Prospect Info: CBJ Prospect Thread VII

[Theo Von]

Here again is my own personal rankings for our prospects.

Same criteria: How good they are now, how good they can be, and the likelihood they get to that ceiling. All of these, of course, are in my opinion.

Last years list:

This years list:

Graduated: Bjorkstrand, PLD, Milano, Hannikainen

1. Merzlikins
2. Gavrikov
3. Foudy
4. Abramov
5. Texier
6. Davidsson
7. Stenlund
8. Peeke
9. Carlsson
10. Marchenko
11. Tarasov
12. Kukan
13. Vehvilainen
14. Bemstrom
15. Karlberg
16. Vigneault
17. Thurkauf
18. Berni
19. Fortier
20. Kivlenieks

What I find interesting about our pool is how hard to rate the people from 7-20. Usually you can name the top prospects pretty easily, but after our first 5 or so, it gets really compacted and you can make many arguments for different guys.

I picked Merzlikins as our top prospect because I think he can be a very solid NHL starter right now with potential stardom if he came over. However, that will not be the case this season. So we wait.

Gavrikov over Foudy because I think his ceiling is higher and his ability to reach the ceiling is certainly higher. Foudy is very boom or bust, and this next season will be an important indicator of his true offensive talent.

Little to no movement for Texier or Abramov. Texier had a good year against men, but his injuries bother me, and even though he has a high ceiling, he is very unlikely to hit the top end.

Abramov had a very disappointing World Juniors, but had obviously blew up the QMJHL (again). The world junior performance really soured him for me, since he was a 19 year old and should have at least been noticeable. He wasn't. His stats are impressive in the Q, but he really needed better competition. His first AHL year upcoming will help him not only play against men, but projecting his future.

People will ask why Kukan is low since he will likely make the team either as an extra or a 3rd pairing guy. Because I don't see him being more than what he is right now. And that is average. He's one of the cases where his ceiling is low, but very likely to reach it. Always valuable to have in a pool, but unlikely to get alot of love.

Prospects I've given up on: Collins, Siebenaler, Sherwood, and Bittner.

Injuries, repeated poor play, or both have caused these prospects to bust. Probable career journeyman AHLers or European players.

Prospects To Watch: Abramov, Davidsson, Stenlund, Carlsson, and Foudy.

All turning pro, or in Foudy's case about to get a ton of ice time on a top tier junior team. It's most important for our future that these guys pan out.

In Carlsson's case, he was spoonfed minutes he didn't deserve in first coming to NA by playing in the Pittsburgh series, and responded last season with a subpar at best season and injury issues. It's not make or break by any means, he's only like 22 and a defenseman, but we've got to see improvement.

Potential riser: Bemstrom

I dig this post but one quirk... why have you given up on Sherwood already? I get that he was an overager in the O last season but he still had some pretty solid stats (unlike Collins, Blake, and Bittner). 30 goals in 57 games in the reg season for Kitchener.. ppg. His playoff performance is really what made me think higher of him than I had been before.. 14 goals, 26 points in 19 playoff games for the Rangers. Helped them get to the third round. Not too shabby. I wouldn’t be so quick to write him off. This upcoming season for Cleveland will tell a lot. Will his game translate to the professional level? Hope so. But we’ll soon find out.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

I dig this post but one quirk... why have you given up on Sherwood already? I get that he was an overager in the O last season but he still had some pretty solid stats (unlike Collins, Blake, and Bittner). 30 goals in 57 games in the reg season for Kitchener.. ppg. His playoff performance is really what made me think higher of him than I had been before.. 14 goals, 26 points in 19 playoff games for the Rangers. Helped them get to the third round. Not too shabby. I wouldn’t be so quick to write him off. This upcoming season for Cleveland will tell a lot. Will his game translate to the professional level? Hope so. But we’ll soon find out.

To be completely transparent, I was never high on Sherwood anyway. It was a cool story for him to come to development camp and all that, but I was a tad annoyed when we signed him to an ELC just based off of a development camp and the fact he was a local. There was a reason why he was undrafted. But no harm no foul, it wans't like we gave up anything to do it.

