one "Spursy" result in the round-robin.

 

[Baxterman]

No need to be upset

I'm not upset at all.

 

[HajdukSplit]

Interesting, all three ESPN analysts still say Dortmund advance over Spurs, I guess most experts expect at least one "Spursy" result in the round-robin.

Still too early to say, but it wouldn't totally surprise me if Dortmund take something next MD at home against Real Madrid. Doubt any will drop points to APOEL so likely the runner-up will be decided in the return match at Dortmund. Also when Dortmund play in Madrid, it will probably be when Madrid has the group wrapped up (no guarantee in getting a result of course)