Champions Hockey League 2022/2023

ItWasJustified

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Jan 1, 2015
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Interesting statement to be made in this very day. Hard to back that one up with facts though.
Tappara beat a Luleå team that is just above relegation in the SHL. The Davidsson brothers had a combined 5 points playing for another SHL bottom team earlier this season and were bad enough to be shipped to Tappara where they both are above 0.5 points per game.
 

Ciccarelli

Uncle Gelart
Dec 17, 2005
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Tappara beat a Luleå team that is just above relegation in the SHL. The Davidsson brothers had a combined 5 points playing for another SHL bottom team earlier this season and were bad enough to be shipped to Tappara where they both are above 0.5 points per game.
They beat multiple SHL teams this season. And Luleå deserves to be in the CHL final as they were the best SHL team in the competition. Simple as that.

And about the Davidsson brothers. Dude check out guys like Mieho, Lyytinen, Palola. It goes both ways, sometimes a player just needs a change of scenery
 

ItWasJustified

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Jan 1, 2015
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And Luleå deserves to be in the CHL final as they were the best SHL team in the competition. Simple as that.
No, they weren't lol. Take a look at the SHL table. Just because you luck your way through a shootout doesn't mean you're the best team.
And about the Davidsson brothers. Dude check out guys like Mieho, Lyytinen, Palola. It goes both ways, sometimes a player just needs a change of scenery
The Davidsson brothers aren't good enough for the SHL. And Mieho? Has 0.36 PPG in SHL and 0.35 PPG in Liiga. Lyytinen? 0.41 PPg in SHL and 0.36 PPG in Liiga.
 

Ciccarelli

Uncle Gelart
Dec 17, 2005
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No, they weren't lol. Take a look at the SHL table. Just because you luck your way through a shootout doesn't mean you're the best team.

The Davidsson brothers aren't good enough for the SHL. And Mieho? Has 0.36 PPG in SHL and 0.35 PPG in Liiga. Lyytinen? 0.41 PPg in SHL and 0.36 PPG in Liiga.
So you decided to only count this season for the Davidsson brothers but go for the career stats for the finnish guys becose it better fits your agenda. Doesnt really matter though, silly argument anyways. Linus Söderström was a steaming pile of donkey dookie last season in Finland and now he doninates SHL. Karlkvist the same year before. What does this prove? Nothing really. Neither do Davidsons' stats.
 

ItWasJustified

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Jan 1, 2015
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So you decided to only count this season for the Davidsson brothers but go for the career stats for the finnish guys becose it better fits your agenda. Doesnt really matter though, silly argument anyways. Linus Söderström was a steaming pile of donkey dookie last season in Finland and now he doninates SHL. Karlkvist the same year before. What does this prove? Nothing really. Neither do Davidsons' stats.
Linus Söderström has had a bunch of years when he's been injured. And now he's working with a great goalie coach.

But yeah, it doesn't matter. Tappara would still be a team that would fight against relegation in the SHL. Probably around 10th place. Liiga is slightly better than Hockeyallsvenskan. that's the truth no matter how much you want it to be something else.
 

Lartsaman

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Aug 2, 2018
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Finland
But yeah, it doesn't matter. Tappara would still be a team that would fight against relegation in the SHL. Probably around 10th place. Liiga is slightly better than Hockeyallsvenskan. that's the truth no matter how much you want it to be something else.

Tappara might be somewhere in the middle, theres about 5-6 stronger teams in SHL. SHL is stronger than Liiga and we all know that, but claiming that Tappara would battle relegation there is just exaggerating.
 

Albatros

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Aug 19, 2017
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No, they weren't lol. Take a look at the SHL table. Just because you luck your way through a shootout doesn't mean you're the best team.
Frölunda had two games to not let it get to that shootout and they couldn't best Luleå.

Skellefteå in turn was eliminated by Frölunda just the same way the round before, so the top teams had their chance and Luleå came on top fair and square.
 

Razamanaz

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Oct 22, 2017
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Northern Hemisphere.
Frölunda had two games to not let it get to that shootout and they couldn't best Luleå.

Skellefteå in turn was eliminated by Frölunda just the same way the round before, so the top teams had their chance and Luleå came on top fair and square.
And Ilves have probably more fans in Tampere (Tammerfors) than Tappara - so there ya go ... somehow!
1677037131308.png
 

karhukissa

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Apr 2, 2019
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Linus Söderström has had a bunch of years when he's been injured. And now he's working with a great goalie coach.

