GDT: carpit

[GIN ANTONIC]

Vatanen

Maybe. Depends on the money. It doesn’t make sense to have a guy making $4+ mil on your bottom pairing

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

Well I’d be shocked to see either of Edmundson or TVR back on the team next year.

Gardiner might need to be moved out in order to balance the roster. The top 4 should be set with the following...

Slavin - Dougie
Skej - Pesce

If Fleury takes the 3rd pairing LD slot which it seems like he should then we need an RD to pair with him. Maybe someone like Demelo is a guy we look at in free agency to fill that hole.

Solid plan.

my alternate would be
Slavin-Dougie
Skjei-Pesce
Bean-Fleury
An old RHD as a 7th D

bean doesn’t work out then we have a veteran to cover down until the deadline.

 

[DaveG]

Well I’d be shocked to see either of Edmundson or TVR back on the team next year.

Gardiner might need to be moved out in order to balance the roster. The top 4 should be set with the following...

Slavin - Dougie
Skej - Pesce

If Fleury takes the 3rd pairing LD slot which it seems like he should then we need an RD to pair with him. Maybe someone like Demelo is a guy we look at in free agency to fill that hole.

Gards may be back simply for expansion draft purposes. IE: giving a prospect or a 2nd to Seattle in order to get them to take who we want may be worth it. Without Gardner we're suddenly low on options that we can lose and still maintain a decent defense. I figure next year we're looking at:

Slavin - Hamilton
Skjei - Pesce
Gardner - Fleury

with Bean and Keane being the two callups as needed, maybe Sellgren, Kaski, or McKeown as well. Still gives the 4LHD/2RHD issue but I don't think Rod cares nearly as much about lefty-righty as Peters did, though preference would be for balance.

 

[bleedgreen]

Rod was sitting Fleury because Fleury was playing like a #6-7 defenseman, and had a long history of playing at that level. Fleury has gotten more experience and confidence with more ice time, and he's played much better. But when Rod was constantly sitting him, he was not outplaying guys like TVR. He currently is, and by a substantial margin. Rod can be stubborn, but he isn't blind. Fleury will not be the first one in the pressbox.

If we go back to Rod’s first camp he literally said the words that TVR got the last spot because he was a veteran and had done nothing wrong so he wasn’t going to sit him or send him down, and sent Fleury down to the AHL. I don’t remember the exact wording but it came across that they had performed at least equally. Which is my primary point in the previous post, from the get go with Fleury he has preferred the vet in TVR’s case last year purely out of obligation. After being an NHL dman the year before the kid spent most of the year in the minors and played a huge role in the championship. Then he comes back to camp and I thought he played great, Rod’s biggest complaint which was echoed through the media that Fleury wasn’t mean enough. That’s why Edmunson immediately got his spot after the Faulk trade, and Rod was vocal about specifically the style of play 6 brought. Rod wanted that especially in the third pair.

Fleury has always played reasonably physical, I had no idea why he was being pushed that way. The other guys aren’t that physical. So when he didn’t change his style enough and 6 arrives again he’s the odd man out. Then he plays sparingly in and out of the lineup, in sheltered minutes because Rod has other guys he leans on.

Until the injuries and now Fleury is the next guy up and has to play the bigger minutes. He slides into a role and gets confident from it. Which has always been his issue. In and out of the lineup isn’t any good for him.

I’m not saying for sure Rod will sit him first chance he gets, but I would hardly be surprised if he did. He wants Edmunsons grit. No one is probably happy about benching Gardiners salary and trade value. It’ll be interesting if it ever becomes an issue. Most likely moot regardless with Pesce and Hamilton not close and who the hell knows with Vatanen.

ps back to my original point all I’m saying for next year Fluery on the left third pair makes a lot of sense. Cheaper and he’s earned it. Hopefully Edmunson moves on and they find a way to move Jake. I’d greatly prefer Vatanen for that right side but I wouldn’t freak out if it’s TVR to save cash. Not expecting it to be a kid.

 

[Stickpucker]

I've liked Skjei's game pretty well but that trade tells me someone with term is going this summer for a similar $ forward. By all accounts Bean is already good to go so I would be surprised to see him in Charlotte next year.

