Speculation: Caps General Discussion (Coaching/FAs/Cap/Lines etc) - 2021 Regular Season Part 2

[Langway]

You'd hope Mantha is a lot more than just an early stage rebuild type stopgap. The way things are headed IMO you'd have to think about trading him for an actual starting goaltender should the stars somehow align. Not sure of potential scenarios for that. His point totals have been fine under the circumstances this season but absent more of a regular pulse it's hard to move him off of potential flip status. He's slick and maybe with more experience around him things would click more regularly but in terms of game impact he needs to prove it. At that salary level they can't afford for him to just be some more potential than results type X factor, albeit with better defense than those predecessors.

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

Eller, Hathaway, Dowd, and Hagelin have a combined 1 goal and 5 points in 37 total games. Hathaway and Hagelin haven't registered a single point. Dowd has the one goal and no other points. Eller has four points. They simply have to be better if this team is going to survive the injuries they currently have. Do not give a single shit about their veteran grittiness or their defensive prowess if they can't contribute at all offensively. If Ovechkin wasn't a mutant -- he's scored 28% of this team's goals at age 36 -- they'd be in the hurt locker big time.

On the flip side, Leason has looked better than I thought he would.

 

[amjay13]

Good grief, they ended last year severely banged up as well. Really want to see what this team can be at full strength but that might be months away. Regarding the goaltending situation, I don't know how but find a way to get John Gibson out of Anaheim.

 

[Misery74]

Good grief, they ended last year severely banged up as well. Really want to see what this team can be at full strength but that might be months away. Regarding the goaltending situation, I don't know how but find a way to get John Gibson out of Anaheim.

We don’t have any cap space for Gibson, or anyone really. Unless we dump Hagelin and Schultz.

If we do anything, it would be coaxing Rask out of retirement, on a cheap, Lundqvist type deal.

 

[txpd]

A couple of questions.

1. Would you rather they win the games right now or play the kids? Lets stipulate that we all want both, but if you had to choose?

2. What is Vanecek's sv% and gaa at 5 on 5? What is Vanecek's sv% and gaa in regulation? I am not sure where to look. Thanks in advance

 

[zappa4ever]

Until we know Timelines on NB19, Oshie and Martha we'll have to wait and see about a stopgap
Looking forward to see if the New Guns will show what they got; McMic, Leason, Jimi and Protas look like the Top-4 on the depth chart (Lavi already said Jimi's in for PHI and Protas just got recalled), then I guess Malenstyn is next in line

Let's see how we do the next few games before HF Caps nation goes into full freakout mode

 

[TheLegendOfPatPeake]

A couple of questions.

1. Would you rather they win the games right now or play the kids? Lets stipulate that we all want both, but if you had to choose?

2. What is Vanecek's sv% and gaa at 5 on 5? What is Vanecek's sv% and gaa in regulation? I am not sure where to look. Thanks in advance

Win now. The core ain’t getting any younger or healthier.

 

[tenken00]

Until we know Timelines on NB19, Oshie and Martha we'll have to wait and see about a stopgap
Looking forward to see if the New Guns will show what they got; McMic, Leason, Jimi and Protas look like the Top-4 on the depth chart (Lavi already said Jimi's in for PHI and Protas just got recalled), then I guess Malenstyn is next in line

Let's see how we do the next few games before HF Caps nation goes into full freakout mode

I like that. The NEW GUNS

 

[TheLegendOfPatPeake]

I like that. The NEW GUNS

These ain’t the young guns of the past unfortunately. They aren’t of that caliber.

 

[twabby]

A couple of questions.

1. Would you rather they win the games right now or play the kids? Lets stipulate that we all want both, but if you had to choose?

2. What is Vanecek's sv% and gaa at 5 on 5? What is Vanecek's sv% and gaa in regulation? I am not sure where to look. Thanks in advance

Vanecek is at a .946 save percentage at 5v5, and is more than 2 points over his expected fenwick save percentage. He's been really good at 5v5.

He's .919 overall in regulation, which normally would be just dandy.

