Confirmed Trade: [CGY/EDM] James Neal for Milan Lucic (12.5% retained) and a 2020 conditional 3rd round pick Part 2

[McRpro]

Hahaha okay you're right. Hits dont matter and oilers finally got the winger of McDavids dream.
I'm done. If you have to define winning a trade as 'our player is worse than your player', it's a marginal win, if that.
It's a bad contract for a bad contract with hopes that they wont be quite as bad lol

If this exact trade was proposed prior to the trade, Flames fans would have laughed their asses off and expected a first round pick added, at least. Now there's some Flames fans trying to justify it. Face it, Calgary got bent over.

 

[duul]

There is no way humanly possible that Neal is less capable than Lucic, so I'm happy.

Lucic isn't even an NHLer anymore. I would be shocked if he wasn't healthy scratched all of next season by Calgary.

 

[JeremyTB]

You know player's are awful when divisional rivals are willing to trade with eachother and have neither team get much in return. Oilers would never trade Lucic to Calgary for that low of a package if they thought that there was even a slim chance he would succeed there. And the same for Calgary trading Neal to the Oilers.

 

[McFlyingV]

There is no way humanly possible that Neal is less capable than Lucic, so I'm happy.

Lucic isn't even an NHLer anymore. I would be shocked if he wasn't healthy scratched all of next season by Calgary.

Lucic certainly is no better than a replacement level player. That's the big reason why this is a win for Edmonton. There's a chance that Neal will be above that level if he actually gets top 6 time that he didn't get in Calgary. There however, is no chance that Lucic brings any more than a lot of the 3rd/4th liner signings that Holland made this summer.

 

[McFlyingV]

You know player's are awful when divisional rivals are willing to trade with eachother and have neither team get much in return. Oilers would never trade Lucic to Calgary for that low of a package if they thought that there was even a slim chance he would succeed there. And the same for Calgary trading Neal to the Oilers.

Explain the conditions on the 3rd round pick then if Calgary thinks that there is zero chance that Neal succeeds in Edmonton.

 

[CupInSIX]

I think it is worth the risk for one year you see if Neal has 20 goals in him then go for the buyout

as bad as his year was I do not see any FA options who are a sure thing to be better

I'm sorry, were you actually bragging in the other thread that the Oilers now have 6.5m in Neal's albatross contract + 750k retained on Lucic for 4 years??

 

[Schred]

It is a bad contract for a bad contract you are correct. I never said anything about Neal being the winger of McDavid's dream, but he's far more likely to bounce back than Lucic. If you watched Lucic all season you would see why his hits don't help you win hockey games. They're late and highly ineffective at pressuring defenders or creating turnovers.

The Oilers win the deal solely because they shed a NMC and a buyout proof contract. If James Neal bounces back in the top 6 and scores 20 goals then they win by an absolute landslide. It's not even about winning the deal at the end of the day though, its about it potentially improving the Oilers chance at surrounding McDavid, Draisaitl and Nuge with better talent. We know Neal is likely more talented than Lucic, and the stats agree with that notion especially when you consider line mates. We also know that if Neal is trash the Oilers can buy him out and open up almost 3.5M to spend elsewhere. The loss of Lucic is non-existent because he didn't bring anything more than a 4th liner you can sign for 1M or cheaper.

I'm not saying Neal isn't better than Lucic. I'm saying that Lucic is a better fit for us than Neal was. Lucic will be in the bottom 6 just like Neal was for us(even though he had lots of PP opportunity and started every shift after the PK with Johnny and Mony.
We needed toughness, not scoring. You win the trade on paper for sure, but unless Neal does a 180 from where he was last year it's not by as much as you think.

 

[JeremyTB]

Explain the conditions on the 3rd round pick then if Calgary thinks that there is zero chance that Neal succeeds in Edmonton.

Even with the conditions a 3rd round pick is not likely to get them much unless they get lucky. If they had faith in Neal they would have asked for a 1st round pick. Especially considering they had to take Lucic who Oilers couldn't give away.

 

[McFlyingV]

Even with the conditions a 3rd round pick is not likely to get them much unless they get lucky. If they had faith in Neal they would have asked for a 1st round pick. Especially considering they had to take Lucic who Oilers couldn't give away.