 

[My Special Purpose]

Big love to Forsberg and Ned this weekend. They earned us 4 points as much as anyone else on the team.

The Canes have had a different goalie get the win in each of their past three wins, each recording his first win of the season.

 

[Stickpucker]

Watching this game made me realize how well we've been drafting and developing compared to the past.

Slavin, Pesce...obviouly....Fleury...he's come along really nicely and had some clutch offense even. He looks like he could have more of an offensive upside than Slavin or Pesce. He has a better idea of when to shoot and how to get the puck to guys in front of the net than the former.

Aho, Svechnikov, Foegele, McGinn, Necas, Geekie...

Way different than the past where we tried to fill every hole with a trade or signing.

 

[spockBokk]

Watching this game made me realize how well we've been drafting and developing compared to the past.

Slavin, Pesce...obviouly....Fleury...he's come along really nicely and had some clutch offense even. He looks like he could have more of an offensive upside than Slavin or Pesce. He has a better idea of when to shoot and how to get the puck to guys in front of the net than the former.

Aho, Svechnikov, Foegele, McGinn, Necas, Geekie...

Way different than the past where we tried to fill every hole with a trade or signing.

And (based soley on my own opinion) there are still quite a few of NHLr's on the way over the coming years in Cotton (hopefully), Drury, Suzuki, Rees and Lorentz. Those are the guys I think are much more likely than not NHL players.

Then you've got the boom/bust guys in Bokk and Puistola. The forward pipeline is in very good shape. And hopefully they also add a guy like Conner Zary or Jack Quinn this draft...

 

[MrazeksVengeance]

Watching this game made me realize how well we've been drafting and developing compared to the past.

Slavin, Pesce...obviously....Fleury...he's come along really nicely and had some clutch offense even. He looks like he could have more of an offensive upside than Slavin or Pesce. He has a better idea of when to shoot and how to get the puck to guys in front of the net than the former.

Aho, Svechnikov, Foegele, McGinn, Necas, Geekie...

Way different than the past where we tried to fill every hole with a trade or signing.

SOMETIMES IT'S EASY TO FORGET HOW YOUNG THIS TEAM IS.

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

And (based soley on my own opinion) there are still quite a few of NHLr's on the way over the coming years in Cotton (hopefully), Drury, Suzuki, Rees and Lorentz. Those are the guys I think are much more likely than not NHL players.

Then you've got the boom/bust guys in Bokk and Puistola. The forward pipeline is in very good shape. And hopefully they also add a guy like Conner Zary or Jack Quinn this draft...

And knowing this FO, if a bunch of those guys perform well in Charlotte and/or the NHL (in Lorentz's case, due to waiver eligibility), they could all be very valuable trade pieces for yet another win-now need without giving up too many draft picks.

 

[bleedgreen]

We’re blowing through that currency at a rate that might make JR blush. There’s a tipping point somewhere, and you usually don’t know you’re there till you’re past it. We still have Stelios as a possibility and I’m sure we’ll sign a few to move into Charlotte like Henman and hopefully Cotton. Filipe? We tend to over rate our prospects, just like everyone else to an extent. I’m against pushing Drury, I think the whole “nothing left to prove” concept is hogwash especially with him and if they have Cotton and Henman both I don’t know how many center spots are open down there anyways. I know someone can move to wing but there’s no need for that at the development level imo. Don’t force them into the system to switch positions if they can develop where they’re at. Those decisions are coming up soon, that’ll be an interesting thing to follow.

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

We’re blowing through that currency at a rate that might make JR blush. There’s a tipping point somewhere, and you usually don’t know you’re there till you’re past it.

Not even close to true. We still have 5 picks in the first 4 rounds of the draft, and they IMO will almost certainly trade down to get more picks considering how deep this draft allegedly is. What's actually quite amazing about this deadline was about how little that they actually touched from our draft pick pool because of how well we've developed guys in Charlotte. The one 1st rounder that we traded went into a 25 year old defenseman with 4 years left on his contract.

 

[MrazeksVengeance]

Not even close to true. We still have 5 picks in the first 4 rounds of the draft, and they IMO will almost certainly trade down to get more picks considering how deep this draft allegedly is.

WHATEVER YOU SAY WORST GM THE CANES NEVER HAD.

