Confirmed with Link: [CBJ/ANA] Milano traded for Devin Shore

[blahblah]

We will probably never know, even if he does well in Anaheim. Being traded was probably the first time in Sonny's hockey career someone told him he wasn't good enough to be on a team.

If he does well, the franchise failed. Doesn't matter if this was a "wake up call". If a player leaves and improves, you always look what you could have done better as a franchise. I think Milano, from what I've seen, fits into the "I just want to be valued" camp - at least partially. If that is remotely accurate, I'm not sure Torts is patient enough for that kind of hand holding.

It's responsibility of the franchise is to get the most out of the players.

Now there can be other influences. In other words, things like off-ice issues/personalities, etc. But those tend to be more understandable and excusable if the player is already producing.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

If he does well, the franchise failed.

Agreed. But more thoughts below...

It's responsibility of the franchise is to get the most out of the players.

Agreed here also. And I've said that I believe JD and Jarmo hired Torts to hope to accomplish this in a particular way, by providing a template, largely fixed, to young, skilled players, for how to play the game with consistent effort, a sense of fundamentals and professionalism.

There's a fair discussion as to whether it's been successful and of course, different people have different thresholds and definitions.

 

[cbjgirl]

The situation with Milano reminds me a bit of Voracek. I still think that Jake doesn't become the player he became without the influence of Jagr for a few years. I don't think Milano would reach his potential here either. It remains to be seen whether he is capable of doing it in Anaheim. Even if he does, that doesn't mean it was a "Tort's Problem", it could mean that he matured past being the idiot who beats up a guy in an apartment over a bar bill into an actual hard-working, focused adult.

 

[Monstershockey]

The situation with Milano reminds me a bit of Voracek. I still think that Jake doesn't become the player he became without the influence of Jagr for a few years. I don't think Milano would reach his potential here either. It remains to be seen whether he is capable of doing it in Anaheim. Even if he does, that doesn't mean it was a "Tort's Problem", it could mean that he matured past being the idiot who beats up a guy in an apartment over a bar bill into an actual hard-working, focused adult.

Good point with the apartment fight. You have a guy who allegedly has all this talent, marginally improves each year, going into a pretty much make or break year here, and he is out doing stupid things like that. Then he comes in this season, and his overall improvement is, once again, marginal. You can say the franchise failed if he goes on to be better, but he was given every opportunity here, and he failed the franchise with his lack of overall improvement.

 

[KCbus]

If he does well, the franchise failed. Doesn't matter if this was a "wake up call". If a player leaves and improves, you always look what you could have done better as a franchise. I think Milano, from what I've seen, fits into the "I just want to be valued" camp - at least partially. If that is remotely accurate, I'm not sure Torts is patient enough for that kind of hand holding.

It's responsibility of the franchise is to get the most out of the players.

Funny. I always thought it was the responsibility of the franchise to make a good team and try to win games.

Sometimes, players and teams don't fit each other. Styles, personalities, method of play -- if a player is traded and has more success elsewhere, it isn't automatically a "failure" of the first team. It can be, but not necessarily.

 

[cslebn]

If he does well, the franchise failed. Doesn't matter if this was a "wake up call". If a player leaves and improves, you always look what you could have done better as a franchise. I think Milano, from what I've seen, fits into the "I just want to be valued" camp - at least partially. If that is remotely accurate, I'm not sure Torts is patient enough for that kind of hand holding.

It's responsibility of the franchise is to get the most out of the players.

Now there can be other influences. In other words, things like off-ice issues/personalities, etc. But those tend to be more understandable and excusable if the player is already producing.

Some people need a wake up call or a kick in the pants. Trades do that in ways not much else can. What should the franchise do to replicate that?

 

[EDM]

What I focus upon is that Shore is not much of anything other than a body to plug into the current lineup which is bleeding with injuries.I see no long term value in Dinah Shore.

 

[blahblah]

Funny. I always thought it was the responsibility of the franchise to make a good team and try to win games..

Last I checked, none of this was mutually exclusive. I tend to think that we would all agree that getting the most out of the players gives a much higher probability to the goals you listed.

I was speaking more about the player evaluation and development obviously.

The last sentence of yours I'm pretty sure I tried to cover all of these type of arguments in my post (unless I edited it out), so I'm not going to bother commenting (or even fully reading). I got the gist in the first few words.

 

[blahblah]

Some people need a wake up call or a kick in the pants. Trades do that in ways not much else can. What should the franchise do to replicate that?

As I said if your idea of a "wake up call" is to trade a player, you've failed. That isn't a wake up call, that is giving up on the player. Now just because you have failed, that doesn't mean that the opposite party is blameless or even excused.