But yeah, it doesn't matter. Tappara would still be a team that would fight against relegation in the SHL. Probably around 10th place. Liiga is slightly better than Hockeyallsvenskan. that's the truth no matter how much you want it to be something else.
I don't think a Swedish mouthbreather who has seen zero Liiga games is in a position to make such statement, how could you? Liiga teams have already swept floors with Team Sweden full of NHL stars so either Hockeyallsvenskan is better than you think or then you just don't know much.

Finland is the best national team if we build teams only around European players, and there are lot of core players from Liiga. You haven't seen any games so you can't comment, just like i haven't seen any SHL games.
 

ijuka

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May 14, 2016
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Linus Söderström has had a bunch of years when he's been injured. And now he's working with a great goalie coach.

But yeah, it doesn't matter. Tappara would still be a team that would fight against relegation in the SHL. Probably around 10th place. Liiga is slightly better than Hockeyallsvenskan. that's the truth no matter how much you want it to be something else.
Tappara fighting for relegation in SHL? Come on, look at that roster.

I get being disappointed in SHL's performance but this is a bit much. I know Finland's Liiga has serious problems with some teams being subpar and not even deserving to be in the league, but Tappara does not have thie issue.
 
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Hinterland

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Sep 29, 2016
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Linus Söderström has had a bunch of years when he's been injured. And now he's working with a great goalie coach.

But yeah, it doesn't matter. Tappara would still be a team that would fight against relegation in the SHL. Probably around 10th place. Liiga is slightly better than Hockeyallsvenskan. that's the truth no matter how much you want it to be something else.
Well, I agree that winning a title of a tournament where almost all participants actually lose money doesn't mean much.

Having said that, I think you overrate the SHL quite a bit. It's Europe's best development league. They produce far more NHL players and other star players than any other European league. I'd argue that Swedish coaches are the best as well. When it comes to money or individual quality of the players though I'm not convinced. Many SHL went bankrupt over the last years or are still near bankrupt. None of them have money the money to actually hold onto their best players. Many talented players leave Sweden as soon as they can. That does affect the on ice product, despite the good development structures in place.

In the lone real CHL we saw, Espoo Blues and ZSC Lions were the only clubs able to compete with the KHL teams. SHL teams combined for one win... out of 8 games. Granted, that was 2009 and the SHL made a step forward since. Still, it's stupid to claim Tappara wouldn't be a top club in the SHL.
 
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Yozhik v tumane

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Jan 2, 2019
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When it comes to money or individual quality of the players though I'm not convinced. Many SHL went bankrupt over the last years or are still near bankrupt. None of them have money the money to actually hold onto their best players.

What SHL teams went bankrupt? I can recall a few instances of teams going bankrupt or losing their license to compete in Hockeyallsvenskan because of a crap financial situation some time after being demoted from the SHL/SEL: Västerås, Björklöven and — most recently — Karlskrona springs to mind, but no SHL team has gone bankrupt in modern times, per my knowledge.

Karlskrona was a very notable case where they were absolutely screwed by the SHL, however. Once they’d been promoted to the SHL, they were forced to expand their arena in order to have it fulfill the minimum requirements of capacity. I don’t know about all the details, I think the cost of expanding the arena was carried by the taxpayers, but I’d guess that the running costs likely increased with the new arena and weighed down the club following demotion and played into their financial troubles mounting, in addition to the harsh reality of moving from SHL money to HA money. No team prior to Karlskrona, nor since, have been forced to expand their arena following SHL promotion. It’s been more of a suggestion to Oskarshamn, which they’ve ignored.

At any rate, Karlskrona wasn’t an SHL team when they were demoted due to poor finances.

It’s true the SHL obviously can’t really compete with the KHL and the NLA for top names, otherwise we’d have seen more of them choosing to play in the league. Teams would probably have to overpay the Wallmarks etc by a sizable amount in order to make the SHL seem as lucrative an option as Switzerland is, due to its low taxes. On the other hand, teams seem to do a whole lot of tax planning, through pension funds mainly, which I think helps them keep some players who otherwise would scoot off abroad. It seems that SHL teams many times will boast better talent depth through their rosters than teams from the NLA. Of course the increased amount of foreign players allowed should close that gap considerably.