He's at .400 (yes, .400) in 3v3 situations.

Data is from here:

Evolving-Hockey.com | Standard Goalie Stats

 

[usiel]

So which non-Connor McMichael player is going to slide into the top 2 power play units now that Mantha is injured?

I'm going with Carl Hagelin.

 

[txpd]

Vanecek is at a .946 save percentage at 5v5, and is more than 2 points over his expected fenwick save percentage. He's been really good at 5v5.

He's .919 overall in regulation, which normally would be just dandy.

He's at .400 (yes, .400) in 3v3 situations.

Data is from here:

Evolving-Hockey.com | Standard Goalie Stats

Thanks. Its been my impression that his numbers have been killed by the 3 on 3 OT goals and to a lesser extent the penalty kill. The PK with new players is going thru growing pains. There's no way around it.

.946 at 5 on 5 proves to me he is playing just fine

 

[txpd]

Win now. The core ain’t getting any younger or healthier.

Thanks.

 

[tenken00]

These ain’t the young guns of the past unfortunately. They aren’t of that caliber.

.22's can still go pew pew pew!

 

[Hivemind]

This is a ridiculous take. Mantha is 27; he's not one of our old guys. You think playing McMichael more prevents this injury?

It was a post poking fun at the fact that despite we have "the youngest Caps team in forever," that Lavi is only icing the young guys the bare minimum. The Caps are doing their best to force his hand, but he finds a way to give all the minutes to Eller and Hagelin and Hathaway instead.

 

[Midnight Judges]

Eller, Hathaway, Dowd, and Hagelin have a combined 1 goal and 5 points in 37 total games. Hathaway and Hagelin haven't registered a single point. Dowd has the one goal and no other points. Eller has four points. They simply have to be better if this team is going to survive the injuries they currently have. Do not give a single shit about their veteran grittiness or their defensive prowess if they can't contribute at all offensively. If Ovechkin wasn't a mutant -- he's scored 28% of this team's goals at age 36 -- they'd be in the hurt locker big time.

On the flip side, Leason has looked better than I thought he would.

Eller is .4 PPG right now - not ideal for a guy who has been the 2C. He plays solid defense though.

Dowd will get his if he's healthy IMO.

Hathaway and Hagelin are offensive black holes. They're very good defensively at least, but man, it's not pretty in the offensive zone.

 

[HTFN]

A couple of questions.

1. Would you rather they win the games right now or play the kids? Lets stipulate that we all want both, but if you had to choose?

2. What is Vanecek's sv% and gaa at 5 on 5? What is Vanecek's sv% and gaa in regulation? I am not sure where to look. Thanks in advance

You know which way I lean. If your team is already slightly handicapped due to injury and your choices are known quantities or players with untapped potential I think the smart move is to put reps towards tapping that potential. You don't have to lose games on purpose to that end but you do need to try to roll lines and let them find a groove.

There's no guarantee the team won't be banged up again come playoff time, especially if you're shorting the bench this early in the season, and you don't want these same fresh rookies coming in for the games down the stretch. This is the reason the Penguins constantly survive being plagued with injuries, they're forced to give their depth chart some rope and they're almost playing with house money while they figure it out since the games are less likely to be won anyway.

 

[Devil Dancer]

Hathaway isn't usually that bad offensively. Last year he was 6-12-18 +7 in 56gp in almost exclusively defensive assignments. Slightly worse the year before. Hopefully he will come around at least a bit.

 

[Raikkonen]

You'd hope Mantha is a lot more than just an early stage rebuild type stopgap. The way things are headed IMO you'd have to think about trading him for an actual starting goaltender should the stars somehow align. Not sure of potential scenarios for that. His point totals have been fine under the circumstances this season but absent more of a regular pulse it's hard to move him off of potential flip status. He's slick and maybe with more experience around him things would click more regularly but in terms of game impact he needs to prove it. At that salary level they can't afford for him to just be some more potential than results type X factor, albeit with better defense than those predecessors.

I think we have to cut him some slack. unlike 1st line wingers he's not playing with real center this season so far.

