Captain Dion a -6

[ACC1224]

Plus/minus discussions are one of the quickest ways of determining the clued in from the clueless.

 

[Jerkini]

Here we go again with the Reimer criticism.

Reimer played great on Saturday behind a team with swiss cheese defence that got outshot 41-17. He let in four goals that I would argue he had no chance on any one of them.

Give Reimer a break. There isn't a goalie in the NHL that would have won that game for the Leafs on Saturday.

I don't think I can agree to that.

 

[Anthrax442]

Gunny as an average D, a 3-5 plug on any team.

 

[Eb]

I don't think I can agree to that.

We will never know, but there's no way a goalie could have stolen that game. The amount of quality scoring chances NYR got, pucks had to be going in.

If you watched the game, Reimer played sound in net.

 

[Jihadi Flames Fan]

I think you guys are playing him too much. 32 minutes? There are only a select few defencemen in the league that can play that many minutes. Phaneuf isn't one of them. The more you play Phaneuf, the more opportunities you give him to screw up. Keep him under 25 minutes.

 

[gabeliscious]

30+ minutes is too much for any defenseman in the nhl to play. he is also being paired with an ahl defenseman.

i have a couple of questions/ concerns:

1. i dont understand how kostka is playing on the top pairing on an nhl team in his rookie season. any other rookie would be starting at the bottom and working his way up what makes kostka any different? i know he is older then some of the other defenseman but its actually embaressing.

2. if phaneuf is playing 30 + mins it is because carlyle doesnt feel comfortable putting out his other defenseman. if thats the case then nonis needs to get on this asap.

3. carlyle is risking injury to phaneuf playing him so much this early into a shortened season. people are still trying to get in game shape and carlyle is leaning on phaneuf like it is the cup finals.


im not sure what the issue is with gunnarson but i really hope carlyle puts the defense back to something like


phaneuf-gunnarson
gardiner-franson
liles-komisarek
kostka

pp1 = phaneuf-gardiner
pp2 = liles - franson
pk1 = phaneuf-gunnarson
pk2 = gardiner-komisarek

 

[Bomber0104]

I think you guys are playing him too much. 32 minutes? There are only a select few defencemen in the league that can play that many minutes. Phaneuf isn't one of them. The more you play Phaneuf, the more opportunities you give him to screw up. Keep him under 25 minutes.

Big reason why Phaneuf has the most goals scored against him while he's on the ice:

1. He's on the ice too much
2. He's terrible defensively

 

[number72]

Carlyle said it best: Phaneuf can't handle 30 minutes [like other elite defenseman].

 

[jake77]

Carlyle said it best: Phaneuf can't handle 30 minutes [like other elite defenseman].

Dion never was an 'elite defenseman'. He'd still be in Calgary if he were. On a good team Dion is a 4 or 5. He's the Leafs best defenseman which doesn't say a lot for the rest of the Dmen. If you can get your head around the fact of Dion's positioning on a good team then you can actually see where the Leafs real problems lie. It's sure not goaltending but rather a group of defensemen who are not up to NHL standards.

 

[Billy6]

I don't think I can agree to that.

Your expectations for Reimer are way too high my friend.

They got outshot 41 - 17 and he didn't let in a single soft goal. He gave them a chance to win that his teammates didn't take advantage of.

You can't ask for much more than that from your goaltender.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

Dion never was an 'elite defenseman'. He'd still be in Calgary if he were. On a good team Dion is a 4 or 5. He's the Leafs best defenseman which doesn't say a lot for the rest of the Dmen. If you can get your head around the fact of Dion's positioning on a good team then you can actually see where the Leafs real problems lie. It's sure not goaltending but rather a group of defensemen who are not up to NHL standards.

Lol. I'm curious, which teams would Dion Phaneuf be a #4 or 5 on?

 

[MajorityRules*]

Lol. I'm curious, which teams would Dion Phaneuf be a #4 or 5 on?

So am I but I have my doubts you're going to get an answer.

 

[jake77]

So am I but I have my doubts you're going to get an answer.

Here's 8. If you want more let me know.
Bruins
Canucks
Kings
Rangers
Penguins
Blackhawks
Sharks
Blues

 

[SteveV*]

Minus 6 now

 

[TMLife*]

Here's 8. If you want more let me know.
Bruins
Canucks
Kings
Rangers
Penguins
Blackhawks
Sharks
Blues

You're going to have to list the 4 dmen on all those teams better than dion at this moment in time

 

[Pi]

Here's 8. If you want more let me know.
Bruins...I can see one D better than Phaneuf: Chara. Seidenberg was a pylon that is lucky to play on a tough Bruins team.
Canucks...who? I put each and every D on the Canucks on the same level as Phaneuf. Hamhuis, Garrison, Edler and Bieksa aren't any better than Phaneuf.
Kings...Besides Doughty who do you think is better than Phaneuf on that team?
Rangers...Again there is no clear #1 and their goalie is Henrik Lundqvist...
Penguins..The same D that sucked last year and only has one D better than Phaneuf?
Blackhawks...Keith is better than Phaneuf, Seabrook is on Phaneuf's level, nobody else is better.
Sharks...No. Dan Boyle is the only D that is better.
Blues...Pietrangelo is the only guy better

There.. I just proved it. Dion Phaneuf is a middle of the pack #1D or if you hate him, you can say he's a top pairing D.

