Player Discussion Casey Mittelstadt (2017, 8th) #37 - Part III

[SnuggaRUDE]

I am coupling him with a defenseman for a genuine 2C this deadline of offseason.

Nylander 2.0

Who do you think is available for that?

 

[Royal Thunder]

Many times I saw a goal against replay with Casey coasting through watching, when a half second earlier he could have started pumping his legs and got himself involved. He wasn't even engaged. Legs straight coasting instead bent into an engaged and ready to react core. Its a mentality and focus. Its the difference between losing and getting beaten....do you know the difference?

Fair enough, maybe I am overselling it a bit. I do remember him often being the hardest back checker on the team... but that is probably because it was usually him turning it over.

 

[Bendium]

Reinhart in his first two-three years took criticism for floating, not hitting, not driving play.

There is truth in that there was this criticism especially at the start, but the response was very different. Sam had more genuine hockey skills vs Casey's trick shot skills. Sam was in over his head, but you could see slow and steady improvement from him as he worked and figured it out piece by piece. He put up 42 points in 79 games in his first full NHL season at 19 turning 20 years. Casey put up 25 in 77 during his first full NHL season at 19 turning 20 years. In his second year, instead of continuing to improve like Sam did, he slowly got worse not better, seemingly resolved to the situation, putting up worse numbers at 9pts in 31 games, he had more or less quit and got sent to the AHL. Not really at all how Sam responded.

 

[dasaybz]

syear

The thing that makes me netvous about that and Casey in general. He stays in highschool his draft year despite being a high first round prospect, and forgoing taking on the much more serious challenge of the USHL, and he didn't win State like a man on a mission. But hey, he is having fun with his friends for the last time... Ok

But then year two, he gets to the U and is clearly not a new man after being embarrassed, one would think at the combine, still relies on skill over effort and skill, and clearly doesn't have special athleticism at the college level. But hey the team isn't great and he is having fun in college and he is home... But ok, with pro talent, he had some flashy games with a pro physique in Tkachuk, and he scored a couple times in his call up... This summer he will take training seriously.

D+2, Mitts has to know he is either on the nhl team or getting a great shot. He has two full months from the O'Reilly trade till camp to put himself thru a hellacious training regimen to get ready. The season happens.,.

Okay, botts screwed him as management, but holy hell, either mitts just doesn't have nhl athleticism or he is lazy as ****. But he's young still. Got embarrassed badly. He will come back next year shredded, ready to let his game be the focus instead of his body/conditioning.

Idk, he very well might figure it out at some point, but I think he might need a wake up call trade to hit his opportunity, because I don't think he thinks this is a profession.

For any who might not know, Mitts family is not poor, so training costs shouldn't have been prohibitive. Univ. of Minnesota has some of the best facilities in the country and the college schedule is ideal for physical training. The Sabres have great facilities he had pro money and one of his good friends/Captain is one of the biggest weight room guys on the team.

I hope he figures it out, but his history is pretty consistent about not pushing to better himself in the gym.

Paralysis by analysis.

 

[valet]

My opinion on Casey Mittelstadt's lack of heart and drive comes from watching him play, watching him be challenged and back down. Watching him wait for opportunities to come to him instead of attacking and creating those opportunities for himself and others.

No, I was never a professional hockey coach. I did play 11 different sports in high school, played on multiple organized sports teams during my 8 years in the military, played organized sports in college, and continued play organized sports well into my 40's. I always overachieved and surprised people becoming a top player on every team I played on because I played 110%, giving it everything I had, never quitting, and rising up against every challenge. I loved playing against people like Casey Mittelstadt. Hot dogs that worked on their flashy skills to impress the girls, but in a real game, if you attacked them, defended them hard, took away their time and space, forcing them to fight for their opportunities, and use their teammates,.....they never stood up to it, they caved, turtled, took a vacation on the field of play. As I watch him, so far that is what I see in Casey. He has those flashy stick moves that work great on a shootout one on one with the goaltender, but put a relentless defender on him and his trick shot hands are useless. I stated that in my experience, I did not think he was likely to gain that heart. I stand by that because I think with most people it is their at an early age. A person's base personality is set by the time they are 6 years old, and 90% of their full personality it is set by the time they are 12 years old.

