Speculation: Caps General Discussion (Coaching/FAs/Cap/Lines etc) -- 2018-19 We Are The Champions Edition - Pt. 5

[traparatus]

I'm just agreeing with your point that Vrana has passed Bura by. He's done it in less time, through harder work. There's a lot of Bura's game that could be solved with work, effort, determination, the things Vrana has shown lots of. Not sure if his (Bura's) penchant for boneheaded passes to the opponent in our zone can be corrected with practice though. Maybe with contact lenses?

Just a cautious reminder that Burakovsky was looking just as good as Vrana in his first couple seasons, matching production and all. Add a couple of injuries, weight of expectations, lack of mental strength and Burakovsky doesn't look like the same player at all.

I'm a little apprehensive about writing Vrana into a top-6 role for ever and ever. These purely offensive guys don't have anything to fall back on if the puck is not going in and their development is never linear.

 

[kicksavedave]

Just a cautious reminder that Burakovsky was looking just as good as Vrana in his first couple seasons, matching production and all. Add a couple of injuries, weight of expectations, lack of mental strength and Burakovsky doesn't look like the same player at all.

I'm a little apprehensive about writing Vrana into a top-6 role for ever and ever. These purely offensive guys don't have anything to fall back on if the puck is not going in and their development is never linear.

Again I think the difference in the two is work ethic, one seems to have it and one does not. If that is in fact the situation it speaks volumes to why one guy has leapfrogged the other when both have similar skillsets to begin with.

 

[traparatus]

Again I think the difference in the two is work ethic, one seems to have it and one does not. If that is in fact the situation it speaks volumes to why one guy has leapfrogged the other when both have similar skillsets to begin with.

I have never once heard anything bad about Burakovsky's work ehtic.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

I have never once heard anything bad about Burakovsky's work ehtic.

Yeah that angle is nonsense IMO.

 

[kicksavedave]

I have never once heard anything bad about Burakovsky's work ehtic.

Yeah that angle is nonsense IMO.

I'm not suggesting some insider information that he's a lazy sod. But I have not seen anything anywhere that indicates he's working harder than others, putting in extra time, working on his deficient areas to improve them, lord knows he has plenty to work on though. I have on the other hand read just those exact reports about Vrana, just this week.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/spor...e79db33382f_story.html?utm_term=.350cab4ad978

Of the Washington Capitals, Vrana is almost always the last player off the ice, staying out so late that team equipment staffers occasionally have to plead that he wrap it up so they can finish their work for the day. Vrana changes up what he chooses to work on depending on how he feels his game is going, and while he still sees a lot that needs fine-tuning, the Capitals see an exciting young forward who has continued to get better.
...

Entering Tuesday’s game against the Golden Knights, Vrana had been unhappy with his recent performances, particularly his wall play, so he worked on that after a practice in Las Vegas. He then asked defenseman Dmitry Orlov to shoot pucks toward the net and attempted to get his blade on them because tips and deflections could help when the two are on the power play together. If Vrana misses on a chance in a game, he’ll spend the next day practicing his shot from that same spot, a bucket of pucks beside him as he snaps one after another.
“Sometimes I just wait until everybody’s gone and I have the ice for myself,” Vrana said. “And then I can do my thing.”

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

That Vrana is showing fantastic work ethic this year shouldn’t be a knock against anyone else IMO.

Bura’s issues seem more mental to me not related to some extra ice time after practice, but only speculating.

 

[maacoshark]

Not assuming anything. Just saying that if Stephenson is scratched Oshie replaces him for defensive work. That's all. Simple.

No he doesnt. Stephenson is better defensively than Oshie is. I'm not saying Oshie is bad. I'm saying Stephenson is a defensive specialist. That's why he is here.

 

[maacoshark]

That Vrana is showing fantastic work ethic this year shouldn’t be a knock against anyone else IMO.

Bura’s issues seem more mental to me not related to some extra ice time after practice, but only speculating.