 

[Negan4Coach]

LOL, the Pens post-game thread has to have a Mod warning sticky,

 

[MrazeksVengeance]

LOL, the Pens post-game thread has to have a Mod warning sticky,

Good thing I smelled something fishy and bailed out BEFORE GETTING TOO HAMMY.

 

[Penaltykiller17]

Not even close to true. We still have 5 picks in the first 4 rounds of the draft, and they IMO will almost certainly trade down to get more picks considering how deep this draft allegedly is. What's actually quite amazing about this deadline was about how little that they actually touched from our draft pick pool because of how well we've developed guys in Charlotte. The one 1st rounder that we traded went into a 25 year old defenseman with 4 years left on his contract.

In addition, with all the drafting and other roster moves we’ve made, there’s becoming less and less of a necessity to be carrying so many prospects.

 

[NotOpie]

I know someone can move to wing but there’s no need for that at the development level imo.

One thing to note re: Cotton, he's played mostly LW for the last two seasons at BC. I think his ultimate spot in the NHL would be a good skating power forward role.

 

[cptjeff]

If we go back to Rod’s first camp he literally said the words that TVR got the last spot because he was a veteran and had done nothing wrong so he wasn’t going to sit him or send him down, and sent Fleury down to the AHL. I don’t remember the exact wording but it came across that they had performed at least equally. .

Yes, they had performed roughly equally. Both were playing as 6-7 guys. Fleury was NOT noticeably better out of that camp. Tie goes to the vet. Now, Fleury is substantially better and it's not even close to a tie.

 

[bleedgreen]

Not even close to true. We still have 5 picks in the first 4 rounds of the draft, and they IMO will almost certainly trade down to get more picks considering how deep this draft allegedly is. What's actually quite amazing about this deadline was about how little that they actually touched from our draft pick pool because of how well we've developed guys in Charlotte. The one 1st rounder that we traded went into a 25 year old defenseman with 4 years left on his contract.

As always, I respect your optimism and passion. I feel you give us too much credit sometimes.

I have this thing where I don't assume many of our prospects turn into gold, or even every day minor leaguers. I don't believe we're doing things very differently other than following the trends of the league and using more like analytics - which everyone is doing. It's still a crap shoot. The previous regime did a good job stocking the pile so we had plenty of older prospects available to move that they currently have no emotional attachments to so that ammo has been used. We like to think the next crop is seamlessly going to fill all the gaps but it just doesnt always work that way. It's easy to go light for a year or two, last year and this years crop may take some time to feel the impact of. I agree at some point we are likely to get pretty full again, we'll see if this regime is as easy to move out their own picked prospects when those times come.

Regardless we've definitely spent some assets, and I dont disagree most of it was well spent. I dont know that anything we've sent out will really hurt that badly, it just took so long to get to this point you dont want it to lurch back to the other side. Also I like rooting for our own kids obviously.

 

[bleedgreen]

One thing to note re: Cotton, he's played mostly LW for the last two seasons at BC. I think his ultimate spot in the NHL would be a good skating power forward role.

Center definitely looks filled for a few years, maybe he's the one to move. Wonder if that'll factor into his decision to sign. Lorentz has taken a long time to move up the ladder, lesser AHL depth on another team probably wouldve meant he never went to the ECHL at all. He seemed good enough to be third line center at the AHL level from the get go. I still see these two as pretty similar.

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

As always, I respect your optimism and passion. I feel you give us too much credit sometimes.

I have this thing where I don't assume many of our prospects turn into gold, or even every day minor leaguers. I don't believe we're doing things very differently other than following the trends of the league and using more like analytics - which everyone is doing. It's still a crap shoot. The previous regime did a good job stocking the pile so we had plenty of older prospects available to move that they currently have no emotional attachments to so that ammo has been used. We like to think the next crop is seamlessly going to fill all the gaps but it just doesnt always work that way. It's easy to go light for a year or two, last year and this years crop may take some time to feel the impact of. I agree at some point we are likely to get pretty full again, we'll see if this regime is as easy to move out their own picked prospects when those times come.

Regardless we've definitely spent some assets, and I dont disagree most of it was well spent. I dont know that anything we've sent out will really hurt that badly, it just took so long to get to this point you dont want it to lurch back to the other side. Also I like rooting for our own kids obviously.

