CBC.ca: Why Leafs feel need to sign Phaneuf

[Jtabo]

Seems like you weren't watching the game, considering you just threw out stats and nothing else.
I really like Dion, but he had a terrible game last night. He turned it over and over and caused a lot of grief in our own zone.

Your confusing Dion with Franson. Dion was a rock last night. The only defenceman who really played D last night. Take your hater shades off and watch him without the biased view next time.

 

[NoTouchIcing]

Your confusing Dion with Franson. Dion was a rock last night. The only defenceman who really played D last night. Take your hater shades off and watch him without the biased view next time.

Tough luck, as I'm the biggest Phaneuf supporter out there. He just didn't play well last night, period. Franson was brutal too, as was just about every defenseman save Jake Gardiner. It really has no bearing on why he SHOULD re-sign him for a long time, but it needed to be called out.

 

[Silver91]

Suter went UFA in 2012?

"one of" ... meaning one of the top, not the top

 

[Jtabo]

Tough luck, as I'm the biggest Phaneuf supporter out there. He just didn't play well last night, period. Franson was brutal too, as was just about every defenseman save Jake Gardiner. It really has no bearing on why he SHOULD re-sign him for a long time, but it needed to be called out.

Now I know you for sure didn't watch the game. Gardiner our best D last night....LOL.

 

[ULF_55]

What game were you watching? He had 2 assists, and was +2.

The Oilers didn't do much damage to the Leafs when Phaneuf was on the ice, despite him playing the bulk of his shifts against Hall's line.

Most of the breakdowns happened while the 2nd and 3rd pairs were on the ice. Dion was on for just one goal against, and that was on a 5-on-3.

Same with Gunnarsson.

The fact it is Phaneuf and Gunnarsson the 5-3 tells you how Carlyle feels about that pairing.

They shouldn't pretend that Phaneuf isn't going to get older, slower and less mobile, but yes they have to re-sign him or trade him.

He has to be moveable if they give him max term.

 

[Mystifo]

Tough luck, as I'm the biggest Phaneuf supporter out there. He just didn't play well last night, period. Franson was brutal too, as was just about every defenseman save Jake Gardiner. It really has no bearing on why he SHOULD re-sign him for a long time, but it needed to be called out.

Did you watch the game? Because I can recall Paul Ranger having a solid outing last night.


Also I don't know if I would call Dion Brutal last night I mean Franson was getting caught more than Dion.

 

[Sundinisagod]

I'm all for giving him a slight raise, more or less as a show or respect towards your captain, but I am against a long term as I do feel he will slow down a lot by his mid 30's, he won't suck by then but could easily be playing on the 2nd maybe even 3rd paring by then.


7m x 5 years would be the type of deal Nonis should be seeking imho. Not so sure Phaneuf settles for 5 years though.

 

[bunjay]

Your confusing Dion with Franson. Dion was a rock last night. The only defenceman who really played D last night. Take your hater shades off and watch him without the biased view next time.

Gunnarsson and Ranger made fewer mistakes than Phaneuf. Reilly aside from that bizarre play where he backed into the corner and gave up the slot to RNH on the fifth goal was also sound.

 

[Gallagbi]

Gunnarsson and Ranger made fewer mistakes than Phaneuf. Reilly aside from that bizarre play where he backed into the corner and gave up the slot to RNH on the fifth goal was also sound.

Gunnar was awful last night, always a step behind the play, put his partner in bad spots, mishandled pucks and had a lot of trouble identifying where he needed to be. He didn't make any glaring "last man back overskate the puck" type of errors, but he was certainly off.

 

[bunjay]

Gunnar was awful last night, always a step behind the play, put his partner in bad spots, mishandled pucks and had a lot of trouble identifying where he needed to be. He didn't make any glaring "last man back overskate the puck" type of errors, but he was certainly off.

Yeah I don't think we were watching the same game. He had no turnovers. He didnt get beaten once 1-on-1. He singlehandedly saved goals on the PK. He made zero bad pinches. He iced the puck zero times. "Awful."

 

[NoTouchIcing]

Did you watch the game? Because I can recall Paul Ranger having a solid outing last night.


Also I don't know if I would call Dion Brutal last night I mean Franson was getting caught more than Dion.

So? That's irrelevant. Just because one defenseman was brutal, nonetheless one that is on a different pairing was brutal, doesn't mean the other wasn't. There is a reason we let up 5 goals last night...