 

[twabby]

Eller, Hathaway, Dowd, and Hagelin have a combined 1 goal and 5 points in 37 total games. Hathaway and Hagelin haven't registered a single point. Dowd has the one goal and no other points. Eller has four points. They simply have to be better if this team is going to survive the injuries they currently have. Do not give a single shit about their veteran grittiness or their defensive prowess if they can't contribute at all offensively. If Ovechkin wasn't a mutant -- he's scored 28% of this team's goals at age 36 -- they'd be in the hurt locker big time.

On the flip side, Leason has looked better than I thought he would.

I'm with you on Eller, he's had a brutal start to the season. I wonder if he's still not right after his injury at the end of last season. Groin injuries can linger for a long time, and I believe he tweaked it again this preseason. If he is injured I understand why he might be playing through it given Backstrom's injury leaving them shallow at center, but I just hope he isn't delaying the inevitable since they'll need him at his best in the postseason.

HDH is a little bit different though. Their lack of point scoring is a bit disappointing, but they have still tilted the ice slightly in the positive direction and they have each still outscored their opponents while on the ice despite getting the toughest deployments and having disappointing finishing so far. I'd like to see their minutes pared back, but I'm not really displeased with their play overall even if I wish Laviolette would use them less.

 

[Hivemind]

I'm with you on Eller, he's had a brutal start to the season. I wonder if he's still not right after his injury at the end of last season. Groin injuries can linger for a long time, and I believe he tweaked it again this preseason. If he is injured I understand why he might be playing through it given Backstrom's injury leaving them shallow at center, but I just hope he isn't delaying the inevitable since they'll need him at his best in the postseason.

HDH is a little bit different though. Their lack of point scoring is a bit disappointing, but they have still tilted the ice slightly in the positive direction and they have each still outscored their opponents while on the ice despite getting the toughest deployments and having disappointing finishing so far. I'd like to see their minutes pared back, but I'm not really displeased with their play overall even if I wish Laviolette would use them less.

The last bit is the key part. They're doing well in their role, but Lavi can't be deploying a purely defensive line for that large of a chunk of the game, particularly when secondary scoring has been such a big issue for this team so far this year. If they're getting borderline 2nd line minutes, they need to be producing offensively.

 

[txpd]

they're almost playing with house money while they figure it out since the games are less likely to be won anyway.

Yea, they are going to lose anyway so lets give some development time to the prospects.. Ok. The Caps are 10 games in with 1 regulation L. This is with managed time for the not ready for prime time players. Fehervary is playing a full share. He is not in the not ready catagory. Managing the minutes of those that are in the catagory seem to be pissing some people off.

McMichael and Leason played less than 10 min. Eller and Sheary played a lot and the team rebounded for overtime. Would you rather have played those guys more and lost in regulation? Was that a game they were going to lose anyway and somehow managed not to?

My point is that Laviolette seems to be managing both having top players out of the lineup and kids in the lineup pretty well, given the results. I am not sure how they could have done better. I am really not sure how they could have done better throwing these young players in the deep end and let them sink or swim? If what you are saying is that, they probably would do worse, but that is a price you are willing to pay, then i get your answer.

Edit: I am also impressed by how solid the team's record and standing is given the number of top players out of the line and the number of players in the lineup that many here think are sucking ass.
The goalies suck. Their top mins defenseman sucks. Both special teams suck. a good 3rd of the forwards playing suck. AND...these things above prove that the coach sucks. I am not sure how that math adds up but thats just me.

 

[HTFN]

Yea, they are going to lose anyway so lets give some development time to the prospects.. Ok. The Caps are 10 games in with 1 regulation L. This is with managed time for the not ready for prime time players. Fehervary is playing a full share. He is not in the not ready catagory. Managing the minutes of those that are in the catagory seem to be pissing some people off.

McMichael and Leason played less than 10 min. Eller and Sheary played a lot and the team rebounded for overtime. Would you rather have played those guys more and lost in regulation? Was that a game they were going to lose anyway and somehow managed not to?

