Confirmed Trade: [CGY/EDM] James Neal for Milan Lucic (12.5% retained) and a 2020 conditional 3rd round pick Part 2

[Soundwave]

Lol and that's all well and good for Edmonton. Neal just didnt fit with us and he had ample opportunity with our top guys.
He couldn't even get 20 points on the top seed in the west, and Lucic got 20 on a non playoff team.
It's a garbage for garbage trade. Weather Neal rebounds next to McDavid next year is irrelevant. He obviously wasnt going to here.

I mean there was no way the Oilers were going to get out of the Lucic contract in any kind of favorable way after 2 awful seasons.

Of the realistic options -- taking on a player like Okposo, Backes, Neal, or Eriksson ... Neal is probably the best actual player of that group and the only one only a season removed from a pretty good year.

The fact that they were able to get out of a buy out proof contract like without giving up a high draft pick is pretty much a minor miracle. I never bought that they'd give up like Bouchard to get rid of Lucic, but when the Leafs trade Marleau for a 1st, and Marleau only has 1 year left on his contract ... that set a bad precedent.

 

[5 14 6 1]

Holland traded a boat anchor, and got back a canoe with a hole in it. I take the canoe with the hope he gets himself in condition and can build chemistry with McDavid or Nuge

 

[McFlyingV]

Lucic was honestly a bad fit from the get go, his point totals early on were propped up by him being force fed top unit PP time with McDavid, but I knew something was wrong when Patrick Maroon basically quickly took over the top LW spot from him.

What changed is that PP scoring dried up and Lucic then couldn't buy a goal.

Lucic also has a degenerative back condition ... it's why he has that hunch in his back. It's not bad enough to force him to retire, but I do suspect it has started to impact his ability on the ice.

Scheuermann's disease is not a degenerative disease, it's a developmental disorder. It can give people issues, but I don't think it's the reason for Lucic's decline. I think the reason for his decline is that the NHL has moved to much more of a speed and skill game in the regular season. Lucic was never overly skilled or fast, but rather created his offence with his size and physical game to create turn overs. His skating has declined, and the game has got much faster, and now he finds he can't be effective using his size to create offence because he's never in the right position at the right time to throw a big hit or overpower guys to win puck battles. Defenders just beat him to pucks, elude his forechecking, and move the puck before he can create havoc.

 

[bobbythebrain]

Lol!! NO, OUR GARBAGE IS WORSE THAN YOUR GARBAGE. Both players will suck next year, but at least looch will hit someone. Both teams lost this trade by signing these bums un the first place lol

New poster. No creds . Move on

 

[Tobias Kahun]

I bet Neal doesn't score 20 and therefore no 3rd rounder for Calgary. If he is at 19-20 goals and there are a handful of games left with no playoffs then, I'd healthy scratch him for the remainder of the season. Neal rebounding would be a one off anyway at his age.

Also Neal would be bought out, if he sucks. A buyout is never a good thing as it means you made a mistake in acquiring him.

A one off at his age?

 

[Schred]

I mean there was no way the Oilers were going to get out of the Lucic contract in any kind of favorable way after 2 awful seasons.

Of the realistic options -- taking on a player like Okposo, Backes, Neal, or Eriksson ... Neal is probably the best actual player of that group and the only one only a season removed from a pretty good year.

The fact that they were able to get out of a buy out proof contract like without giving up a high draft pick is pretty much a minor miracle. I never bought that they'd give up like Bouchard to get rid of Lucic, but when the Leafs trade Marleau for a 1st, and Marleau only has 1 year left on his contract ... that set a bad precedent.

Ya lol it sucks to help Edmonton out of a terrible contract. But they helped us out of our worst contract as well.
Like I said, i think they will both fit better on their new teams...Honestly, not like they can do much worse, but it's still a terrible contract with retention for a really bad contract.
At least with this and the goalie swap it should make for an entertaining BOA to say the least.

 

[McFlyingV]

Lol and that's all well and good for Edmonton. Neal just didnt fit with us and he had ample opportunity with our top guys.
He couldn't even get 20 points on the top seed in the west, and Lucic got 20 on a non playoff team.
It's a garbage for garbage trade. Weather Neal rebounds next to McDavid next year is irrelevant. He obviously wasnt going to here.

Context matters. Neal played 16 less games than Lucic, and Lucic spent almost half of his icetime with McDavid and Draisaitl, or RNH. On the other hand, Neal spent far less time in Calgary's top 6.

