Speculation: Caps General Discussion (Coaching/FAs/Cap/Lines etc) - 2021 "Season" Pt. 1

[CapitalsCupReality]

I don’t think we’ll miss (the playoffs).

 

[SpinningEdge]

Can someone tell me how the mcmichael/expansion thing works? Is he protected no matter what since this year he’s a rookie - or is it the over 9 games he is eligible to be picked/we’d have to protect him?

The kid could be a huge spark, obviously. He’s phenomenal and will be a good player. I just don’t know if they can bring him up or not bc of expansion rules? IF he can come up and be protected no matter what - I’d love to have him up sooner than later if he keeps dominating ahl. However, if he would have to be one of our 7 protected forwards, then it gets tricky.

 

[TheLegendOfPatPeake]

I’ll entertain the doom and gloom when it’s time to doom and gloom. As it stands this is one of the better constructed rosters in the NHL this year and the team is certainly capable of making a deep run if they play like able to. They’re also capable of missing the playoffs or getting bounced early, so who knows.

This year was always going to be tough as there are five teams who have been playoff regulars recently along with two young and improving teams in the Rangers and Devils competing for four playoff spots. It’s the toughest division in the NHL and it’s not particularly close. And to add to that, they’ve faced a ton of adversity and roster absences but are still holding down a playoff spot. We shall see.

I don’t see this as doom and gloom. It’s more an evidence based approach at evaluation and having realistic expectations.

Father Time always wins and it appears he is starting to take his toll. That doesn’t mean Ovi is washed up or any other player on the team. It just means what it is, consistency becomes more difficult as you age.

Could they still make the playoffs? Absolutely. Could they win the Eastern Conference? Absolutely. Could they win the cup? Absolutely. Are they likely to go far? Maybe.

As you said, only time will tell.

Regardless, whatever happens they need to start to inject youth into the line-up. It will suck losing some fan favorites in the near future but they need some younger legs.

 

[Melkor]

Are people really gonna be okay with it if Ovechkin gets a 5x11m contract?

Don't get me wrong, he deserves it for what he means to the team. And if there were no cap, I wouldn't care if he was making 100 million a year.

But seeing how bad this team is now and just imagining how bad it will be with a 5x11m Ovechkin contract, it's not a playoff team.

I personally am still not okay with Backstrom's contract, with term rather than cap hit. Ovechkin's one gonna be a disaster but I'm having a hard time seeing Leonsis playing hardball with him and seeking a fair deal. They will let him rob themselves and call it a day as a playoff team.

 

[Misery74]

I personally am still not okay with Backstrom's contract, with term rather than cap hit. Ovechkin's one gonna be a disaster but I'm having a hard time seeing Leonsis playing hardball with him and seeking a fair deal. They will let him rob themselves and call it a day as a playoff team.

If this team wants to keep its window open longer, Ovechkin needs to play ball. I’m hoping he takes $500k more than Backstrom.

Either that, or we need to shed ourselves of all these middling vets.

 

[HecticGlow]

Did Scott Murray crap on you or one of yours in a jr. goalie camp? Lol...Really starting to wonder with you lol...

Vanny is what he is...a good AHL goalie playing up, but whatever.

I don’t particularly care about any coach, but the theme of blaming player failures on coach after coach after coach, be it HC, assistant, position coach whatever...has been a consistent thing in the Ovechkin era.

I guess it SM’s turn in the season we have our worst tandem in the past 10 years...

While I agree that players ultimately field the most responsibility for what they do on the ice, goaltending coaches have far more to do with teaching, adjusting and troubleshooting goaltenders’ technical and athletic tendencies, techniques and approaches than, say, the team’s HC does with the skaters. Scott Murray’s assessment is that Vanecek is an NHL backup goaltender, who he expects him to continue to improve further and further, and doesn’t want to put set a ceiling. If that’s the case, publicly blaming VV’s poor rebound control on equipment and saying VV needs to play so there’s no rebound at all, rather than find a way of addressing it, is a peculiar occurrence. As much because it suggests the player isn’t as fault, as well as Murray.

I just find that an odd take, and I wonder if his words when interviewed maybe didn’t convey the full message he’d actually want to give?

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

While I agree that players ultimately field the most responsibility for what they do on the ice, goaltending coaches have far more to do with teaching, adjusting and troubleshooting goaltenders’ technical and athletic tendencies, techniques and approaches than, say, the team’s HC does with the skaters. Scott Murray’s assessment is that Vanecek is an NHL backup goaltender, who he expects him to continue to improve further and further, and doesn’t want to put set a ceiling. If that’s the case, publicly blaming VV’s poor rebound control on equipment and saying VV needs to play so there’s no rebound at all, rather than find a way of addressing it, is a peculiar occurrence. As much because it suggests the player isn’t as fault, as well as Murray.