My point is that Laviolette seems to be managing both having top players out of the lineup and kids in the lineup pretty well, given the results. I am not sure how they could have done better. I am really not sure how they could have done better throwing these young players in the deep end and let them sink or swim? If what you are saying is that, they probably would do worse, but that is a price you are willing to pay, then i get your answer.

Edit: I am also impressed by how solid the team's record and standing is given the number of top players out of the line and the number of players in the lineup that many here think are sucking ass.
The goalies suck. Their top mins defenseman sucks. Both special teams suck. a good 3rd of the forwards playing suck. AND...these things above prove that the coach sucks. I am not sure how that math adds up but thats just me.

Kind of saying a different version of the same thing, though. If they're doing this well but shortening the benches even though the kids are actually playing pretty okay... couldn't they play the kids slightly more, take the occasional expected L (since they're currently outperforming expectations), still come away from the injury period "having done much better than expected", but also get the kids reps that would help build towards the future?

The bolded is pretty much right. They might lose once or twice more than expected, or maybe a kid we expect to develop steps up and figures something out, or maybe someone we didn't expect to see like Leason shows enough to skip the line and sticks. They might do worse in the moment but the payoffs (learning experiences for the young players, a better understanding of how to prepare them to take the next step in the offseason, regular minutes and miles on the players you're going to need later) are important pieces of information that you don't always have the freedom to find when everyone is healthy.

 

[Hivemind]

Yea, they are going to lose anyway so lets give some development time to the prospects.. Ok. The Caps are 10 games in with 1 regulation L. This is with managed time for the not ready for prime time players. Fehervary is playing a full share. He is not in the not ready catagory. Managing the minutes of those that are in the catagory seem to be pissing some people off.

McMichael and Leason played less than 10 min. Eller and Sheary played a lot and the team rebounded for overtime. Would you rather have played those guys more and lost in regulation? Was that a game they were going to lose anyway and somehow managed not to?

My point is that Laviolette seems to be managing both having top players out of the lineup and kids in the lineup pretty well, given the results. I am not sure how they could have done better. I am really not sure how they could have done better throwing these young players in the deep end and let them sink or swim? If what you are saying is that, they probably would do worse, but that is a price you are willing to pay, then i get your answer.

Edit: I am also impressed by how solid the team's record and standing is given the number of top players out of the line and the number of players in the lineup that many here think are sucking ass.
The goalies suck. Their top mins defenseman sucks. Both special teams suck. a good 3rd of the forwards playing suck. AND...these things above prove that the coach sucks. I am not sure how that math adds up but thats just me.

Playing younger players isn’t the same as throwing the game. Young guys and winning are not mutually exclusive.

Did you ignore the part where McMichael was the one who score the goal that knotted the game at 4? Heck, Sprong is one of their younger guys and you’re citing him in this post (and you’ve often used this exact same logic on your part to argue for benching him).

 

[Calicaps]

Kind of saying a different version of the same thing, though. If they're doing this well but shortening the benches even though the kids are actually playing pretty okay... couldn't they play the kids slightly more, take the occasional expected L (since they're currently outperforming expectations), still come away from the injury period "having done much better than expected", but also get the kids reps that would help build towards the future?

The bolded is pretty much right. They might lose once or twice more than expected, or maybe a kid we expect to develop steps up and figures something out, or maybe someone we didn't expect to see like Leason shows enough to skip the line and sticks. They might do worse in the moment but the payoffs (learning experiences for the young players, a better understanding of how to prepare them to take the next step in the offseason, regular minutes and miles on the players you're going to need later) are important pieces of information that you don't always have the freedom to find when everyone is healthy.

My eye test tells me the kids are growing. Fever is ready and playing a full role. The other guys are learning and improving and gaining confidence. See CMM’s terrific goal last night out there with Ovi. He’s playing with great players and learning from them. He will get more ice if he keeps improving. But why risk putting him/Leason/Jimi in positions to fail if the team is doing well and earning standings points while also letting them ease into it? What’s the harm?