Player Discussion Carey Price - Covid Playoff Edition

[Canadienna]

I think this thing is busted...

 

[Mikah]

Why do people always come back blaming the defense?

You can give Jordan Weal and Arturri Lekhonen to McDavid, and he will still log 100+ points in a season.

At $10.5M for Price, I expect him to show top 3 stats in the NHL behind 6 Nathan Beaulieu. That's what you expect from a franchise player and that kind of money, nothing less. If you need to have 3 pairs made of Josi-Weber to show that kind of stats, you can just hire David Ayres. You will get the same result. And that's why you don't pay that kind of money for a goalie.

Price has shown below average stats for 4 years now, and he is 33 years old. It is not going to get better. Blame the current defense all you want, I would say that overall, they are probably above average compared to the rest of the teams Montreal is facing.

What Price needs right now is a huge wakeup call. Enough of playing the diva now. I hope he watches Allen take his spot, and start shopping for a house in Seattle.

 

[JeffreyLFC]

Yes, I don't get how we can always blame the defense. They are not great but they have experience and have done a decent job. They have their braincramps (Chiarot say Hello) but somehow with Allen in net the team play better.

The problem is Price. End of.

 

[Revansky]

Price is not playing well, he seems to have problem tracking the puck and he's less compact in his positioning than usually. He has difficulty recovering from a bad read or an unexpected rebound. Price peak years may be behind him but he can be an average 1st goalie still with his skills. I would play Allen next game and maybe tuesday, if we win. Then, you can't put Price on the bench too long. If he has a nagging injury that we don't know about maybe. But you have to give him the chance to get back on track, max on thursday.

 

[TheGoalJudge]

Why do people always come back blaming the defense?

You can give Jordan Weal and Arturri Lekhonen to McDavid, and he will still log 100+ points in a season.

At $10.5M for Price, I expect him to show top 3 stats in the NHL behind 6 Nathan Beaulieu. That's what you expect from a franchise player and that kind of money, nothing less. If you need to have 3 pairs made of Josi-Weber to show that kind of stats, you can just hire David Ayres. You will get the same result. And that's why you don't pay that kind of money for a goalie.

Price has shown below average stats for 4 years now, and he is 33 years old. It is not going to get better. Blame the current defense all you want, I would say that overall, they are probably above average compared to the rest of the teams Montreal is facing.

What Price needs right now is a huge wakeup call. Enough of playing the diva now. I hope he watches Allen take his spot, and start shopping for a house in Seattle.

This is the exact problem with paying goalies, yes.

Congrats, you are smarter than like 25 NHL GMs.

Also, don't forget that this 10.5M player can only play like 60 games a year.

 

[BehindTheTimes]

There have been 55 goalies this season that have played 5 games or more. Price currently ranks 50th out of those 55 goalies with that sv%.

it's not his fault, it is everybody else's.

 

[BehindTheTimes]

Price has stunk all year. His terrible play cost another coach his job. Ducharme will never overcome sub .900sv % goaltending, no coach will. I'd trade him in a New York minute, I don't think there are any takers and I don't think our management has the foresight to get it done anyway. They will wait until the rest of the league has caught on and then try to move him.

He's a 10.5 million dollar boat anchor. I don't care who his replacement is, they wouldn't be any worse than him atm.

 

[GrandmaCookie]

Price has stunk all year. His terrible play cost another coach his job. Ducharme will never overcome sub .900sv % goaltending, no coach will. I'd trade him in a New York minute, I don't think there are any takers and I don't think our management has the foresight to get it done anyway. They will wait until the rest of the league has caught on and then try to move him.

He's a 10.5 million dollar boat anchor. I don't care who his replacement is, they wouldn't be any worse than him atm.

The saddest part about comments like that is that, at this point, they aren't hyperbole anymore.

 

[BehindTheTimes]

I hope this comes across the right way, because I enjoy your posts and come in peace.

I've been a Price fan since junior. For me, I think the evidence comes from when he was aged 17-33, there has been nothing in those 16 years to give any credence whatsoever that he won't come back and won't be fine. He is 4th in wins among active goalies, 3rd in games played among active, 9th in GAA and 8th in Save %, again among all active goalies.

If you look at performance probability, not blind faith, if anything he has shown to be one of the upper echelon goalies his entire career at every level. That also holds up statistically, and if you factor in that the majority of his prime was played behind virtual lottery teams, the numbers look even gaudier. Last year, he was amazing in the playoffs.

Speaking of playoffs? 8th is playoff wins among current, 6th in games played, 13th in save %, 15 in GAA, and I'd argue that other than year 1 of Bergevins tenure, there haven't been a legit playoff team in front of Price in quite some time. But he still plays well.

Has he played well this season? No. Consistent? No. Does he have to get better? Of course, yes. There is nothing to argue there, he has let in a LOT of soft goals, and it's unacceptable. But looking over the course of nearly two decades of work, despite his age I don't see anything to suggest this is anything other than a prolonged funk he needs to work out of. I think the solution is the more he plays, the better he gets, but you can't justify playing him this much if he plays the way he is. Quite a problem!