I just find that an odd take, and I wonder if his words when interviewed maybe didn’t convey the full message he’d actually want to give?

Any career arc-type proclamations ANY coach makes about a players ceiling and what not should be chalked up to what those statements are....coaching 101-speak to motivate and not undercut a player’s confidence.

I’m in no way discounting that coaching matters. But, I find it amusing when we have out worst tandem in forever, suddenly it’s now the position coach. Previously it was his fault Holtby started to show his age.

maybe it’s an odd take because he’s being honest? What if Vanny backed up those comments about the equipment? Are we still targeting Murray?

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

I'd rather shed some of the plodding bottom sixers who are all more or less the same player rather than nickel and dime Ovechkin and Backstrom or complain about their contract. Sheary is probably their best offensive threat in the bottom six outside of Eller and he's making $735k. There's no reason at all to have Panik, Hagelin, and Hathaway signed for a combined $7M through 2023; to me that's a failure on the scouting department that you don't have guys you can bring up from Hershey to fill some of those grinder / PK roles. With the realities of the Covid salary cap you're going to see really good players having to take one year or short term prove it deals to bridge them to FA or guys like Sheary squeezed into making the vet minimum (or close to it) and it sucks that we're talking about Ovechkin's contract potentially hamstringing them when it's really all of the term that BMac handed out to the bottom six because grit and veteran leadership.

I'm also increasingly leaning towards thinking we need to keep Oshie. He is so far and away better than anyone else at board work, winning puck battles, and playing in tight space. Wilson is getting there but Oshie is the gold standard. Kuznetsov and Vrana are warm butter soft and allergic to competing when there's contact and without Oshie or Wilson they'd never have the puck.

 

[crab]

I'd rather shed some of the plodding bottom sixers who are all more or less the same player rather than nickel and dime Ovechkin and Backstrom or complain about their contract. Sheary is probably their best offensive threat in the bottom six outside of Eller and he's making $735k. There's no reason at all to have Panik, Hagelin, and Hathaway signed for a combined $7M through 2023; to me that's a failure on the scouting department that you don't have guys you can bring up from Hershey to fill some of those grinder / PK roles. With the realities of the Covid salary cap you're going to see really good players having to take one year or short term prove it deals to bridge them to FA or guys like Sheary squeezed into making the vet minimum (or close to it) and it sucks that we're talking about Ovechkin's contract potentially hamstringing them when it's really all of the term that BMac handed out to the bottom six because grit and veteran leadership.

I'm also increasingly leaning towards thinking we need to keep Oshie. He is so far and away better than anyone else at board work, winning puck battles, and playing in tight space. Wilson is getting there but Oshie is the gold standard. Kuznetsov and Vrana are warm butter soft and allergic to competing when there's contact and without Oshie or Wilson they'd never have the puck.

My favourite is when Kuznetsov has a 50/50 chance at a puck and he just coasts instead, letting the opposing player get the puck unchallenged. He usually then puts a light stick on shin pad of the other player sending him on his way.

 

[Melkor]

If this team wants to keep its window open longer, Ovechkin needs to play ball. I’m hoping he takes $500k more than Backstrom.

Either that, or we need to shed ourselves of all these middling vets.

Had Maclellan been worried about that he wouldn't have signed that sorry ass bunch on the same 4 year contracts overpaying to each and every one of them both in money and term. I'd be curious how he's gonna solve these issues he created for himself.

 

[895]

I'd rather shed some of the plodding bottom sixers who are all more or less the same player rather than nickel and dime Ovechkin and Backstrom or complain about their contract.

But that's something GMBM should be doing anyway.

No matter how you slice it, Ovechkin at 5x11m is bad.

 

[traparatus]

I'd rather shed some of the plodding bottom sixers who are all more or less the same player rather than nickel and dime Ovechkin and Backstrom or complain about their contract. Sheary is probably their best offensive threat in the bottom six outside of Eller and he's making $735k. There's no reason at all to have Panik, Hagelin, and Hathaway signed for a combined $7M through 2023; to me that's a failure on the scouting department that you don't have guys you can bring up from Hershey to fill some of those grinder / PK roles. With the realities of the Covid salary cap you're going to see really good players having to take one year or short term prove it deals to bridge them to FA or guys like Sheary squeezed into making the vet minimum (or close to it) and it sucks that we're talking about Ovechkin's contract potentially hamstringing them when it's really all of the term that BMac handed out to the bottom six because grit and veteran leadership.

I'm also increasingly leaning towards thinking we need to keep Oshie. He is so far and away better than anyone else at board work, winning puck battles, and playing in tight space. Wilson is getting there but Oshie is the gold standard. Kuznetsov and Vrana are warm butter soft and allergic to competing when there's contact and without Oshie or Wilson they'd never have the puck.