The bottom line is that we DO need Dion, and we need to lock him up until someone else proves they can play and shutdown top lines consistently.

 

[Gallagbi]

Yeah I don't think we were watching the same game. He had no turnovers. He didnt get beaten once 1-on-1. He singlehandedly saved goals on the PK. He made zero bad pinches. He iced the puck zero times. "Awful."

Sometimes you catch some breaks when you're bad. He threw pucks to teammates under pressure and in a bad spots often instead of turning it over himself. That great PK play was due to his own poor positioning. If he's in the proper spot it's a nothing play. He misplayed a 2-on-1 leading to the Hall breakaway.

He was off last night, but didn't have to pay much for it because Phaneuf and Bernier were able to bail him out.

 

[Mystifo]

So? That's irrelevant. Just because one defenseman was brutal, nonetheless one that is on a different pairing was brutal, doesn't mean the other wasn't. There is a reason we let up 5 goals last night...

The bottom line is that we DO need Dion, and we need to lock him up until someone else proves they can play and shutdown top lines consistently.

Yeah there is a reason and it is nor Dion nor Franson nor who ever fault as it was a teams poor effort in general.



Also I am not saying we DO NOT need Dion as quite frankly I want him resigned at a reasonable rate.

 

[Razz]

We need to lock Phaneuf in for 8 years to get our cap hit as low as possible. Some of you forget Phaneuf will be exiting his prime years at the end of the deal so we will scale his salary down helping the team short term on cap hit. Anything less than 8 years would be a disaster for us.

The rest of our core is locked up and the team is ready to become a contender. We need to score some long term cap savings otherwise we won't stay competitive due to the lack of cap space.

If we can get Phaneuf for 6.5x8, we are in great shape. 6 and I'll be doing backflips

 

[bunjay]

Sometimes you catch some breaks when you're bad. He threw pucks to teammates under pressure and in a bad spots often instead of turning it over himself. That great PK play was due to his own poor positioning. If he's in the proper spot it's a nothing play. He misplayed a 2-on-1 leading to the Hall breakaway.

He was off last night, but didn't have to pay much for it because Phaneuf and Bernier were able to bail him out.

He didn't make that play because of bad positioning. It was a 2-on-1 down low and he was the only guy there, how is that a positional mistake? Same thing happened on the play where he went down to block the pass. He bailed out his partner there, which was probably Phaneuf both times but I'm not sure. They mostly play the first PK shift together.

You seem to be getting things backward. Gunnarsson bailed Phaneuf out on his turnovers more than vice-versa.

 

[4evaBlue]

6 years, 7 million each year
or
8 years, 6 million each year

he'll be 29 hitting free agency. players are beyond their prime by 35. Phaneuf has an excellent 6 years ahead of him, but his play will worsen beyond that. So if he wants the full 8 years, then he'll have to take a pay cut.

6 years at $6M
or
8 years at $5.5M

Both with a slight hometown sidcount and he keeps the C. If Dion wants to be a nice guy, he'll shave off another half a mill on top of that and he'll be a hometown hero (to retire in Leafs uniform, none of this Gilmour/Clark/Sundin BS) for taking an 8yr $5M deal.