He has decent but not high end speed. Worse, he has below average burst, which is made worse by his hesitation to attack the play, close on a defender, etc. I am not a hockey coach, but if I was, I would have him working 100% on his skating burst because it will help with every aspect of his game both offensively and defensively, and I would tell him he sits a shift for every check he fails to initiate or finish, and sit a game for every 5 he collects.

Great. I think you're wrong. So I guess we're just gonna have wait and see who's evaluation is better.

 

[dasaybz]

Many times I saw a goal against replay with Casey coasting through watching, when a half second earlier he could have started pumping his legs and got himself involved. He wasn't even engaged. Legs straight coasting instead bent into an engaged and ready to react core. Its a mentality and focus. Its the difference between losing and getting beaten....do you know the difference?

Many of these so called "mentality and focus" issues can also be misidentified because he's been out of shape the last 2 years.

 

[Bendium]

Great. I think you're wrong. So I guess we're just gonna have wait and see who's evaluation is better.

Honestly? I hope it is you and several of you take this conversation and make me a big bowl of crow to eat, because that will make my team better in the future. I am not getting my spices out though. Like I said, use him in a trade to fill a current hole.

 

[Bendium]

Many of these so called "mentality and focus" issues can also be misidentified because he's been out of shape the last 2 years.

Ant why would being out of shape at this point in his career not be a primary indicator of a person/player who does not have the right mentality and focus? You seem to be providing evidence against your position.

 

[Der Jaeger]

There is truth in that there was this criticism especially at the start, but the response was very different. Sam had more genuine hockey skills vs Casey's trick shot skills. Sam was in over his head, but you could see slow and steady improvement from him as he worked and figured it out piece by piece. He put up 42 points in 79 games in his first full NHL season at 19 turning 20 years. Casey put up 25 in 77 during his first full NHL season at 19 turning 20 years. In his second year, instead of continuing to improve like Sam did, he slowly got worse not better, seemingly resolved to the situation, putting up worse numbers at 9pts in 31 games, he had more or less quit and got sent to the AHL. Not really at all how Sam responded.

You’re assessment of trick shot skills is off. Mittelstadt’s skill set is similar to Johansson’s.

You’re assessment of Reinhart and Mittelstadt is way off. Reinhart was playing RW and net front on the power play. He was playing most of the time with O’Reilly.

Mittelstadt was playing 2C with Vesey and Sheary.

Huge difference in positions. Huge difference in line mates.

 

[sabrebuild]

My opinion on Casey Mittelstadt's lack of heart and drive comes from watching him play, watching him be challenged and back down. Watching him wait for opportunities to come to him instead of attacking and creating those opportunities for himself and others.

No, I was never a professional hockey coach. I did play 11 different sports in high school, played on multiple organized sports teams during my 8 years in the military, played organized sports in college, and continued play organized sports well into my 40's. I always overachieved and surprised people becoming a top player on every team I played on because I played 110%, giving it everything I had, never quitting, and rising up against every challenge. I loved playing against people like Casey Mittelstadt. Hot dogs that worked on their flashy skills to impress the girls, but in a real game, if you attacked them, defended them hard, took away their time and space, forcing them to fight for their opportunities, and use their teammates,.....they never stood up to it, they caved, turtled, took a vacation on the field of play. As I watch him, so far that is what I see in Casey. He has those flashy stick moves that work great on a shootout one on one with the goaltender, but put a relentless defender on him and his trick shot hands are useless. I stated that in my experience, I did not think he was likely to gain that heart. I stand by that because I think with most people it is their at an early age. A person's base personality is set by the time they are 6 years old, and 90% of their full personality it is set by the time they are 12 years old.