Anyway, Sherwood was supposed to be an AHL player last year, and played only 2 games. He washed out of a very good organization in London and had success (as an overager) on a terrible Firebirds team. Maybe I'll be wrong, and he's got time to prove it. So we'll see.

 

[WannabeFinn]

To be completely transparent, I was never high on Sherwood anyway. It was a cool story for him to come to development camp and all that, but I was a tad annoyed when we signed him to an ELC just based off of a development camp and the fact he was a local. There was a reason why he was undrafted. But no harm no foul, it wans't like we gave up anything to do it.

Anyway, Sherwood was supposed to be an AHL player last year, and played only 2 games. He washed out of a very good organization in London and had success (as an overager) on a terrible Firebirds team. Maybe I'll be wrong, and he's got time to prove it. So we'll see.

Washed out?? He was playing bottom 6 in London behind guys like Marner, Tkachuk, Dvorak, Max Jones, Cliff Pu, etc.

He was traded for a pretty fair haul to Flint, where he torched the league on an awful team. Then he goes to Kitchener and absolutely rolls the competition in the playoffs with Logan Brown and Mascherin. 14 goals in 19 games.

He's got NHL size, he's produced at a high level thus far. I don't see any reason to be down on the kid.

 

[Jackets16]

Washed out?? He was playing bottom 6 in London behind guys like Marner, Tkachuk, Dvorak, Max Jones, Cliff Pu, etc.

He was traded for a pretty fair haul to Flint, where he torched the league on an awful team. Then he goes to Kitchener and absolutely rolls the competition in the playoffs with Logan Brown and Mascherin. 14 goals in 19 games.

He's got NHL size, he's produced at a high level thus far. I don't see any reason to be down on the kid.

It is becoming clear that CBJWennberg10 hates just about everything CBJ. The only posts he seems to make are ones complaining about a player or something management does.

 

[CBJx614]

It is becoming clear that CBJWennberg10 hates just about everything CBJ. The only posts he seems to make are ones complaining about a player or something management does.

Hate is a strong word. I'd say for eternal pessimist.

And when you look at Ohio sports, it's hard to be anything but.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

Washed out?? He was playing bottom 6 in London behind guys like Marner, Tkachuk, Dvorak, Max Jones, Cliff Pu, etc.

He was traded for a pretty fair haul to Flint, where he torched the league on an awful team. Then he goes to Kitchener and absolutely rolls the competition in the playoffs with Logan Brown and Mascherin. 14 goals in 19 games.

He's got NHL size, he's produced at a high level thus far. I don't see any reason to be down on the kid.

Fair points. I just don't personally see it working out for him at the NHL level. He's 21 (i think, or 22), he's got time.

It is becoming clear that CBJWennberg10 hates just about everything CBJ. The only posts he seems to make are ones complaining about a player or something management does.

You couldn't be more wrong, but okay. I don't see any complaints on any player or management at all in this thread. And in the ones where I do complain I feel my complaints have merit. If you feel differently, then quote it, and we can talk about it. Other than that, your post is just bitching to bitch.

Hate is a strong word. I'd say for eternal pessimist.

And when you look at Ohio sports, it's hard to be anything but.

I am a self described realist with a leniency for pessimism.

 

[Monk]

I am a self described realist with a leniency for pessimism.

That's pretty optimistic of you...

 

[Viqsi]

I am a self described realist with a leniency for pessimism.

"Realist" is the term pessimists use when they try to claim they're not actually pessimists.

 

[EspenK]

"Realist" is the term pessimists use when they try to claim they're not actually pessimists.

17 seasons
3 playoff appearances
0 playoff series wins
Numerous 1st round draft busts (Zherdev, Picard,Brule, Filatov, Rychel, Dano, Carlsson(?)
No sure fire NHLers in the prospect pool (as recognized by others not fanboys/fan girls)
The first true star player not yet willing to negotiate a long term deal

Realism or pessimism?