Lucic is likely to get less opportunity in Calgary, and Neal is likely to get much more in Edmonton. It's highly likely that Neal outscores Lucic next season by a decent amount.

 

[Seachd]

Just read the condition on the pick. Just wow. Thought it was going to be something like; will become a 2nd if Neal scores 15 goals. But now, Jesus. Holland, you aren't to old for this yet.

Neal needs to score 21 or more and Lucic needs to score less then 10 for the pick to go to the Flames. If just one happens the pick won't change hands.

Ps, sorry if someone already posted this

Not quite. Neal needs to score 21, and Lucic needs to score at least 10 fewer than Neal.

So Neal gets 20 and Lucic gets 3, no pick.
Neal gets 21 and Lucic gets 11, pick.

 

[Schred]

Context matters. Neal played 16 less games than Lucic, and Lucic spent almost half of his icetime with McDavid and Draisaitl, or RNH. On the other hand, Neal spent far less time in Calgary's top 6.

Lucic is likely to get less opportunity in Calgary, and Neal is likely to get much more in Edmonton. It's highly likely that Neal outscores Lucic next season by a decent amount.

Ya context matters...like Lucic's 240 hits compared to Neal's 50. We need toughness and you need scoring. If it werent for the massive contracts it might even be a win win trade.

 

[Oddbob]

Am I the only one who thinks this trade is weird for both teams?

-Edmonton got rid of Lucic, but they now have an extra $500,000 against the cap for the same amount of years.

-Calgary takes on Lucic, but they only get a 3rd rounder and saving $500,000 against their cap for the same amount of years.

-Is Edmonton's plan either to hope Neal bounces back, or buy him out next summer with better buyout situation than Lucic?

-Does Calgary think a 3rd round pick and small cap savings is worth taking on Lucic who seems to be getting worse by the year, and basically isn't worth buying out?

I am confused.

 

[McSuper]

I think both player will do better with their new teams. Obviously neither fit their roles with their current teams .

Lucic will be played in a proper role . A 3rd lined that will go out and cycle the puck , play physical and punch faces . I expect he will produce 30 to 35 points . Still over paid but he will provide the Flames with a needed element.

Neal will also find himself in a role better suited to his skills . He will be in the top 6 and be used as a shooter . Put him on the first PP and he should regain some confidence.

In the end I think both teams add something they need .

 

[Oddbob]

Neal also has to hit 21

That is such an odd condition, haven't seen too many with specific stat based conditions such as these.

 

[McFlyingV]

Ya context matters...like Lucic's 240 hits compared to Neal's 50. We need toughness and you need scoring. If it werent for the massive contracts it might even be a win win trade.

Hits don't win hockey games, especially not when the puck is long gone when the hit occurs which is almost always the case with Lucic. Point is Lucic's 20 points in Edmonton is the best case scenario for him barring some sort of unforeseen divine intervention. He won't get the same quality of line mate as he got in Edmonton while playing in Calgary's bottom 6.

 

[McFlyingV]

I think both player will do better with their new teams. Obviously neither fit their roles with their current teams .

Lucic will be played in a proper role . A 3rd lined that will go out and cycle the puck , play physical and punch faces . I expect he will produce 30 to 35 points . Still over paid but he will provide the Flames with a needed element.

Neal will also find himself in a role better suited to his skills . He will be in the top 6 and be used as a shooter . Put him on the first PP and he should regain some confidence.

In the end I think both teams add something they need .

Lucic was used in a 3rd line role here and his production was worse than when he was playing in the top 6. I'll believe it when I see it.

 

[Goose]

I don’t like this for Calgary at all.

 

[McFlyingV]

Am I the only one who thinks this trade is weird for both teams?

-Edmonton got rid of Lucic, but they now have an extra $500,000 against the cap for the same amount of years.

-Calgary takes on Lucic, but they only get a 3rd rounder and saving $500,000 against their cap for the same amount of years.

-Is Edmonton's plan either to hope Neal bounces back, or buy him out next summer with better buyout situation than Lucic?

-Does Calgary think a 3rd round pick and small cap savings is worth taking on Lucic who seems to be getting worse by the year, and basically isn't worth buying out?

I am confused.

Edmonton's thought process is they get a guy who had one down year after 10 straight 20+ goal campaigns. So yes, they're hoping he bounces back because they know Lucic was never going to. They give up a 3rd rounder only if Neal scores at least 21 goals and 10 more than Lucic. They get a contract that's easier to buy out, and which doesn't contain a NMC for expansion purposes. For 500k cap hit extra it makes a lot of sense.