Agreed, I don't think they have the personnel to replace Oshie right now. It must be so difficult to play with Vrana or Kuznetsov. You have to do all of their board work and 1-on-1 battles. Must be exhausting.

 

[g00n]

Kuzy is frustrating to watch because he plays low percentage hockey. Nine times out of ten when given the chance he'll choose to do something flashy or ill-advised. The result is a turnover or a lost opportunity or some other shift in momentum or possession.

This is the guy on the basketball court who makes the behind the back pass for no reason. Or who tries a self-pass off the backboard on a breakaway in a close game. In football it's the receiver who only runs deep routes and attempts one-handed catches on routine throws. Or a baseball player that swings at just about everything and hot dogs in the field.

Players like this only have two successful roles: either as the top guy on a rebuilding team so nobody really cares about losses, or as a role player on an otherwise super-solid team that plays good fundamental hockey.

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

Think this will be Kuzy's last year in DC if he doesn't pick it up.

 

[Hivemind]

hfboarss are fun. So you ignore the idea and pick one line from my long post, make your own agenda out of it and bomb away.

did i say we should model our franchise by Blue Jackets? Saying i like what they are doing now, and what they are aiming for, is not saying we should take the playbook from 2013 Blue Jackets.

its not also fair to compare our talentpool with theirs. We did luck our hands on Ovie and Backs by sucking bad for a long time, and weve had over 20 years of practising more than them.

What i said, again, is that i like how and where they have been taking their culture lately. Again, i did not say that CBJ model is the total receipt for success and we should copy them to the letter.

what you are really arguing about is that i asked for characters and culture that takes responsibility. You disagree with that?

We "lucked into" Ovie by winning the draft lottery, sure. But Backstrom was a 4th overall pick. Blue Jackets have had plenty of similar picks. They didn't get a Nicklas Backstrom, they got Ryan Murray (2nd), Pierre-Luc Dubois (3rd), Nikita Filatov (6th), Ryan Johansen (4th), Derrick Brassard (6th), and Gilbert Brule (6th). Let's not pretend the Capitals have had an advantage in terms of where they've been drafting compared to the Jackets. The Jackets have sucked bad for an even longer time than the Capitals firesale years, and the Jackets have hired hockey professionals too. The Capitals are just better at it, with better scouts and better people leading their drafts. The Capitals get players like Carlson, Kuznetsov, and Vrana from the later portions of the first round, while the Blue Jackets get Mark Dano and Kerby Rychel.

You want "their culture?" What you're really asking for is Torts' hard ass coaching style, which hasn't won them (or anyone else) much of anything in 15 years. And it has driven away players like PLD and Panarin. Maybe you can spin it that there's something coming from Keklainen that you view as enviable. But Jarmo has been involved with one contract dispute and trade request after another. He fractured the relationship with Josh Anderson and eventually traded him to Montreal.

I really don't see what's so enviable about Columbus in your eyes, aside of the narrative about "taking responsibility" that you've constructed for yourself.

 

[Calicaps]

Think this will be Kuzy's last year in DC if he doesn't pick it up.

I am ok with this.

 

[Roshi]

We "lucked into" Ovie by winning the draft lottery, sure. But Backstrom was a 4th overall pick. Blue Jackets have had plenty of similar picks. They didn't get a Nicklas Backstrom, they got Ryan Murray (2nd), Pierre-Luc Dubois (3rd), Nikita Filatov (6th), Ryan Johansen (4th), Derrick Brassard (6th), and Gilbert Brule (6th). Let's not pretend the Capitals have had an advantage in terms of where they've been drafting compared to the Jackets. The Jackets have sucked bad for an even longer time than the Capitals firesale years, and the Jackets have hired hockey professionals too. The Capitals are just better at it, with better scouts and better people leading their drafts. The Capitals get players like Carlson, Kuznetsov, and Vrana from the later portions of the first round, while the Blue Jackets get Mark Dano and Kerby Rychel.

You want "their culture?" What you're really asking for is Torts' hard ass coaching style, which hasn't won them (or anyone else) much of anything in 15 years. And it has driven away players like PLD and Panarin. Maybe you can spin it that there's something coming from Keklainen that you view as enviable. But Jarmo has been involved with one contract dispute and trade request after another. He fractured the relationship with Josh Anderson and eventually traded him to Montreal.

I really don't see what's so enviable about Columbus in your eyes, aside of the narrative about "taking responsibility" that you've constructed for yourself.

you are still going with the Blue Jackets and ignoring the whole point i had to use them for. I like a culture where everyone is hold responsible.

i mentioned CBJ as an example, not as an model. I like that they dont go easy on passengers, or personnel who dont care. I dont envy them and im not trying to sell them as a success story. I was not talking about their historical success, or even their success today. They had terrible drafting early on, that costed them a decade. They have done costly mistakes after that too.