Watching him play he just doesnt look like a team guy.

 

[Ajax1995]

Turning the corner lol....

More likely a u-turn...

He does have 4 goals and 6 points in the last 13 games. That is considerably better than the 1 goal and 2 points in his first 16 games.

I’m just saying...

 

[Hivemind]

Vrana putting in extra work on the rink is a completely different thing than Burakvosky not putting in extra work. Vrana's practice is visible to reporters and the public. It doesn't mean that numerous other players aren't hitting the weight room or stationary bicycle after practice.

 

[kicksavedave]

That Vrana is showing fantastic work ethic this year shouldn’t be a knock against anyone else IMO.

Bura’s issues seem more mental to me not related to some extra ice time after practice, but only speculating.

Well, throughout the history of sports, generally when a player isn't running right, they take more reps to get their groove back. Hitters in baseball, WRs in football, shooters in b-ball, scorers in hockey. And also throughout the history of all sports, those guys who routinely outwork everyone else tend to maximize everything they have to give for their career, whether they are all world talent like Jerry Rice was, or barely have pro skills like Jay Beagle.

I haven't seen anything from Bura that shows me he has this approach. If there's a knock on him its that he's letting Vrana outwork him, and so yeah, I'm going to hold that against him.

 

[kicksavedave]

Vrana putting in extra work on the rink is a completely different thing than Burakvosky not putting in extra work. Vrana's practice is visible to reporters and the public. It doesn't mean that numerous other players aren't hitting the weight room or stationary bicycle after practice.

Have you seen anything to infer that Bura is putting in extra conditioning time above and beyond other players, or do you just like to suppose things that cannot be seen to present a counter to things that can be seen and verified.

Vrana is the last one off the ice most times, to where the equipment people have to ask him to go home. Maybe Bura is riding a stationary bike in secret. The results would indicate probably not though. Vrana has improved. Bura has regressed. You got any actually idea why, or just random speculation?

In terms of this quote: Vrana putting in extra work on the rink is a completely different thing than Burakvosky not putting in extra work.

Yes, they are different. One is good, one is bad.

 

[txpd]

No he doesnt. Stephenson is better defensively than Oshie is. I'm not saying Oshie is bad. I'm saying Stephenson is a defensive specialist. That's why he is here.

oh god. dude. you are smarter than all of us here, but are you smarter than the coaches? They as a matter of course use Oshie in primary defensive situations before Stephenson. They use Tom Wilson ahead of Stephenson. Maybe you should talk to MacLellan about a coaching job

 

[maacoshark]

oh god. dude. you are smarter than all of us here, but are you smarter than the coaches? They as a matter of course use Oshie in primary defensive situations before Stephenson. They use Tom Wilson ahead of Stephenson. Maybe you should talk to MacLellan about a coaching job

They dont use Oshie ahead of Stephenson in defensive situations. They are used fairly evenly in defensive situations but I would say Stephenson gets used slightly more in defenbsive situations.

 

[Hivemind]

Well, throughout the history of sports, generally when a player isn't running right, they take more reps to get their groove back. Hitters in baseball, WRs in football, shooters in b-ball, scorers in hockey. And also throughout the history of all sports, those guys who routinely outwork everyone else tend to maximize everything they have to give for their career, whether they are all world talent like Jerry Rice was, or barely have pro skills like Jay Beagle.

I haven't seen anything from Bura that shows me he has this approach. If there's a knock on him its that he's letting Vrana outwork him, and so yeah, I'm going to hold that against him.

We have a nice fluff piece about Vrana, but that's it. For all we know Burakovsky spends all his extra time in the gym on the exercise bike or doing ball drills in the hallways. Not all of the teams' routine is open to reporters or the public. I find it hard to draw any conclusions given the vacuum of information surrounding Burakovsky's practice habits.

Have you seen anything to infer that Bura is putting in extra conditioning time above and beyond other players, or do you just like to suppose things that cannot be seen to present a counter to things that can be seen and verified.

