Injury Report: Carey Price suffered from chronic fatigue

[Andrei79]

I don't have a strong understanding of your position as I can only discuss the posts that I replied too and some of the inherent discussion.

As for your second question, in my opinion it's usually a 70+ pts C that can hold his own defensively. Generally for any team just being strong down the middle is never a bad thing. I know for a fact that no team makes it far anymore on goaltending alone. The only reason Nashville got far last year is goaltending and elite D (even with Ekholm injured). Final could have been a lot more interesting with Johansen and Ekholm in the lineup.

In the end we can't deny that today's NHL is all about having elite players at C and D, having even an above average goalie is enough to win as long as you have stars in front.

I asked you as most of what you're writing here was adressed in my posts.

For example, if the 70 point standard is used for centers, then we can eliminate Boston as none of theirs did it with any regularity. Toews usually misses the mark as well, but under other circumstances (lockouts, injuries).

But on a more fundamental level, my point was never about saying a team can make it far on goaltending alone. It was the complete opposite, actually. It was both a criticism of the way Bergevin built the team with that idea and a criticism of the way people immediatly conclude that building around a goalie as its foundation, or co-foundation, implies that very same idea.

 

[Andrei79]

I respectfully disagree. The game has evolved over the past two decades. With the way systems are set up now, you’re pretty much screwed if you’re not strong down the middle and/or have a good defensive group. You don’t see to many goalies carrying teams to cups anymore. Even the year Quick was statically flawless, LA’s system with size was really the true force with that team. If you look at a list of every team that’s won a cup in the salary cap era, they were all strong down the middle. The defence is just important. If you don’t have a couple of top guys on defence, you better compensate by having really good depth 1 threw 6.

I'm not arguing against depth down the middle, but of the importance some put in having your very best players at a designated position.

If you want a more concrete example, you could start a franchise around Patrick Kane and Carey Price. Adding almost any player or center around the league from 13' to 16', those two players would be your two most important players. That same team would need depth in other positions, including the center line, in the same manner a team like Dallas could do very little having a tandem like they've had before Spezza's decline.

And that's the real issue with these arguments: you rightly point out that you don't see goalies carrying teams to cups anymore, but this is true of every position, centers included. You need depth everywhere. Where your best players are positioned is not a true predictor if you're taking into account the real confounders.

 

[nhlfan9191]

I'm not arguing against depth down the middle, but of the importance some put in having your very best players at a designated position.

If you want a more concrete example, you could start a franchise around Patrick Kane and Carey Price. Adding almost any player or center around the league from 13' to 16', those two players would be your two most important players. That same team would need depth in other positions, including the center line, in the same manner a team like Dallas could do very little having a tandem like they've had before Spezza's decline.

And that's the real issue with these arguments: you rightly point out that you don't see goalies carrying teams to cups anymore, but this is true of every position, centers included. You need depth everywhere. Where your best players are positioned is not a true predictor if you're taking into account the real confounders.

I absolutely agree with the bolder statement. But there are certain positions that are more important then others because of replacement value. Just look at how difficult it is to get centers and defenders compared to wingers and goaltending. You definitely need to have depth in all positions but when you build around a winger or a goalie, your chances of success are minimal because you leave yourself looking to fill holes that are incredibly hard to fill. Nobody wants to give up legit top 6 centers or too 2 defenceman, and if they are it’s going to cost an arm and a leg.

 

[Andrei79]

I absolutely agree with the bolder statement. But there are certain positions that are more important then others because of replacement value. Just look at how difficult it is to get centers and defenders compared to wingers and goaltending. You definitely need to have depth in all positions but when you build around a winger or a goalie, your chances of success are minimal because you leave yourself looking to fill holes that are incredibly hard to fill. Nobody wants to give up legit top 6 centers or too 2 defenceman, and if they are it’s going to cost an arm and a leg.

Fair points.

Sometimes market value ia more of a reflection of perception rather than actual on ice impact. Centers are usually where the best talents end up also, but that only furthers your point.

As a general rule, I'd say you would be right here.

In a perfect world, McDonagh would have been trades for a true no. 1, Galchy would've been developped and this discussion would only be had on the Blue Jackets forum.

 

[mariolemieux66]

Price will never live up to his new contract. Bergevin certainly has no idea how to build a hockey team.

 

[Habs]

Is CF when you can't learn to stop a puck from going over your right shoulder?

 

[Aspirine]

Price could be vegan,

Vegans lack b12, they need supplements
its in meat and dairy and
vitamin D is added to most dairy products...
Maybe he switched during the summer
Vegans can thrive but they need a healthy balanced diet, I myself I am one and use the same supplements

Absolutely OT but you should know that livestock are actually supplemented to get you that oh so precious B12. There isn't more in meat naturally than in plants.