As a franchise you are going to fail with players. As I was trying to illustrate, you must learn from your failures (I'm not persuaded that we learn much from our failures).. In this case we haven't even established the CBJ failed at anything.

 

[cslebn]

As I said if your idea of a "wake up call" is to trade a player, you've failed. That isn't a wake up call, that is giving up on the player. Now just because you have failed, that doesn't mean that the opposite party is blameless or even excused.

As a franchise you are going to fail with players. As I was trying to illustrate, you must learn from your failures (I'm not persuaded that we learn much from our failures).. In this case we haven't even established the CBJ failed at anything.

Sorry, my question was how do you prevent failure but get the same kick to get through to a guy without a trade?

Some people don't get mature, perform, or what have you without some sort of kick (not limited to hockey by any means).

 

[Jyrki]

Some players just need a kick in the butt to get going. Players like Duclair, Grabner, McCann, Connolly, etc. bounced around until they finally hit their stride.

 

[blahblah]

Sorry, my question was how do you prevent failure but get the same kick to get through to a guy without a trade?

Strangely odd question. For one thing the question seems to already come to the conclusion that "the" problem is the player. Frequently there are many problems and plenty of blame to go around. In many cases it can simply be communication.

First thing anyone should do is identify a problem and start looking for root cause.

 

[Fireball23]

Milano .. along with the rest of the Ducks couldn't break the NJD and were shut out. .. a team with better D.. shut them down .. yep..

 

[KJ Dangler]

Milano with another assist last night , 2g 2a , in 4 games

 

[Fireball23]

A secondary against Chicago and in a loss 6-2

 

[Monstershockey]

Milano with another assist last night , 2g 2a , in 4 games

Also a -2. On the ice for 3 goals against. Even strength, Anaheim has been outscored when he is on the ice. Plus he had a tripping penalty the other night which led to a goal against. Nice try.

 

[JacketsDavid]

Also a -2. On the ice for 3 goals against. Even strength, Anaheim has been outscored when he is on the ice. Plus he had a tripping penalty the other night which led to a goal against. Nice try.

But this Shore guy is on fire: 3 games, 1 assist, -3 overall, all of that with averaging just over 10 minutes/game.
We won for sure, soon we will plan a parade route and build a state for Devin Shore outside the arena...

 

[Monstershockey]

But this Shore guy is on fire: 3 games, 1 assist, -3 overall, all of that with averaging just over 10 minutes/game.
We won for sure, soon we will plan a parade route and build a state for Devin Shore outside the arena...

Not saying Shore is any good. Obviously we couldn't get anything better for Milano or they would have. I doubt anyone was banging on the door to offer us better for him.

 

[KJ Dangler]

Milano with another assist last night , 5 points in 7 games .

 

[Fireball23]

Milano with another assist last night , 5 points in 7 games .

He's getting top line minutes too..big zero when they got shut out too. ..

Verse the 7 until Shore gets used to the system. He was playing PK took last night.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

Yeah I'm willing to call this one a dud already. Shore brings nothing special at all. While Milano wasn't special either, he at least had potential to do something.

 

[MoeBartoli]

5 points in 7 games at a plus/minus @ -1 and folks want to poke holes in the numbers. It’s equal scoring to the Jackets leaders (at 5 puts) over the last 7 games and some in that group have worse +/- numbers. It’s funny how the +/- has strong weighting When looking at some guys but not others. Illustration: Mr All-world defensive center Wennberg 0 puts in last 5 games and a +/- at -5.....I’m not making the case Milano is a good defensive player, but I tend to believe he will put up decent offensive numbers and will look forward to continued reading why his goals and assists seem worth Canadian dollars compared to US Dollars.

 

[DarkandStormy]

5 points in 7 games at a plus/minus @ -1 and folks want to poke holes in the numbers. It’s equal scoring to the Jackets leaders (at 5 puts) over the last 7 games and some in that group have worse +/- numbers. It’s funny how the +/- has strong weighting When looking at some guys but not others. Illustration: Mr All-world defensive center Wennberg 0 puts in last 5 games and a +/- at -5.....I’m not making the case Milano is a good defensive player, but I tend to believe he will put up decent offensive numbers and will look forward to continued reading why his goals and assists seem worth Canadian dollars compared to US Dollars.

+/- is a useless stat and needs to be banned from all citations.

 

[Cowumbus]

Shore is gone this summer no?

 

[DarkandStormy]

Shore is gone this summer no?

Certainly doesn't seem worth his QO. Maybe Jarmo says, "Hey, here's two years at (guessing) $1.75m per. Take it or leave it."