But will he come back?? The only evidence I see suggesting otherwise coming the other way is the argument he is 33, a 20 game body of work and the fact he makes 10.5 million dollars (And the odd statistical comparison to perennial backup Halak suggesting they are one in the same).

So I guess my question is, other than his age and his contract, what evidence is there he WON'T bounce back and be successful? I'm legitimately curious, but all I hear is his contract and his age.

Price has been meh at best for 2-3 years straight. He's not a gamebreaker being paid game breaking cash. He's a boat anchor. For 3 seasons he had screwed the pooch when games matter the most. I don't doubt that he will bounce back towards the latter half of the season, when the habs are no longer in contention and have respectable numbers by the years end. Every Price lover like yourself and LG will be rewriting history and telling us he had a good season, but when things actually mattered, he stunk. Different year, same story, trade him for a lesser albatross contract, but he's got to go, his play has been so bad that it is demoralizing to the team in front of him. He's not just struggling, he sucks, bad goals every game he plays. He makes one or two big saves like every goalie in the league does each game and the apologist will be on here saying how he kept us in the game.

If i'm the coach, he doesn't play again until he earns it. Allen gets the nod and you give him rest days and if he struggles you give price a chance to displace him, but as of now Price doesn't deserve the blind faith many supporters have of him.

 

[Miller Time]

Price has been meh at best for 2-3 years straight. He's not a gamebreaker being paid game breaking cash. He's a boat anchor. For 3 seasons he had screwed the pooch when games matter the most. I don't doubt that he will bounce back towards the latter half of the season, when the habs are no longer in contention and have respectable numbers by the years end. Every Price lover like yourself and LG will be rewriting history and telling us he had a good season, but when things actually mattered, he stunk. Different year, same story, trade him for a lesser albatross contract, but he's got to go, his play has been so bad that it is demoralizing to the team in front of him. He's not just struggling, he sucks, bad goals every game he plays. He makes one or two big saves like every goalie in the league does each game and the apologist will be on here saying how he kept us in the game.

If i'm the coach, he doesn't play again until he earns it. Allen gets the nod and you give his rest days and if he struggles you give price a chance to displace him, but as of now Price doesn't deserve the blind faith many supporters have of him.

he was pretty damn good last year in the playoffs... tiny sample size, and i'd agree his play over the whole of the past few seasons has been disappointing... but so has the entire roster MB built.

In the only, albeit small, portion of games that actually "mattered" in the past few years, he played very much at the "game breaker" level he's paid to play at. I don't doubt he still has it in him, but it's very concerning and questionable that he struggles to bring that "A" game to the regular season consistently... and to the degree that he doesn't, he is indeed an "anchor".

 

[BehindTheTimes]

he was pretty damn good last year in the playoffs... tiny sample size, and i'd agree his play over the whole of the past few seasons has been disappointing... but so has the entire roster MB built.

In the only, albeit small, portion of games that actually "mattered" in the past few years, he played very much at the "game breaker" level he's paid to play at. I don't doubt he still has it in him, but it's very concerning and questionable that he struggles to bring that "A" game to the regular season consistently... and to the degree that he doesn't, he is indeed an "anchor".

Those few games during the playins don’t represent the goalie he is now. I think the 150 games of sucking better represent who he is than a 10 game streak. He was always overhyped imo, now he sucks. This roster is a good roster, Allen doesn’t have a sub .900 sv %, we got one player stinking and he’s out most expensive. Same story, different year.

 

[TheRealPrice]

I see no issues with Price, he's been playing like this since his big contract. My biggest concern is with the ownership. They haven't changed Bergevin. Why?

 

[habamillions]

Why do people always come back blaming the defense?

You can give Jordan Weal and Arturri Lekhonen to McDavid, and he will still log 100+ points in a season.

At $10.5M for Price, I expect him to show top 3 stats in the NHL behind 6 Nathan Beaulieu. That's what you expect from a franchise player and that kind of money, nothing less. If you need to have 3 pairs made of Josi-Weber to show that kind of stats, you can just hire David Ayres. You will get the same result. And that's why you don't pay that kind of money for a goalie.

Price has shown below average stats for 4 years now, and he is 33 years old. It is not going to get better. Blame the current defense all you want, I would say that overall, they are probably above average compared to the rest of the teams Montreal is facing.

What Price needs right now is a huge wakeup call. Enough of playing the diva now. I hope he watches Allen take his spot, and start shopping for a house in Seattle.

Exactly. He needs to he held to a higher standard. Cant make many extra additions because of the money he makes.

 

[Mikah]

he was pretty damn good last year in the playoffs... tiny sample size, and i'd agree his play over the whole of the past few seasons has been disappointing... but so has the entire roster MB built.

In the only, albeit small, portion of games that actually "mattered" in the past few years, he played very much at the "game breaker" level he's paid to play at. I don't doubt he still has it in him, but it's very concerning and questionable that he struggles to bring that "A" game to the regular season consistently... and to the degree that he doesn't, he is indeed an "anchor".

Exactly. To me, that's a motivation problem.