I dont really want to discuss about cbj with you at all and im just not getting why you have the need to bash them. You handpicked that one line and keep going at it.

I mean, where are you trying to get with this? Are you trying to educate me how we have homegrown superstars, or that CBJ hasnt had much of success? You dont need to do that, im well aware.

If you disagree with the point of trying to build a culture with responsibility, thats fine, but rather explain why you think its a bad idea than bash CBJ.

 

[Ridley Simon]

I'd rather shed some of the plodding bottom sixers who are all more or less the same player rather than nickel and dime Ovechkin and Backstrom or complain about their contract. Sheary is probably their best offensive threat in the bottom six outside of Eller and he's making $735k. There's no reason at all to have Panik, Hagelin, and Hathaway signed for a combined $7M through 2023; to me that's a failure on the scouting department that you don't have guys you can bring up from Hershey to fill some of those grinder / PK roles. With the realities of the Covid salary cap you're going to see really good players having to take one year or short term prove it deals to bridge them to FA or guys like Sheary squeezed into making the vet minimum (or close to it) and it sucks that we're talking about Ovechkin's contract potentially hamstringing them when it's really all of the term that BMac handed out to the bottom six because grit and veteran leadership.

I'm also increasingly leaning towards thinking we need to keep Oshie. He is so far and away better than anyone else at board work, winning puck battles, and playing in tight space. Wilson is getting there but Oshie is the gold standard. Kuznetsov and Vrana are warm butter soft and allergic to competing when there's contact and without Oshie or Wilson they'd never have the puck.

In fairness, when GMBM gave out those contracts, COVID didn’t exist and the cap was supposed to be far higher. Sure, hindsight is 20/20, but a LOT has changed since those were doled out.

like...everything has changed.

and Kuznetsov’s 8m/per is more damning than anything right now. Along w Orlov’s 5m/per. Those 2 start to play up to their values, the Caps will be fine.

 

[Ridley Simon]

Had Maclellan been worried about that he wouldn't have signed that sorry ass bunch on the same 4 year contracts overpaying to each and every one of them both in money and term. I'd be curious how he's gonna solve these issues he created for himself.

See above post from me

 

[Ridley Simon]

you are still going with the Blue Jackets and ignoring the whole point i had to use them for. I like a culture where everyone is hold responsible.

i mentioned CBJ as an example, not as an model. I like that they dont go easy on passengers, or personnel who dont care. I dont envy them and im not trying to sell them as a success story. I was not talking about their historical success, or even their success today. They had terrible drafting early on, that costed them a decade. They have done costly mistakes after that too.

I dont really want to discuss about cbj with you at all and im just not getting why you have the need to bash them. You handpicked that one line and keep going at it.

I mean, where are you trying to get with this? Are you trying to educate me how we have homegrown superstars, or that CBJ hasnt had much of success? You dont need to do that, im well aware.

If you disagree with the point of trying to build a culture with responsibility, thats fine, but rather explain why you think its a bad idea than bash CBJ.

Let it go bud. You are arguing with someone that will never see the other side of the discussion, regardless of context. It’s useless.

Try pissing into the wind instead. Less messy and it’s over more quickly (plus you will at least feel some sense of relief?)

 

[Ovechkins Wodka]

In fairness, when GMBM gave out those contracts, COVID didn’t exist and the cap was supposed to be far higher. Sure, hindsight is 20/20, but a LOT has changed since those were doled out.

like...everything has changed.

and Kuznetsov’s 8m/per is more damning than anything right now. Along w Orlov’s 5m/per. Those 2 start to play up to their values, the Caps will be fine.

All the Covid Caps are having a rough start of the season. Make of it what you want

 

[Ridley Simon]

All the Covid Caps are having a rough start of the season. Make of it what you want

True. Altho Ovechkin is doing ok, points wise. Plus he and Orlov allegedly have the antibodies?

meh, what do I know ?

 

[pman25]

But that's something GMBM should be doing anyway.

No matter how you slice it, Ovechkin at 5x11m is bad.

Not really. It’s Alex Ovechkin we’re talking about. You give him what he wants while he pursues the all time NHL goals record. He’s the face of the franchise.

it’s not like the window is gonna be open that much longer any way. Might as well have a reason to follow the team when we start to suck more. It’s not like we have a a farm system stacked with talent where we could retool in a year.

pay Ovi, watch him break records, hope we make the playoffs. That’s the 5 year plan

 

[Ridley Simon]

Im not so sure.

I’d deal Kuznetsov when the time is right (meaning, when it’s the right offer). That may spur things to a different spot.

 

[txpd]

No matter how you slice it, Ovechkin at 5x11m is bad.

and your alternative is?