I agree with this general assessment, especially the bolded.

However, what we are doing differently, and I think better, is changing the behavior of asset management of the organization based on the knowledge that it is a crapshoot. We drafted 12 players last year. That's almost a "double draft" (everyone gets 7). The fact that we keep valuing darts, trade down in the draft because we recognize it's a crapshoot, etc. That excites me. I don't think we're better at "drafting" than anyone else, that's hard to do. But the way we're approaching the asset management leading up to draft is exciting.

And, as you mentioned, what happens when the guys we take don't work out? Fine, we have enough draft picks to mitigate that risk. Do we end up with too many players? Trade them like you would picks (frankly, trade them before you trade your picks, since that essentially "resets" the clock like the Keane/Gauthier trade did).

Drafting 12 players in a year you picked 28th overall is really impressive. It's understandable to average 8 or 9 picks when you're a perennial bottom-feeder. Something about the way this front office has done its business, however, makes me think we will be consistently stockpiling picks for the foreseeable future, regardless of in-season success. We still have 7 picks this year, and 5 in the first three rounds, despite all the deadline wheeling and dealing, and I'd expect we continue to trade down like we did last year.

 

[A Star is Burns]

@bleedgreen, I don't think most that are considering signing Drury are using the nothing left to prove logic. I think it's more that he's proven a lot, so let's strike now before he can even get anywhere close to thinking about free agency. That may be too cautious on our part, we and you may prefer that he stay in college if there were no other factors, but I think we know it's worth considering with so many other versions of guys going UFA when blowing up even more than expected for years now across the NHL. Whether college UFA or NHL players reaching July 1, they always say the closer you let them get, the more tempted they might get to at least take a sniff.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

Don't let the guy from the Northeast and whose famous uncle played and now works for the Rags anywhere close to free agency.

 

[bleedgreen]

I agree with this general assessment, especially the bolded.

However, what we are doing differently, and I think better, is changing the behavior of asset management of the organization based on the knowledge that it is a crapshoot. We drafted 12 players last year. That's almost a "double draft" (everyone gets 7). The fact that we keep valuing darts, trade down in the draft because we recognize it's a crapshoot, etc. That excites me. I don't think we're better at "drafting" than anyone else, that's hard to do. But the way we're approaching the asset management leading up to draft is exciting.

And, as you mentioned, what happens when the guys not work out? Fine, we have enough draft picks to mitigate that risk. Do we end up with too many players? Trade them like you would picks (frankly, trade them before you trade your picks, since that essentially "resets" the clock like the Keane/Gauthier trade did).

Drafting 12 players in a year you picked 28th overall is really impressive. It's understandable to average 8 or 9 picks when you're a perennial bottom-feeder. Something about the way this front office has done its business, however, makes me think we will be consistently stockpiling picks for the foreseeable future, regardless of in-season success. We still have 7 picks this year, and 5 in the first three rounds, despite all the deadline wheeling and dealing, and I'd expect we continue to trade down like we did last year.

I actually don't like trading down, especially the top two rounds. We'll see how it works out for last year but I've often found it to be better to just take the best guy on your list instead of being content to get two guys who were likely further down. Other than that I agree with ya. We have enough picks to just pick the ones we have. I get moving UP for sure.

 

[bleedgreen]

@bleedgreen, I don't think most that are considering signing Drury are using the nothing left to prove logic. I think it's more that he's proven a lot, so let's strike now before he can even get anywhere close to thinking about free agency. That may be too cautious on our part, we and you may prefer that he stay in college if there were no other factors, but I think we know it's worth considering with so many other versions of guys going UFA when blowing up even more than expected for years now across the NHL. Whether college UFA or NHL players reaching July 1, they always say the closer you let them get, the more tempted they might get to at least take a sniff.

Oh and from that end I agree you can't wait too long, but theres definitely been some voices that think he should be signed because the's done enough down there.

If things weren't the way they are now I'd say he's a perfect candidate to follow the family development path and stay all four years. Drury at 22 is what we want. Given the current climate yes I'd be pulling to sign him after his junior year for sure. After his Sophomore is pushing it, he needs more baking.