Perhaps he just doesn't care to play for a whole season. Or he knows he is on his last contract and lacks the motivation to give it all every night. I get it, he has lots of kids at home now and he's probably not really focused on the job as much. It's not easy with the COVID and all to be away from the family.

But if you are going to sign that kind of contract, you need to have a bit more self esteem and show some professionnalism. Others do.

 

[Miller Time]

Those few games during the playins don’t represent the goalie he is now. I think the 150 games of sucking better represent who he is than a 10 game streak. He was always overhyped imo, now he sucks. This roster is a good roster, Allen doesn’t have a sub .900 sv %, we got one player stinking and he’s out most expensive. Same story, different year.

meh... his career performance lagerly speaks for itself. to each their own opinion, but you can't really deny or pretend the statistical realities of his HOF caliber play through 4-5 years of his career. That stretch in particular is as good as any elite goalie has performed, and it was done largely behind a very poorly formed roster. Look at the history books for other HOF caliber goalies, and I think you'd find few that have done as much as he did with as little elite talent on their rosters.

"now he sucks" is a more excessive exaggeration than any of the "hype" he's had.

 

[TheGoalJudge]

No one is going to debate that you need strong goaltending to win. The debate lies in whether you can PREDICT how well your goalie will play, when you need them.

There's so much variance in goaltending that you cannot reliably predict whether it's better to have 10.5M Carey Price or 2M Anton Khudobin.

With that in mind, does it make sense to put your resources in this position? And take 10.5M in resources away from the other players on the team.

The objective of building a hockey team should be to limit shots on goal, full stop. Put your money into THAT. Because you can actually rely on that year in and year out.

And there is actually PROOF of this concept because Carolina beat Toronto with a zamboni driver. But Carolina will never beat Toronto with a zamboni driver as their #1C.

 

[BehindTheTimes]

meh... his career performance lagerly speaks for itself. to each their own opinion, but you can't really deny or pretend the statistical realities of his HOF caliber play through 4-5 years of his career. That stretch in particular is as good as any elite goalie has performed, and it was done largely behind a very poorly formed roster. Look at the history books for other HOF caliber goalies, and I think you'd find few that have done as much as he did with as little elite talent on their rosters.

"now he sucks" is a more excessive exaggeration than any of the "hype" he's had.

I’m not debating his “hof” credentials. Whether he has enough to get in is immaterial to the discussion about his recent season(s) performance. I actually think outside of one year’s performance his dominance is overstated. In that year he has 2 number 1 caliber dmen and he hasn’t repeated before or after. He likely does get in, but I don’t care about that. For the last 2-3 years he’s been completely underwhelming, I know many defenders cling to the past, but it’s 2021 now and things aren’t what they used to be.

I value your objective analysis over many posters on this board, but I feel you are stuck in past years here. He’s not that guy anymore. He can give you stretches like that, but you’re grasping at straws to suggest he can still do that on a routine basis. Other goalies do more with less imo, but we still coddle him like he’s a 20 year old taking over the reigns. He needs to be better and even he knows it. Stop trying to window dress his shitty play.

 

[cave troll]

Can somebody explain me one thing. If it's always defence's fault for Price's stats, how come Allen is on .932 in 7 games while Price is on .888 in 12 games.
They play behind different defences?

 

[BehindTheTimes]

Can somebody explain me one thing. If it's always defence's fault for Price's stats, how come Allen is on .932 in 7 games while Price is on .888 in 12 games.
They play behind different defences?

Apparently they try harder for Allen or some other bs.

 

[salbutera]

Can somebody explain me one thing. If it's always defence's fault for Price's stats, how come Allen is on .932 in 7 games while Price is on .888 in 12 games.
They play behind different defences?

It’s Price’s fault to be letting in avg one beach ball per game and Ds fault for giving up the DZone too easily and running around like chicken without their heads in their zone

 

[Perrah]

The f*** are people going on about everyone blaming the defence and not Price. I havent seen more than one poster, perhaps there is a second, saying the defence is the reason for his play this season. Do they have a bit of blame sure but Price has been bad this year.

Same with the coddling nonsense, people blaming Price for articles sites write or stuff people say on the internet and treat it like Price is out there blaming everyone but himself with a Twitter burner account and feeding journalists stories.

Yeah @BehindTheTimes the team is a finely oiled machine, only Price is holding them back. Thats why they lost to the Sens even with Allen playing well because the team is really good but Price being on the bench was so distracting they decided to not have a shot on net in overtime. Good team those
Habs are. If Petry struggles like he did last coaching change the D will be awful.

 

[Tyson]

Habs will not become a playoff team with a goalie who has clearly declined. Carey Price has built himself a nice career but his struggles are not recent...he has been below average for over 3 years

 

[417]

Burn them red pads

 

[CHfan1]

Ray Ferraro on last night: ‘I don’t know who was more surprised on the 4th Winnipeg goal that it went in; Carey Price or Nate Thompson that it went in. It was a muffin.’

 

[ThisIsMyAlibi]

Goalie declines can be hard and fast. Especially those dependent on superhuman reflexes. the contract was never a smart one. Oof.