Trade: [CAR/BUF] Kelvin Benjamin for 2018 3rd and 7th round picks

[Royal Canuck]

Why.

Our offence is already struggling, so we trade away our best receiver?

Olsen out, Benjamin gone, Keuchly hurt, things are looking bleak.

And I know the Panthers went to the Super Bowl without Benjamin and Cam won MVP, but there were a lot more factors that played into that season.

 

[darko]

I think Benjamin is overrated

 

[Voight]

Seriously, going into the game against Atlanta this weekend, the WR depth chart is:

Devin Funchess
Russell Shepard
Curtis Samuel
Kaelin Clay

Those last two have done virtually nothing in their NFL careers yet, and Shepard is a UDFA journeyman. Olsen is a month away. Unless you're planning on having McCaffrey run even more slot routes, I really don't get this.

Looks like a pre season starting lineup.

They release Steve Smith, draft Benjamin to replace him and then trade him for a meager return.... I don't get it. Are they planning on re-signing Jerricho Cotchery ? How on earth do they expect to make the SB let alone the conference finals with that received group (even with Olsen)

Looks like a give-up move on the surface but obviously they weren't too big on re-signing him. I don't blame them, have you seen the free agent WR contracts lately? Benjamin was probably going to cost them $12 million a year to renew, and I'd pass on that too.

Then keep him for the year and then let him walk - they aren't rebuilding.

 

[What the Faulk]

Why.

Our offence is already struggling, so we trade away our best receiver?

Olsen out, Benjamin gone, Keuchly hurt, things are looking bleak.

And I know the Panthers went to the Super Bowl without Benjamin and Cam won MVP, but there were a lot more factors that played into that season.

Keuchly was on the field against Tampa

 

[Dubi Doo]

Watkins has faced probably 4 of the top 5 secondaries (or at least shadow corners) in Arizona, Jacksonville, Seattle, and Washington. Benjamin has faced uh...Slay and Lattimore, and I'm not sure he was shadowed either game. He's a fine player, but he isn't explosive and he doesn't attack the ball or use his size nearly enough. He may as well be 6'0''.



I still don't agree with it, but Funchess does do better as the X and they desperately needed someone to stretch the field. I just wish they found a different way to make this happen. It's a lot to put on Samuel who's basically not proven anything so far but being injury prone and an inability to catch pitches.

Oh, don't get me wrong, I don't think Benjamin is anything special. It sounds like he's a low-end number one or a very good number two. I like the trade for the Bills, but I'm not sure how much Benjamin is going to help the passing attack. There are a lot of factors as to why the Bills struggle throwing the ball, and I'm not sure how much Benjamin is going to help. Best case scenario- he's productive and allows Matthews and Zay Jones to be freed up and playing in positions to succeed.

As for Watkins, you can look throughout his entire career as a WR in the pros and see he's extremely inconsistent. He'll have a game where he puts up 150 yards, and then he'll follow that with 3-4 games where he only has a couple of catches. Add to the fact that the man is injury prone, is in a contract year, and is a prima donna off the field- it's easy to see why the Bills traded him.

 

[m9]

Oh, don't get me wrong, I don't think Benjamin is anything special. It sounds like he's a low-end number one or a very good number two. I like the trade for the Bills, but I'm not sure how much Benjamin is going to help the passing attack. There are a lot of factors as to why the Bills struggle throwing the ball, and I'm not sure how much Benjamin is going to help. Best case scenario- he's productive and allows Matthews and Zay Jones to be freed up and playing in positions to succeed.

As for Watkins, you can look throughout his entire career as a WR in the pros and see he's extremely inconsistent. He'll have a game where he puts up 150 yards, and then he'll follow that with 3-4 games where he only has a couple of catches. Add to the fact that the man is injury prone, is in a contract year, and is a prima donna off the field- it's easy to see why the Bills traded him.

True Watkins has been inconsistent, but that's life for almost every NFL receiver in a run-based offense. He's been on teams with Lesean McCoy & Todd Gurley, quarterbacked by Tyrod, Goff, and random Bills fodder. It's extremely hard to be a consistent WR on a run-heavy team. That said, Watkins had a decent stretch at the end of 2015 (I think) where he put together 6 games where he was probably a top 2 or 3 producing WR. It's a small flash, but it's there.