 

[mariolemieux66]

8 more years

 

[Genesis76]

8 more years

Best Player in the world

 

[Deluded Puck]

The story of the Montreal Canadiens 1994- Present

 

[NotProkofievian]

I mean, I'd be pretty tired of seeing my net filled with rubber too. I might even be chronically fatigued given how the season has played out.

 

[optimus2861]

I do waffle between feeling bad for Price, signing that big contract with a team that's going to be simply awful for a significant period; and only wanting to play the world's tiniest violin for him, because rather than take a chance at FA or demand a trade to a real contender, he took the money and ran.

 

[Scintillating10]

We need to approach Price and see if he will waive his no-trade clause? Can't properly rebuild with him. We can use the assets he would return and caproom this summer.

 

[Le Tricolore]

The story of the Montreal Canadiens 1994- Present

Yet some people are going to blame Price for a bunch of our losses.

 

[Habs 4 Life]

Don't get me wrong, I love Price
But he is not worth that contract, no goalies should be making that kind of money. It's been proven by recent Cup champs
But blaming him makes no sense, this poor guy has shit players in front of them
Guys like Alzner who can't keep up with their man
Get's no goal support
I'd honestly ask out if I were him

 

[nhlfan9191]

Yet some people are going to blame Price for a bunch of our losses.

He’s been the starting goalie here for a decade which is incredibly impressive given its Montreal. It kind of feels like his expiry date may be up as the fans are only going to get worse. He’s not untradeable regardless of what some fans on HF think. If we can move him, we should be so we can put to rest this flawed perception that you can build a team around goaltending. Price gets a fresh start and so does the team in that scenario.

 

[417]

Difficult to excel as a goaltender when you have ZERO margin for error.

Not even when you're making 10.5M per year.

 

[Le Tricolore]

He’s been the starting goalie here for a decade which is incredibly impressive given its Montreal. It kind of feels like his expiry date may be up as the fans are only going to get worse. He’s not untradeable regardless of what some fans on HF think. If we can move him, we should be so we can put to rest this flawed perception that you can build a team around goaltending. Price gets a fresh start and so does the team in that scenario.

If the team in front of him is halfway decent next year, people will be back to loving Price.

He gets undeservedly crapped on when the team doesn't win, it's ridiculous and has been since he was drafted.

 

[NotProkofievian]

Carey's been a 0.903 keeper in 2018, let's not confuse the issue. He has sucked a lot this year.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

This contract is actually the worst move MB has made. I still believe in Price, but man...

 

[417]

Carey's been a 0.903 keeper in 2018, let's not confuse the issue. He has sucked a lot this year.

The entire team has though...expecting his save percentage to be higher seems unrealistic to me.

Though you're right, there was a period earlier in the year where he was absolutely brutal, before his injury, since he's returned he's looked more like the Price we know, but with no goal support. There's too much pressure on him winning games on his own IMO.

 

[nhlfan9191]

If the team in front of him is halfway decent next year, people will be back to loving Price.

He gets undeservedly crapped on when the team doesn't win, it's ridiculous and has been since he was drafted.

He’s played really well the last 2 games but he’s looked like a mess as far as confidence goes all season and his game has a ton of holes in it right now. He can and will rebound, but that contract is going to make him a meatshield for the team the remainder of his time here.

 

[NotProkofievian]

The entire team has though...expecting his save percentage to be higher seems unrealistic to me.

Though you're right, there was a period earlier in the year where he was absolutely brutal, before his injury, since he's returned he's looked more like the Price we know, but with no goal support. There's too much pressure on him winning games on his own IMO.

Price managed to serve me up some crow in december. But it wasn't like a huge heaping portion. It was more like I went out for crow tapas. Most of the year he's just not looked anything like the Carey Price of legend.

The way the pundits totally reverse their opinions on the basis of a couple games is bonkers to me. One night, Elliotte was saying that Molson and Bergevin had discussed rebuilding. Then like...2 or 3 games later it was like ''if Carey Price is back to being Carey Price this team is confident and dangerous.'' Like...gtfo, Elliotte.

 

[Schwang]

This contract is actually the worst move MB has made. I still believe in Price, but man...

Unfortunately he signed him to a ridiculous contract and has a defenceman with another ridiculous contract while at the same time failing to rebuild/retool with cheap, young players. If he would’ve done that, I’d be ok with the 2 big contracts. Imagine those 2 guys but surrounded by the young prospects from Toronto instead of what we currently have. That would look great. But now with the supporting cast we have, those 2 huge contracts stand out and look terrible.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

Unfortunately he signed him to a ridiculous contract and has a defenceman with another ridiculous contract while at the same time failing to rebuild/retool with cheap, young players. If he would’ve done that, I’d be ok with the 2 big contracts. Imagine those 2 guys but surrounded by the young prospects from Toronto instead of what we currently have. That would look great. But now with the supporting cast we have, those 2 huge contracts stand out and look terrible.

The Weber contract is misunderstood, and is actually a great contract for us. This Price one though, is another beast...