Why do people hate Phaneuf so much. I don't get it.

Each and every D of Phaneuf's calibre has a partner that is very dependable. I don't know about you but Dion Phaneuf has played with Luke Schenn at times, Beauchemin, Komisarek, Gunnarsson, Liles, Gardiner, and now Kostka.

That is just too much shuffling. I can't wait till Rielly is playing with him.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

Here's 8. If you want more let me know.
Bruins
Canucks
Kings
Rangers
Penguins
Blackhawks
Sharks
Blues

Canucks: #1 (Bieksa, Edler, Hamhuis)
Kings: Doughty, #2
Rangers: #1 (Staal, Girardi, Del Zotto, McDonaugh)
Penguins: Letang, #2
Chicago: Seabrook, Keith, #3
San Jose: Boyle, #2
St. Louis: Pietrangelo, #2

Your favorite team; Bruins: Chara, #2...

Now mosey back on over to that board. Troll.

 

[Tak7]

The truth about Phaneuf is this:

He's not a number 1 guy. He's not a #1 Dman in the same caliber as a Chara or a Pietrangelo or a Letang. He's not. You aren't winning with Dion as your top guy.

He's also so much better than a second pairing blue liner. He's good enough to be a top 2, but I think the only way he does that is if he has a player that perfectly compliments him (much like most top Dmen in the league).

 

[The Apologist]

The truth about Phaneuf is this:

He's not a number 1 guy. He's not a #1 Dman in the same caliber as a Chara or a Pietrangelo or a Letang. He's not. You aren't winning with Dion as your top guy.

He's also so much better than a second pairing blue liner. He's good enough to be a top 2, but I think the only way he does that is if he has a player that perfectly compliments him (much like most top Dmen in the league).

That's an opinion, not the truth. The truth is that Dion is very much a #1.

 

[The Missing Piece]

They hit the nail on the head last night when they said Dion has to start hitting the net.

I can't believe how many big slappers he rifled wide. Its gotta be on net, even if it isn't that hard maybe we get a rebound you never know. I don't think he really deserves to start every PP. I think Liles is a better QB, heck Liles Kostka would suit me just fine.

 

[Tak7]

They hit the nail on the head last night when they said Dion has to start hitting the net.

I can't believe how many big slappers he rifled wide. Its gotta be on net, even if it isn't that hard maybe we get a rebound you never know. I don't think he really deserves to start every PP. I think Liles is a better QB, heck Liles Kostka would suit me just fine.

The problem that Carlyle has with his powerplay, is that they practice in 5 man units.

Kostka (Liles on 5 on 3s) -Phaneuf / Kessel-Bozak-JvR

&

Liles - Franson / Kulemin - Grabo - Kadri

He's hesitant to start mixing and matching because of the PP time they've spent practicing.

The Kessel line has looked OK on the powerplay (scored last night, had chances), but the Liles-Franson partnership looks SO MUCH better on the point than Phaneuf and Kostka.

Randy has to be willing to switch it up a little bit. My guess is we may see lots of chopping and changing on the PP if it struggles during the Boston game.

1 - Liles back up on the first unit.

2 - Hamilton on the PP for a net presence

 

[Tak7]

That's an opinion, not the truth. The truth is that Dion is very much a #1.

Would you be saying that if Phaneuf was playing for anybody other than your beloved Leafs?

I'm not so sure you would be.

 

[ITM]

Dion never was an 'elite defenseman'. He'd still be in Calgary if he were. On a good team Dion is a 4 or 5. He's the Leafs best defenseman which doesn't say a lot for the rest of the Dmen. If you can get your head around the fact of Dion's positioning on a good team then you can actually see where the Leafs real problems lie. It's sure not goaltending but rather a group of defensemen who are not up to NHL standards.

Does the N stand for Norwegian?

Dion is a number 1 on 60% of the teams and a 2 on all of them. The "trick" wih Phaneuf is providing him with a defensively sound partner...Because he can rush the puck, he can certainly shoot it and is unquestionably a weapon on the powerplay. The problem as with Sundin (save for Mogilny), Kessel and Phaneuf is that they're seldom supported by the appropriate cast.

Perhaps that changes in the coming seasons. But Dion a 4/5?

Come on...

 

[The Missing Piece]

The problem that Carlyle has with his powerplay, is that they practice in 5 man units.

Kostka (Liles on 5 on 3s) -Phaneuf / Kessel-Bozak-JvR

&

Liles - Franson / Kulemin - Grabo - Kadri

He's hesitant to start mixing and matching because of the PP time they've spent practicing.

The Kessel line has looked OK on the powerplay (scored last night, had chances), but the Liles-Franson partnership looks SO MUCH better on the point than Phaneuf and Kostka.

Randy has to be willing to switch it up a little bit. My guess is we may see lots of chopping and changing on the PP if it struggles during the Boston game.

1 - Liles back up on the first unit.

2 - Hamilton on the PP for a net presence

I would be just fine with that. Ultimately, it doesn't really matter how much a unit has practised, if it doesn't produce it's not working and a change needs to happen. I would like to leave the 3 forwards consistent and just mix up the D.

Phaneuf has all that PP time and nothing to show for it.

 

[Mat Fratthouse]

Dion plays big minutes each night vs the top lines of the NHL on a team thats trying to find their identity defensively. worrying about his +/- this early is pointless and shows we have nothing better to talk about.