It's also a cop-out to say he's in a contract year and that's why you should trade him.. he's only in a contract year because the Bills didn't option him. You can't create your own issue and then blame that same issue.

And what has Watkins really done to be a prima donna?

 

[What the Faulk]

One thing to consider about Benjamin is that, while he is signed for one more year, his cap hit goes up to $8M+ from around $1M+. I've seen speculation that he might have been outright cut if he didn't finish the season strongly.

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

8M is not a bad amount to pay to someone like Benjamin even with his flaws

I really see no reason for this deal at this point for Panthers

Sold low and IMO hurt team which can win division and possibly do damage in playoffs

 

[Brock Boeser Laser Show]

The thing I find curious is that you have a QB who throws a lot of high balls (thus the need for big receivers like Benjamin and Funchess) and you have a GM that wants to build the offense around smaller guys with speed. I think there is a bit of a identity crisis with the panthers offense and it's a shame because they have an all world defensive unit.

 

[Dubi Doo]

True Watkins has been inconsistent, but that's life for almost every NFL receiver in a run-based offense. He's been on teams with Lesean McCoy & Todd Gurley, quarterbacked by Tyrod, Goff, and random Bills fodder. It's extremely hard to be a consistent WR on a run-heavy team. That said, Watkins had a decent stretch at the end of 2015 (I think) where he put together 6 games where he was probably a top 2 or 3 producing WR. It's a small flash, but it's there.

It's also a cop-out to say he's in a contract year and that's why you should trade him.. he's only in a contract year because the Bills didn't option him. You can't create your own issue and then blame that same issue.

And what has Watkins really done to be a prima donna?

The end of 2015 is the only consistency he's shown. I understand your point, but for now Watkins potential is sky-high while his production has been less-than-impressive.

Fair enough.

Prima donna examples:

Complains to the media for more targets while also throwing his QB under the bus:
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/sammy-watkins-to-bills-youre-making-me-look-bad-target-me-more/

Attacks fans for criticizing him, which I understand his frustration but to call fans 'losers' and tell them to go back to their 'little jobs' is such an arrogant thing to say:
http://www.wkbw.com/sports/bills/bills-watkins-goes-on-attack-on-critical-fans

Here's an article with him admitting he was selfish, and that his attitude hurt his relationship with the coaches and more importantly the team:
http://billswire.usatoday.com/2017/10/06/bills-sammy-watkins-selfish-rams/

Hopefully, his attitude has changed with the Rams. It sounds like he at least understood he was being selfish and arrogant in Buffalo. That's a good sign, and obviously people grow, so I'm not going to say he'll always be a prima donna, but his damage in Buffalo was done. The team's relationship with him was hurt, and McDermott and co. rightfully traded him away to get the negative energy away from the locker room.

 

[Voight]

 

[m9]

The end of 2015 is the only consistency he's shown. I understand your point, but for now Watkins potential is sky-high while his production has been less-than-impressive.

Fair enough.

Prima donna examples:

Complains to the media for more targets while also throwing his QB under the bus:
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/sammy-watkins-to-bills-youre-making-me-look-bad-target-me-more/

Attacks fans for criticizing him, which I understand his frustration but to call fans 'losers' and tell them to go back to their 'little jobs' is such an arrogant thing to say:
http://www.wkbw.com/sports/bills/bills-watkins-goes-on-attack-on-critical-fans

Here's an article with him admitting he was selfish, and that his attitude hurt his relationship with the coaches and more importantly the team:
http://billswire.usatoday.com/2017/10/06/bills-sammy-watkins-selfish-rams/

Hopefully, his attitude has changed with the Rams. It sounds like he at least understood he was being selfish and arrogant in Buffalo. That's a good sign, and obviously people grow, so I'm not going to say he'll always be a prima donna, but his damage in Buffalo was done. The team's relationship with him was hurt, and McDermott and co. rightfully traded him away to get the negative energy away from the locker room.

Fair enough. Not perfect, but nothing too crazy.