He has decent but not high end speed. Worse, he has below average burst, which is made worse by his hesitation to attack the play, close on a defender, etc. I am not a hockey coach, but if I was, I would have him working 100% on his skating burst because it will help with every aspect of his game both offensively and defensively, and I would tell him he sits a shift for every check he fails to initiate or finish, and sit a game for every 5 he collects.

This is interesting in comparison to your let Botts stay philosophy....

 

[sabrebuild]

Paralysis by analysis.

Assuming you're referring to why Mitts might not be fully using his capabilities at the nhl level, agreed entirely possible.

 

[sabrebuild]

You’re assessment of trick shot skills is off. Mittelstadt’s skill set is similar to Johansson’s.

You’re assessment of Reinhart and Mittelstadt is way off. Reinhart was playing RW and net front on the power play. He was playing most of the time with O’Reilly.

Mittelstadt was playing 2C with Vesey and Sheary.

Huge difference in positions. Huge difference in line mates.

I agree with your general premise regarding role, but Reinhart started in the bottom six as a rookie and showed he deserved top 6 minutes.

More to the continued conversation, Sam came into camp in year two with a very noticeable improvement in physique.

 

[brian_griffin]

It’s a given the Sabres rushed him.
It’s unknown if he’ll ever amount to a quality NHLer.
It’s debatable where the fulcrum is between blame to Mittelstadt himself vs. the Sabres woeful development in general.

My concern is whether any Teammates will resent his privileged prior treatment if/when Mittelstadt returns to the Sabres squad. I don’t think it will be a big deal by the time Mittelstadt returns (if he’s not traded). Who now in BUF / ROC can say Mittelstadt blocked a roster spot? Asplund, Lazar, Cornel? I don’t think either of them are resentful types.

 

[Bendium]

I am amazed the lengths some will go to make excuses for Mittelstadt.

 

[Der Jaeger]

I am amazed the lengths some will go to make excuses for Mittelstadt.

I’m amazed at the length some will go the pass life judgment on a 21 year old.

 

[Bendium]

I’m amazed at the length some will go the pass life judgment on a 21 year old.

I joined the military when I was 18 and was leading men in high stress situations from day one. The guys that had it showed up with it. Bootcamp and other high pressure schools and situations were used to reveal it, not create it, and the ones that didn't have it were let go or shifted to non-critical low pressure functions. I have zero empathy for the softness of a 21 year-old getting paid more in a year than most of us make in a decade or more.

 

[joshjull]

I joined the military when I was 18 and was leading men in high stress situations from day one. The guys that had it showed up with it. Bootcamp and other high pressure schools and situations were used to reveal it, not create it, and the ones that didn't have it were let go or shifted to non-critical low pressure functions. I have zero empathy for the softness of a 21 year-old getting paid more in a year than most of us make in a decade or more.

This comes across as petty jealousy over the money he made which I doubt was the point you were trying to make. Nor does your military career have much to do with Mitt’s situation.

He was a player not ready for the NHL who was put into the NHL. There was very little high end hockey under his belt at the time he signed. Nor was he that impressive in those small samples with NHLe in the mid 20s in both his 24gms in USHL and the 34 at Minny.

Thats a player who needed more development to see if his game could grow. I have no idea why management thought he would be able to step right in. Maybe they were too giddy over the World Juniors or his 6 game NHL sample at the end of the 17-18 season. I know I was.

He started slow in the AHL (1pt in 5gms) but got his game going and has 10pts in last 11gms. Let’s see if he can continue to build on that and make any impact when the AHL playoffs roll around. He still has a chance to get his game on track and develop into a NHLer. Now we wait to see if he can.

 

[itwasaforwardpass]

I joined the military when I was 18 and was leading men in high stress situations from day one. The guys that had it showed up with it. Bootcamp and other high pressure schools and situations were used to reveal it, not create it, and the ones that didn't have it were let go or shifted to non-critical low pressure functions. I have zero empathy for the softness of a 21 year-old getting paid more in a year than most of us make in a decade or more.