 

[Viqsi]

17 seasons
3 playoff appearances
0 playoff series wins
Numerous 1st round draft busts (Zherdev, Picard,Brule, Filatov, Rychel, Dano, Carlsson(?)
No sure fire NHLers in the prospect pool (as recognized by others not fanboys/fan girls)
The first true star player not yet willing to negotiate a long term deal

Realism or pessimism?

Pessimism - because you're focusing almost exclusively on the negatives.

 

[stevo61]

Lets talk about negatives in our 1st season with a different team and management, to compare now. Realism eh? Lets not talk about our Norris level D, another D that netted 16 goals on am offensively challenged team while having a bum shoulder. Lets not talk about our 19 year old center that gone thrown into the fire and came out looking great and rarely out of place or how about our multi Vezina winning goaltender... Yeah lets talk about some draft pick 10 years ago that busted and hold the current team accountable.
Team has pros and cons just like any other. Didnt luck into any generational centers but whatever, the team is having its 1st bit of sustained success and people bitch more now then when the team sucked. Never happy and its sad/hilarious

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

"Realist" is the term pessimists use when they try to claim they're not actually pessimists.

Beaten to it!

 

[Viqsi]

Lets talk about negatives in our 1st season with a different team and management, to compare now. [...] Yeah lets talk about some draft pick 10 years ago that busted and hold the current team accountable.

The fun thing is, if you pay attention to other teams, you'll notice this sort of silliness goes both ways. For example - the Habs fans who insist everything will work out in their favor because they've won the Cup 24 times.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

"Realist" is the term pessimists use when they try to claim they're not actually pessimists.

You're starting to sound like my father.

 

[Viqsi]

You're starting to sound like my father.

Hmm. Maybe he was trying to teach you something important.

 

[thebus88]

Didnt luck into any generational centers but whatever, the team is having its 1st bit of sustained success and people ***** more now then when the team sucked. Never happy and its sad/hilarious

This 100%. I've mentioned this type of comment/opinion in the past. The CBJ team the past 2-3 years (and going into this year WITH Panarin) is without question BY FAR the best teams the CBJ have ever had. You could say the ONLY time they've been actually GOOD. The playoff teams in 08/09 and 13/14 were legit "bubble teams", not bad but also not good. The team NOW is GOOD. Just because you finish the season in 1 off the last playoff spots does not make you a "bubble team".

It seems like the people who claim to "not want to embrace mediocrity" as a whole, seem to have enjoyed themselves a bit better when they didn't have to continually make a case WHY the current team isn't something to be "proud" or "excited" about. Not only that, but it seems people were much more optimistic and positive with teams in the past that were clearly in MUCH WORSE shape then where they are at now, with or without Dubinsky and with no "blue chip" prospects like in the past.

I think there is still a great deal of "residue" left over from the 15/16 season, even though the "cancer" has been removed.

 

[thebus88]

And to add something relevant to the "prospect" or "scouting department" discussion.

We have 1 of the top 3-5 youngest teams in the NHL. Was ranked 1 or 2 the last couple years or so. Our AHL team won the championship 2-3 years ago. We've added AT LEAST 1-2 (legitimate/deserving) draft picks to the roster each year since all the way back to 2011, with the only exception being 2014 with Milano and Elvis being still around. The "recent" draft picks while (most) not super high, have been good. Mainly "hits" or about what you could hope for. Carlsson seems like the only for sure mistake that was drafted "early". Werenski is what he is, was a good pick, and is "hyped" accordingly.

Although, it still seems like its split 50/50 when it comes to people's opinion on Dubios. Honestly, I think how good Dubois is NOW, and WHAT he COULD become are still seriously downplayed by many people. The truth is that he was a 3rd overall pick that SHOULD have been drafted 3rd overall. And while (especially) Panarin and Atkinson are good linemates and Panarin definitely "drove" the line, Dubois was not "carried" in any way. This is a guy who WAS (at WORST) an "average 1st line center"....at 19. Sure, he'd be better (last yr/right now) playing a 2c role and minutes, but the fact is he was perfectly FINE as the "1c" on a playoff team. Somebody please list the guys the last 5-6 years who have come in at 20 or under and played at an above average "2c" or "1c" level.