I cheer for a team in the Steelers that has had their starting two WRs combine to post team meetings to Facebook, attack a water cooler, be suspended for weed, call out a teammate at the draft, demand a trade and call out another WR during the season.. all within the last year. So, could be worse.

 

[Gene Parmesan]

Benjamin is 6'5" but plays like he's 5'10". Pretty much the opposite of Steve Smith Sr. The Panthers will be better off without him.

Watkins is not going to produce with Goff, who is coming back to earth.

 

[What the Faulk]

The thing I find curious is that you have a QB who throws a lot of high balls (thus the need for big receivers like Benjamin and Funchess) and you have a GM that wants to build the offense around smaller guys with speed. I think there is a bit of a identity crisis with the panthers offense and it's a shame because they have an all world defensive unit.

It's not that they want to build around smaller, speedy guys. It's that when Funchess and Benjamin are on the field together, they've been easy to defend because there is no vertical threat.

 

[Gene Parmesan]

Funchess can at least half ass win on his in breaking routes. You're right though. We all laugh at Ginn and his drops but he forced defenses to rotate safeties deep to his side. The Panthers should make a play for T.Y. Hilton in the offseason. He's a legit #1.

 

[Voight]

Benjamin is 6'5" but plays like he's 5'10". Pretty much the opposite of Steve Smith Sr. The Panthers will be better off without him.

Watkins is not going to produce with Goff, who is coming back to earth.

Goff played just fine the week before the bye. Really, his only bad game has been against Seattle/LOB, which isn't anything out of the ordinary.

 

[What the Faulk]

I'd love Hilton, but I don't think it's realistic. Luck should, presumably, be healthy next year and they're a pretty good match. Plus, he does have a rather sizable cap hit that I'm not sure Carolina could afford to pay. They've got to re-sign Norwell and Lotulelei, maybe Peppers, a backup QB, and TE depth. They're at 157M already allocated. It'd be pretty tight. I think Benjamin's raise is one reason they moved on from him.

 

[Gene Parmesan]

Goff played just fine the week before the bye. Really, his only bad game has been against Seattle/LOB, which isn't anything out of the ordinary.

No he really hasn't played that hot for a few weeks. Ya'll take counting stats at face value too often.

 

[Memento]

No he really hasn't played that hot for a few weeks. Ya'll take counting stats at face value too often.

I've watched every Rams game (being a fan and all). Goff has played extremely well this season. Yes, Gurley is the focal point of the offense, but Goff has done a great job maneuvering the pocket, makes smart decisions with the ball, and he's only had one bad game (the Seahawks).

 

[MMC]

 

[InjuredChoker]

...I should’ve never went to Carolina. Truly, I just think Carolina was bad for me. It was a bad fit from the get-go. If you would’ve put me with any other quarterback, let’s be real, you know what I’m saying? Any other accurate quarterback like Rodgers or Eli Manning or Big Ben — anybody! — quarterbacks with knowledge, that know how to place a ball and give you a better chance to catch the ball. It just felt like I wasn’t in that position.

...

You were the 28th overall draft choice in 2014 but were traded for third- and seventh-round draft choices last year. How does that sit with you?
I guess they … I mean, I don’t really care, you know what I’m saying? I’m really trying to get past the past. It was so much more that I can tell you that was going on on that team. But I’m happy to be out there. Just know that.

trying not to read too much into these but.. he doesn't seem very articulate (or smart) so maybe he didn't intend to say what he did but not exactly great look either to blame others like that and throw your QB under the bus.. he also complains about only lining up at particular spot and his role being taking guys away from the play... but he was in top 10 in targets leaguewide as a rookie and almost cracked top 20 in '16 despite clearly playing at subpar level. and his career catch rate is below 60%.

 

[TNT87]

Manning is an accurate passer?

 

[Gene Parmesan]

This dude has been carried by QB's since high school.

 

[What the Faulk]

Yeah this is a bad look. Cam loved him, and Kelvin knows the hype is dying so he threw Cam under the bus to save himself. Dude has size as his only strength but plays like he's 5'11". Once teams figured it out no one was scared.

 

[Gene Parmesan]

KB wasn't even considered a draft prospect until Jameis was the starter.