 

[McSuper]

Lucic was used in a 3rd line role here and his production was worse than when he was playing in the top 6. I'll believe it when I see it.

2 problems with this . One Edmonton’s scoring out side of their top 6 was the worst in the last 42 years . No one was scoring in the bottom 6

Two Lucic was moved up and down the lineup after his confidence was gone . Coach needs to keep it simple “ Lucic go out and bang bodies “

 

[McFlyingV]

2 problems with this . One Edmonton’s scoring out side of their top 6 was the worst in the last 42 years . No one was scoring in the bottom 6

Two Lucic was moved up and down the lineup after his confidence was gone . Coach needs to keep it simple “ Lucic go out and bang bodies “

That's all great, but what makes you think that he's going to be able to produce more with 3rd liners when he couldn't with two 100 point players and a 70 point player? Lucic is far too slow to go out and bang bodies to create offence. He's also not a good cycle player because he has terrible hands and always loses the puck while trying to protect it.

He'll give Calgary a fighter who can intimidate people when he's on the ice, but he's not better than 9 forwards on the Flames roster to belong in the top 9.

 

[BB88]

I don’t like this for Calgary at all.

Neither should like this.

One team has Lucic at 5.25M and the other Neal at 6.5M, both were garbage last season.

 

[Oddbob]

Edmonton's thought process is they get a guy who had one down year after 10 straight 20+ goal campaigns. So yes, they're hoping he bounces back because they know Lucic was never going to. They give up a 3rd rounder only if Neal scores at least 21 goals and 10 more than Lucic. They get a contract that's easier to buy out, and which doesn't contain a NMC for expansion purposes. For 500k cap hit extra it makes a lot of sense.

Then why for Calgary that makes it even worse for them!

 

[McFlyingV]

Then why for Calgary that makes it even worse for them!

 

[The Stig]

While taking on a no move clause and a less productive player.

It's like seeing a spider on your couch so your solution is to burn the couch. Sure you killed the spider problem, but you took out half your living room in the process.

 

[McFlyingV]

Neither should like this.

One team has Lucic at 5.25M and the other Neal at 6.5M, both were garbage last season.

Edmonton absolutely should like this. It sets them up better for the duration of the contract if they want to buyout, they drop the NMC, and they get a player who is only 1 year removed from a good season for a guy who is one unsustainable PP production season away from being 3 years removed from a good season. One of these players was spoon fed minutes with two of the top 5 scorers in the NHL and a 70 point centre, while the other barely played in the top 6.

 

[Schred]

Hits don't win hockey games, especially not when the puck is long gone when the hit occurs which is almost always the case with Lucic. Point is Lucic's 20 points in Edmonton is the best case scenario for him barring some sort of unforeseen divine intervention. He won't get the same quality of line mate as he got in Edmonton while playing in Calgary's bottom 6.

Hahaha okay you're right. Hits dont matter and oilers finally got the winger of McDavids dream.
I'm done. If you have to define winning a trade as 'our player is worse than your player', it's a marginal win, if that.
It's a bad contract for a bad contract with hopes that they wont be quite as bad lol

 

[McFlyingV]

Hahaha okay you're right. Hits dont matter and oilers finally got the winger of McDavids dream.
I'm done. If you have to define winning a trade as 'our player is worse than your player', it's a marginal win, if that.
It's a bad contract for a bad contract with hopes that they wont be quite as bad lol

It is a bad contract for a bad contract you are correct. I never said anything about Neal being the winger of McDavid's dream, but he's far more likely to bounce back than Lucic. If you watched Lucic all season you would see why his hits don't help you win hockey games. They're late and highly ineffective at pressuring defenders or creating turnovers.

The Oilers win the deal solely because they shed a NMC and a buyout proof contract. If James Neal bounces back in the top 6 and scores 20 goals then they win by an absolute landslide. It's not even about winning the deal at the end of the day though, its about it potentially improving the Oilers chance at surrounding McDavid, Draisaitl and Nuge with better talent. We know Neal is likely more talented than Lucic, and the stats agree with that notion especially when you consider line mates. We also know that if Neal is trash the Oilers can buy him out and open up almost 3.5M to spend elsewhere. The loss of Lucic is non-existent because he didn't bring anything more than a 4th liner you can sign for 1M or cheaper.