Cap Hit Comparibles

Name​

|

Age​

|

Team​

|

Length​

|

Start​

|

Expiry​

|

Salary​

|

Cap Hit​

|

Cap Pct​

|

Delta​

Karlsson, Erik| 23 |OTT|7|2012| 2019 |$5,500,000| $6,500,000 |9.26%|$0
Pietrangelo, Alex| 23 |STL|7|2013| 2020 |$5,000,000| $6,500,000 |10.11%|$0
Phaneuf, Dion|28|TOR|6|2008|2014|$5,500,000|$6,500,000|11.46%|$0
Boyle, Dan|37|SJS|6|2008|2014|$6,666,666|$6,666,667|11.76%|$166,667
Bouwmeester, Jay|30|STL|5|2009|2014|$6,600,000|$6,680,000|11.76%|$180,000
Green, Mike|28|WAS|3|2012|2015|$6,000,000|$6,083,333|8.67%|$416,667
Chara, Zdeno|36|BOS|7|2011|2018|$8,000,000|$6,916,667|10.76%|$416,667
Doughty, Drew|23|LAK|8|2011|2019|$6,700,000|$7,000,000|10.89%|$500,000
Timonen, Kimmo|38|PHI|1|2013|2014|$6,000,000|$6,000,000|9.33%|$500,000
Campbell, Brian|34|FLA|8|2008|2016|$7,142,875|$7,142,875|12.60%|$642,875
Seabrook, Brent|28|CHI|5|2011|2016|$5,000,000|$5,800,000|9.02%|$700,000
Markov, Andrei|34|MTL|3|2011|2014|$5,750,000|$5,750,000|8.94%|$750,000
Enstrom, Tobias|28|WPG|5|2013|2018|$5,750,000|$5,750,000|8.94%|$750,000
Keith, Duncan|30|CHI|13|2010|2023|$7,650,000|$5,538,462|9.32%|$961,538
Carle, Matt|29|TBL|6|2012|2018|$5,750,000|$5,500,000|7.83%|$1,000,000
Wisniewski, James|29|CLB|6|2011|2017|$6,000,000|$5,500,000|8.55%|$1,000,000
E.-Larsson, O.|22|PHX|6|2013|2019|$3,500,000|$5,500,000|8.55%|$1,000,000
Myers, Tyler|23|BUF|7|2012|2019|$6,000,000|$5,500,000|7.83%|$1,000,000
Suter, Ryan|28|MIN|13|2012|2025|$12,000,000|$7,538,462|10.74%|$1,038,462
Yandle, Keith|27|PHX|5|2011|2016|$5,250,000|$5,250,000|8.16%|$1,250,000
Wideman, Dennis|30|CGY|5|2012|2017|$5,000,000|$5,250,000|7.48%|$1,250,000

Courtesy of: CapGeek​

 

[Lisa Needs Braces]

People still think he gets less than his current deal? Please, get with the times. He's getting over 7. Only way its under 7 is if he gets something like 8 years at 55 mil which would be just under 7 but he gets long term.

One of the reasons he was traded to us in the first place was that he was overpaid. In many ways, this might work in our favour. The guy has already made a ton of money in the NHL (not to mention the sponsorships he's getting now that he's leaf captain). Therefore, he is more likely to take a discount if he wants to stay in Toronto.

I still say 6x6 is fair. He's a bit overpaid at 6.5 right now. He's got to know that in order for the team to stay competitive, we cant give him much more that a continuation of that 6.5 mil/year cap hit.

6x6 and he probably pulls in an extra million in endorsements. Everybody wins.


If management does want to go for 8 years, which as I said above, I think that one will be a mistake and he will be difficult to trade down the road if we need to, but heres what I'd like to see

8 years - 44 million ~ 5.5 mill cap hit

7 -7- 6- 6- 5- 5- 4- 4-

Puts his contract in line with most of the other elite defensemen. We get a discount on caphit. Dion gets paid until 37 and very likely retires a leaf. Wins all around.

 

[ponder]

6 years, 7 mil per year, somewhat front loaded. I'd be perfectly happy with a deal like that.

 

[Durrr]

Tough luck, as I'm the biggest Phaneuf supporter out there. He just didn't play well last night, period. Franson was brutal too, as was just about every defenseman save Jake Gardiner. It really has no bearing on why he SHOULD re-sign him for a long time, but it needed to be called out.

That's all well and good, doesn't change the fact that you're wrong though

 

[Durrr]

6 years at $6M
or
8 years at $5.5M

Both with a slight hometown sidcount and he keeps the C. If Dion wants to be a nice guy, he'll shave off another half a mill on top of that and he'll be a hometown hero (to retire in Leafs uniform, none of this Gilmour/Clark/Sundin BS) for taking an 8yr $5M deal.