In hindsight the Nutivaara, Gavrikov, and Davidsson picks are all quite great also.​

Going all the way back to the Korpisalo (2012) and Elvis (2014) picks and into the last couple years, as has been brought up, I think we've made some very good/sneaky/late picks on both Euro players/goalies and goalies in general. We very well may have the best goalie "pipeline" in the entire league. We might not have the hype behind a "name" or 1st/2nd round pick, but we have 2+ guys who might be or become better than whoever the hypothetical "top goalie prospect" might be.

 

[spintheblackcircle]

17 seasons
3 playoff appearances
0 playoff series wins
Numerous 1st round draft busts (Zherdev, Picard,Brule, Filatov, Rychel, Dano, Carlsson(?)
No sure fire NHLers in the prospect pool (as recognized by others not fanboys/fan girls)
The first true star player not yet willing to negotiate a long term deal

Realism or pessimism?

Perhaps they were just waiting to be legal.

 

[thebus88]

Numerous 1st round draft busts (Zherdev, Picard,Brule, Filatov, Rychel, Dano, Carlsson(?)
No sure fire NHLers in the prospect pool (as recognized by others not fanboys/fan girls)

How many other "1st round draft busts" do you think are around the league? Or I should say NOT around.

And how many of these "1st round draft busts" were considered "sure fire NHLers"?

What was the consensus (or YOUR) opinion on Carlsson, literally JUST 1 year ago, after he came over and was "gifted" minutes in the playoffs?

And what was the consensus (or YOUR) opinion on Nutivaara when it was announced he was coming over, or made the team.

Just 1 year ago MANY people thought: Carlsson > Nutivaara. Now, its hard to find 1 person to express this opinion. What has changed? Reality or perception?

Can you see now how its a little ridiculous to consider prospects (whether 1st rd or not) "sure fire NHLers" or NOT "sure fire NHLers"? Or to "attack" the scouting/front office for making a "bad" pick (Foudy), a day after making it, or claiming they didn't do or try something that they very well might have tried.

Gavrikov is a "sure fire" NHLer. What about Swedish JD? Or does he NOW not count because he "graduated"? Its easy to say that the team has no "sure fire NHLer" prospects or "NHL quality" prospects, and then completely ignore the numerous amount of guys the last 1-3 years that HAVE become NHLers.

Sorry bout being a "fanboy".

 

[MoeBartoli]

"Realist" is the term pessimists use when they try to claim they're not actually pessimists.

Or it could be "realists" sound more like optimists if they're a Vegas fan.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

Just because you finish the season in 1 off the last playoff spots does not make you a "bubble team".

We made the playoffs by one point. That's a bubble team.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Just because you finish the season in 1 off the last playoff spots does not make you a "bubble team".

This holds if there's a wide gap between the teams qualifying for the playoffs and those who don't. That was not the case this past season. I'd say the Jackets were the definition of a "bubble team."

But that's pretty damned off-topic in this thread, so...

 

[Monk]

This holds if there's a wide gap between the teams qualifying for the playoffs and those who don't. That was not the case this past season. I'd say the Jackets were the definition of a "bubble team."

But that's pretty damned off-topic in this thread, so...

Well, arguably it holds as well if the gap between the teams ahead of the Jackets is small. Which it was.

Also, let me now take a moment to comment on a player I've never seen live and watched one highlight video of. Or maybe I'll make a top-20 list!

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Well, arguably it holds as well if the gap between the teams ahead of the Jackets is small. Which it was.

Also, let me now take a moment to comment on a player I've never seen live and watched one highlight video of. Or maybe I'll make a top-20 list!

Were the Jackets not assured of a postseason berth until very late in the regular season? Then I;d say they were a bubble team. Just my opinion. Back to prospecting.

 

[Theo Von]

Boy... reading thru this thread that I created 3 years ago about our prospects is... interesting lol.

https://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/columbus-blue-jackets-prospects.1854131/