As to the claim Tappara would be a bottom tier team in the SHL: don’t feed that troll.
 
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SoundAndFury

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May 28, 2012
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Latvian teams never even had a chance to participate. Hockey crazy nation and they dont even get their team to this league and country like Poland does.
Latvia has no teams, fans or arenas to play in it. They could get in by winning the continental cup like Cracowia, a Polish team, played in it this season but they never got even close to it. Furthermore, the team with the highest attendance in the Latvian league is in.. Vilnius, Lithuania. So hockey crazy nation is actually not that crazy about local hockey. Like, not at all. If not for two weeks during WC you wouldn't know such a sport exists.

Man, Slovakian league must be really weak.
What?
 

GX

Registered User
Dec 28, 2011
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Latvia has no teams, fans or arenas to play in it. They could get in by winning the continental cup like Cracowia, a Polish team, played in it this season but they never got even close to it. Furthermore, the team with the highest attendance in the Latvian league is in.. Vilnius, Lithuania. So hockey crazy nation is actually not that crazy about local hockey. Like, not at all. If not for two weeks during WC you wouldn't know such a sport exists.
Well, if Zemgale played their Mestis and notable local league games in Arena Riga and not that 20-year old shed in Jelgava, it would be attainable. Add a bit of marketing money, one relatively cheap star player (i.e., Rihards Marenis or Rihards Bukarts), and you could get regular attendance of ~2000 people.

Overall, hockey still has local interest, if it was ever developed as a product. Unfortunately, federation and most clubs don't give a shit about attendance. And most small rinks in Latvia are terrible, compared to what I saw from Vilnius or Kaunas this year. But that's a discussion for another thread. :)
 

SoundAndFury

Registered User
May 28, 2012
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Well, if Zemgale played their Mestis and notable local league games in Arena Riga and not that 20-year old shed in Jelgava, it would be attainable. Add a bit of marketing money, one relatively cheap star player (i.e., Rihards Marenis or Rihards Bukarts), and you could get regular attendance of ~2000 people.

Overall, hockey still has local interest, if it was ever developed as a product. Unfortunately, federation and most clubs don't give a shit about attendance.
While I agree completely, that's exactly my point. 30+ years and nothing has really changed in that sense and little effort was made. At this point, even something like Slovenia has a much healthier hockey pyramid, not to mention Hungary or Kazakhstan. It's really difficult to understand how is domestic Latvian hockey so poor, money-wise. I could understand it in 2003 but now it's just weird. I guess all the attention Dinamo got over the last 15 years is to blame.

It also kinda leaks over to the state of Latvian NT, once the "this and this and this guy plays in the KHL" blanket was pulled off, all that's left is a very mediocre group of Euro pros where very few actually can make it in the top European leagues. But that's also a discussion for another thread and I get the sense the topic Latvians themselves aren't very willing to face.
 
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Lackhalak

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May 26, 2017
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While I agree completely, that's exactly my point. 30+ years and nothing has really changed in that sense and little effort was made. At this point, even something like Slovenia has a much healthier hockey pyramid, not to mention Hungary or Kazakhstan. It's really difficult to understand how is domestic Latvian hockey so poor, money-wise. I could understand it in 2003 but now it's just weird. I guess all the attention Dinamo got over the last 15 years is to blame.







It also kinda leaks over to the state of Latvian NT, once the "this and this and this guy plays in the KHL" blanket was pulled off, all that's left is a very mediocre group of Euro pros where very few actually can make it in the top European leagues. But that's also a discussion for another thread and I get the sense the topic Latvians themselves aren't very willing to face.





Time for the Baltics to join Liiga. There are about 5-6 good arenas in well populated areas that would do well in a Liiga/mestis league with relegation
 

SoundAndFury

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May 28, 2012
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@Lackhalak And who is funding those teams? Like we said, there is hardly money for semi-pro teams in garbage arenas. Who is funding pro rosters, bus trips, ferry rides, hotel stays, arena costs, marketing campaigns to get those projects off the ground? Because definitely not the fans in the stands.

Latvia having one flagship team in Riga might be a viable option, even from a financial perspective. I will give you that. But they also would need a more suitable arena, current ones are either too big or too small. And again, someone crazy enough to risk his money on that kind of project. But hey, Hungary, Slovenia, Romania somehow manage to have pro teams so.. maybe?
 
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