Cap Hit Comparibles

Name​

|

Age​

|

Team​

|

Length​

|

Start​

|

Expiry​

|

Salary​

|

Cap Hit​

|

Cap Pct​

|

Delta​

Karlsson, Erik| 23 |OTT|7|2012| 2019 |$5,500,000| $6,500,000 |9.26%|$0
Pietrangelo, Alex| 23 |STL|7|2013| 2020 |$5,000,000| $6,500,000 |10.11%|$0
Phaneuf, Dion|28|TOR|6|2008|2014|$5,500,000|$6,500,000|11.46%|$0
Boyle, Dan|37|SJS|6|2008|2014|$6,666,666|$6,666,667|11.76%|$166,667
Bouwmeester, Jay|30|STL|5|2009|2014|$6,600,000|$6,680,000|11.76%|$180,000
Green, Mike|28|WAS|3|2012|2015|$6,000,000|$6,083,333|8.67%|$416,667
Chara, Zdeno|36|BOS|7|2011|2018|$8,000,000|$6,916,667|10.76%|$416,667
Doughty, Drew|23|LAK|8|2011|2019|$6,700,000|$7,000,000|10.89%|$500,000
Timonen, Kimmo|38|PHI|1|2013|2014|$6,000,000|$6,000,000|9.33%|$500,000
Campbell, Brian|34|FLA|8|2008|2016|$7,142,875|$7,142,875|12.60%|$642,875
Seabrook, Brent|28|CHI|5|2011|2016|$5,000,000|$5,800,000|9.02%|$700,000
Markov, Andrei|34|MTL|3|2011|2014|$5,750,000|$5,750,000|8.94%|$750,000
Enstrom, Tobias|28|WPG|5|2013|2018|$5,750,000|$5,750,000|8.94%|$750,000
Keith, Duncan|30|CHI|13|2010|2023|$7,650,000|$5,538,462|9.32%|$961,538
Carle, Matt|29|TBL|6|2012|2018|$5,750,000|$5,500,000|7.83%|$1,000,000
Wisniewski, James|29|CLB|6|2011|2017|$6,000,000|$5,500,000|8.55%|$1,000,000
E.-Larsson, O.|22|PHX|6|2013|2019|$3,500,000|$5,500,000|8.55%|$1,000,000
Myers, Tyler|23|BUF|7|2012|2019|$6,000,000|$5,500,000|7.83%|$1,000,000
Suter, Ryan|28|MIN|13|2012|2025|$12,000,000|$7,538,462|10.74%|$1,038,462
Yandle, Keith|27|PHX|5|2011|2016|$5,250,000|$5,250,000|8.16%|$1,250,000
Wideman, Dennis|30|CGY|5|2012|2017|$5,000,000|$5,250,000|7.48%|$1,250,000

Courtesy of: CapGeek​

Some of these contracts circumvent the cap... Pretty sure media has already stated that he wont take anything under 6.5

 

[zeke]

you guys are missing contract extensions that start next year, when Phaneuf's would start.

Here's the top caphits next year:

1. Weber $7.9 x 12yrs (UFA deal)
2. Suter $7.5 x 11yrs (UFA deal)
3. Letang $7.3 x 8yrs (UFA deal)
4. Campbell $7.2 x 2yrs (UFA deal)
5. Doughty $7.0 x 5yrs (RFA deal)
6. Chara $6.9 x 4yrs (UFA deal)
7. Karlsson $6.5 x 5yrs (RFA deal)
8. Pietrangelo $6.5 x 6yrs (RFA deal)
9. Green $6.1 x 1yrs (RFA deal)
10. Seabrook $5.8 x 2yrs (RFA deal)

Unsigned: P.K. Subban


Phaneuf's deal is going to be a lot closer to those UFA deals than those RFA deals.

 

[Larry Hoover]

Phil might not even be our best forward, let alone best player.

There's only one leaf who's our go-to guy in both the toughest offensive situations, and the toughest defensive situations, and that's the Captain, our best player.

To argue Phaneuf is more valuable is fair. To argue Kessel is not our best forward is beyond idiotic. I would love to hear your argument. I can't even guess what your argument would be? Lupul has put up a similar PPG in a significantly smaller sample size while being more physical?

 

[cyris]

Because he took over the radio when he arrived.

Yes clearly that is the only reason. No one on the team knew how the volume knob worked before.

 

[4evaBlue]

Phaneuf's deal is going to be a lot closer to those UFA deals than those RFA deals.

Assuming he doesn't take a hometown discount. There is no doubt that he'd get $6.5M offer with term on the open market, the question is, where does he want to be when he's 35 and on the decline. Testing the UFA market or well...

We've slightly overpaid for him for his current contract and if he takes a paycut for the 8 yr term because he wants to lead this team to the promise land, he could end up solidifying his "legacy". Especially if the cap space gained by that contract may allow the team to upgrade a position of need.

It'd go a lot easier for Dion, too w/ the media, as there are a lot more things expected of a $6.5M defensemen (even if he's 37 at the time) than there are of a $5.5M defensemen.

 

[New Liskeard]

As been mentioned, a no brainer to sign Phaneuf, and it seems both sides want a deal doen. I hope it comes together. Quite amazing really, when and if Phaneuf signs long term. the ammount of long term contracts and core players on the team vs 3-4 years ago. This team has had a huge transition and has set themsleves up for long term future success. Brian Burke may have been the best thing to happen to this team in a very very long time.