And obviously the Oilers would have declined if a 1st round pick was the ask. A 3rd is reasonable ask for the swap, but the fact that they only get it if Neal scores 21+ goals indicates that they think its more than even just a slim chance. And really when you look at who he's likely going to be playing with its not hard to imagine why.

 

[McFlyingV]

I'm not saying Neal isn't better than Lucic. I'm saying that Lucic is a better fit for us than Neal was. Lucic will be in the bottom 6 just like Neal was for us(even though he had lots of PP opportunity and started every shift after the PK with Johnny and Mony.
We needed toughness, not scoring. You win the trade on paper for sure, but unless Neal does a 180 from where he was last year it's not by as much as you think.

I just fail to see how Lucic brings anything better than your current bottom 6 aside from fighting, which he did only 3 times last season because nobody will fight him. I like physical players, but when they can't use that physicality to create turnovers, offence, or regain possession then its largely futile, and thats where Lucic is at in his career with his poor skating and the league getting faster.

Even just more opportunity for Neal and better puck luck should return him to more reasonable numbers. He spent 100 minutes total with Monahan and Gaudreau at even strength, while he's likely to play exclusively with McDavid and Draisaitl or RNH. He had a bad year, he obviously wasn't happy with the situation in Calgary, and it sounds like he wasn't putting in the effort in because he didn't like his situation. I think it's far more likely that those factors, along with a shooting % half his career norm is why he had a year that bad (which was still better than Lucic's). I don't think we'll ever see Pittsburgh/Nashville Neal ever again, but its far from out of the question that Vegas Neal from 1 year ago is still in there. What better way to see if thats true than spoon feeding him top 6 minutes with 2 100 point players and a 70 point player like Lucic got over the past two seasons.

 

[Sweoilers]

Not quite. Neal needs to score 21, and Lucic needs to score at least 10 fewer than Neal.

So Neal gets 20 and Lucic gets 3, no pick.
Neal gets 21 and Lucic gets 11, pick.

My bad. Still I'm okey with that condition. A third has what, 15% chance of becoming an NHLer or something like that.

 

[DFF]

Barely. Lucic can't keep up. His speed doesn't quite cost you games because you only put him out in the last 5 minutes of a game maybe 4 games a year. Otherwise he just doesn't look effective enough.

Unfortunately, some coaches have overused him there.

Remember how laughable Looch has been burned in 3on3? He doesn't play there either.

He certainly doesn't kill penalties.

His fighting is rarer. He'll win the few a year he participates in though.

James Neal doesn't fit any of those slots either, but he can shoot the damn puck.

I have been so frustrated with the Oilers for not ever properly acquiring a sniper. I still don't feel like we have who I have been hoping for but we're damn better off with the one thing Neal brings than Lucic's limited but more broad usefulness.

Neal 's shot is gone

 

[McFlyingV]

Neal 's shot is gone

And where exactly did it go when it was there a year ago in Vegas?

 

[JT Kreider]

If this exact trade was proposed prior to the trade, Flames fans would have laughed their asses off and expected a first round pick added, at least. Now there's some Flames fans trying to justify it. Face it, Calgary got bent over.

How did they get bent over? They traded Neal for Lucic. They got a 3rd round pick and some cap space. Its such a minor deal that isn't going to negatively or positively change anything for them one way or the other on the ice.

Probably the same for Edmonton, you are still in the same boat in terms of salary cap (actually worse off) which was always the real concern when it came to Lucic.

 

[JT Kreider]

And where exactly did it go when it was there a year ago in Vegas?

That is where it went

 

[McFlyingV]

How did they get bent over? They traded Neal for Lucic. They got a 3rd round pick and some cap space. Its such a minor deal that isn't going to negatively or positively change anything for them one way or the other on the ice.

Probably the same for Edmonton, you are still in the same boat in terms of salary cap (actually worse off( which was always the real concern when it came to Lucic.

Well Calgary only gets that 3rd if Neal scores 21 goals and 10 more than Lucic otherwise they don't get a pick. The struggle was always salary cap to find a top 6 winger. If Neal scores those 21 goals needed for the draft pick then they just found their top 6 winger they needed Lucic's cap hit for.

 

[McShogun99]

Lucic played like a guy that just didn't care the last 2 seasons. The few times he did show up made you appreciate what he is capable of. Even with him on the bench or not contributing on the score board will allow the Flames to play a little bit taller. He's still not worth the 5.25 million that the Flames will be paying him, just like Neil won't be worth the 6.5 million the Oilers will be paying, even if he scores 20 goals.