Rather than focusing on the flaw in comparing military service to being on a sports team, I'll point out that you don't see Casey Mittelstadt at his place of work every day. You see him maybe 15 minutes on the ice a couple times a week on television (if that). That's not sufficient information to make in depth judgement on the character of someone you don't know.

 

[Zman5778]

I joined the military when I was 18 and was leading men in high stress situations from day one. The guys that had it showed up with it. Bootcamp and other high pressure schools and situations were used to reveal it, not create it, and the ones that didn't have it were let go or shifted to non-critical low pressure functions. I have zero empathy for the softness of a 21 year-old getting paid more in a year than most of us make in a decade or more.

The NHL is much more like regular life than the military. And as a pleb doing the "real life" thing by teaching 18-21 year olds for the last 15 years, I can tell you that taking a young adult who hasn't had to really work at anything before and calling them "soft" and "heartless" is a fool's errand.

To me, Casey's "problem" is obvious. And it's one encountered in real-life settings every day -- Casey did what he needed to do as a kid and got by on his natural talents. He then got rewarded heavily for it (spoiled, if you will). Upon reaching the next level.....he likely realized he was in over his head, and his supervisors did him no favors by letting him struggle. At some point, his supervisors realized that he needed to take a step back and relearn (or learn for the first time?) how to properly work towards his goals. We're starting to see that now in the AHL. Reports are that he's more engaged at both ends of the rink and it appears as if he's actually enjoying hockey again.

Underestimate untested young adults at your own risk.

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

I joined the military when I was 18 and was leading men in high stress situations from day one. The guys that had it showed up with it. Bootcamp and other high pressure schools and situations were used to reveal it, not create it, and the ones that didn't have it were let go or shifted to non-critical low pressure functions. I have zero empathy for the softness of a 21 year-old getting paid more in a year than most of us make in a decade or more.

The Army's whole thing is that they MAKE leaders. Skill/knowledge management is their core competency.

 

[Der Jaeger]

I joined the military when I was 18 and was leading men in high stress situations from day one. The guys that had it showed up with it. Bootcamp and other high pressure schools and situations were used to reveal it, not create it, and the ones that didn't have it were let go or shifted to non-critical low pressure functions. I have zero empathy for the softness of a 21 year-old getting paid more in a year than most of us make in a decade or more.

I joined the Army at 19 and have served 21 years so far. I’ve commanded combat units in combat. I also just got done commanding a basic training battalion, so I understand what young kids are like now. Very, very few come in ready to lead and perform in high stress situations. Very few 21 year olds were ready to lead or even perform in combat.

The kid got thrown from an average NCAA season into an NHL 2C role. Very few kids make that jump well. He should’ve been in Rochester from day one.

You can’t just a kid’s character from the TV screen.

 

[jd1970]

Rather than focusing on the flaw in comparing military service to being on a sports team, I'll point out that you don't see Casey Mittelstadt at his place of work every day. You see him maybe 15 minutes on the ice a couple times a week on television (if that). That's not sufficient information to make in depth judgement on the character of someone you don't know.

All sports are modelled on the military.

 

[OkimLom]

I joined the Army at 19 and have served 21 years so far. I’ve commanded combat units in combat. I also just got done commanding a basic training battalion, so I understand what young kids are like now. Very, very few come in ready to lead and perform in high stress situations. Very few 21 year olds were ready to lead or even perform in combat.

The kid got thrown from an average NCAA season into an NHL 2C role. Very few kids make that jump well. He should’ve been in Rochester from day one.

You can’t just a kid’s character from the TV screen.

Or kept in college where you don't burn off valuable years off his ELC and let him develop.

 

[Dirty Dog]

What is this thread anymore?

 

[joshjull]

What is this thread anymore?

It’s being all it can be.......