 

[DFF]

And where exactly did it go when it was there a year ago in Vegas?

I don't know , he was given plenty of opportunities but couldn't score to save his life. His overrated shots were pathetic...it was actually gone in the later part of Vegas too but nobody noticed since he had a great first half.

The oilers lack weapons so they may spoon fed him and somehow he may recover it but it would never happen in Calgary and he is a f***ing cried baby so I am glad he is gone

 

[McFlyingV]

That is where it went

This is supposed to show me that Neal's shot is gone? I've seen so many NHLers hit the post on a wide open net, even many star players. One isolated incident surely disproves the 25 goals in 71 games he scored that season.

 

[DANTHEMAN1967]

The five stages of grief of a Calgary fan:

DENIAL
"No, it's not true! There must be a mistake!"

ANGER
"This is the stupidest thing I have ever heard! Why would we want Lucic?!?"

BARGAINING
"Well Neil sucked last year too and we need toughness, maybe he'll add intangibles"

DEPRESSION
"Oh what's the point? Every time the Flames take one step forward they take two steps back!"

ACCEPTANCE
"Well Lucic is a Flame now it is what it is, maybe Treliving will now get us what we really need a second line center. Maybe the Leafs will trade Kadri...ah crap!"

 

[McFlyingV]

I don't know , he was given plenty of opportunities but couldn't score to save his life. His overrated shots were pathetic...it was actually gone in the later part of Vegas too but nobody noticed since he had a great first half.

The oilers lack weapons so they may spoon fed him and somehow he may recover it but it would never happen in Calgary and he is a ****ing cried baby so I am glad he is gone

He really didn't get as much opportunity as everyone is saying. He played 100 minutes total at even strength with Monahan and Gaudreau, and 100 with Tkachuk. Seems highly unlikely that a player's shot would just disappear in the middle of a season out of nowhere at 30 with no serious injury. Neal however, has always been a streaky scorer so his goal scoring drought to end the season is not out of the ordinary for him. He had a terrible drought when he first got to Pittsburgh.

Your last point I actually agree with. He likely was never going to get the opportunity in Calgary to be a top 6 player and thats why he is likely a much better fit in Edmonton. I'm not sure, however, where Lucic fits into the Calgary line up. Talk of him playing 3rd line seems like a mistake when he just produced at a 4th line rate while playing significant minutes with McDavid, Draisaitl, and RNH as well as PP time. He'll bring toughness, but I don't think he's actually better than the 12 forwards you would play on the roster otherwise.

 

[Tkachuky]

My bad. Still I'm okey with that condition. A third has what, 15% chance of becoming an NHLer or something like that.

Which is higher percentage than either Neal or Lucic being a positive impact to either team.

 

[McFlyingV]

Which is higher percentage than either Neal or Lucic being a positive impact to either team.

Neal has to have a positive impact for Calgary to even get the pick though, thats what is so great about the conditions.

 

[BB88]

Edmonton absolutely should like this. It sets them up better for the duration of the contract if they want to buyout, they drop the NMC, and they get a player who is only 1 year removed from a good season for a guy who is one unsustainable PP production season away from being 3 years removed from a good season. One of these players was spoon fed minutes with two of the top 5 scorers in the NHL and a 70 point centre, while the other barely played in the top 6.

I guess it gives hope for a better shot.

But you have to admit it was a hellish year for Neal in Calgary and they are taking more money(cap wise) than what Lucic was bringing them, and if you save on buying out Neal you still have Lucic's retained money on the books for 4 years at .750M
.
At 32y the odds at longterm improvements aren't at the highest. Neither of the 2 really bring a lot to the table when they aren't scoring.

 

[Tkachuky]

Neal has to have a positive impact for Calgary to even get the pick though, thats what is so great about the conditions.

Imo, it will be close.

Either way, it’s funny because all of last year oilers fans laughed at the Flames for having Neal and how bad he was. And Flames fans/HF in general laughed at Lucic for being bad and useless. Just goes to show.

As a Flames fans, I don’t think it’s as bad as some people say it is for either team. The “what these players used to be” factor is making people think that each will magically be what they were or close to it.