Have you seen anything to infer that Burakovsky isn't working at least on par with his teammates? An article about Vrana doing good things doesn't speak at all to the conduct of other players (aside of Orlov, who was name dropped as working with Vrana after practice on deflections).

Vrana is the last one off the ice most times, to where the equipment people have to ask him to go home. Maybe Bura is riding a stationary bike in secret. The results would indicate probably not though. Vrana has improved. Bura has regressed. You got any actually idea why, or just random speculation?

As opposed to your random speculation?

Regression can be due to any number of factors. Your speculation that it's work ethic is baseless. About the only thing we know concretely is that Burakovsky has suffered multiple hand/wrist injuries in 2017 and 2018, causing missed time. Prior to his Februray 2017 wrist injury, he was highly productive. After that injury, his production rates have declined. We can't draw anything causal from that, but it's still far more applicable information than assuming he has poor work ethic based on Vrana sticking around after practices.

In terms of this quote: Vrana putting in extra work on the rink is a completely different thing than Burakvosky not putting in extra work.

Yes, they are different. One is good, one is bad.

The purpose of that quote was to say that good news about Vrana's practice habits does not equate to bad news about Burakovsky's.

 

[twabby]

They dont use Oshie ahead of Stephenson in defensive situations. They are used fairly evenly in defensive situations but I would say Stephenson gets used slightly more in defenbsive situations.

I think this whole paragraph needs a [citation needed]. Oshie played the toughest defensive minutes alongside Backstrom for most of this and last season. Stephenson has mainly played 4th line minutes, which isn’t usually against the other team’s best lines.

Stephenson literally has the worst goals against/60 on the team at 5v5. Oshie has the best.

I could also point to the advanced stats that all favor Oshie, but no one cares about that I guess. Bottom line is in no world is Stephenson a better defensive player than Oshie.

I could entertain an argument for Stephenson being a better PKer and he does receive more PK minutes than Oshie. But that doesn’t make him “better” or “more trusted” defensively.

 

[kicksavedave]

We have a nice fluff piece about Vrana, but that's it. For all we know Burakovsky spends all his extra time in the gym on the exercise bike or doing ball drills in the hallways. Not all of the teams' routine is open to reporters or the public. I find it hard to draw any conclusions given the vacuum of information surrounding Burakovsky's practice habits.

Fair enough. But we CAN draw conclusions from their work ethic on the ice in games, which are publicly viewable. Vrana's board work, specifically his effort on the walls, is much better than last year. Bura's effort along the walls, in battles for the puck, is 100% non existent. If Bura is putting in any extra conditioning work, it sure doesn't show with increased effort in games.

 

[txpd]

I would say …....

Yes, yes. You do

 

[txpd]

They dont use Oshie ahead of Stephenson in defensive situations. They are used fairly evenly in defensive situations but I would say Stephenson gets used slightly more in defenbsive situations.

Please note that Backstrom and Oshie are out against Larkin.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

I think this whole paragraph needs a [citation needed]. Oshie played the toughest defensive minutes alongside Backstrom for most of this and last season. Stephenson has mainly played 4th line minutes, which isn’t usually against the other team’s best lines.

Stephenson literally has the worst goals against/60 on the team at 5v5. Oshie has the best.

I could also point to the advanced stats that all favor Oshie, but no one cares about that I guess. Bottom line is in no world is Stephenson a better defensive player than Oshie.

I could entertain an argument for Stephenson being a better PKer and he does receive more PK minutes than Oshie. But that doesn’t make him “better” or “more trusted” defensively.

How dare you counter Maaco?! You you stats guy!

 

[HTFN]

Maaco also still wondering why 30/31 NHL teams are too stupid to take a flyer on Alzner.

Loves watching guys defend, hasn't figured out that their skill sets don't matter if you're not locked in the defensive zone to begin with.

 

[g00n]

Bura's problem as I see it isn't just mental as far as confidence goes, but mental in terms of how he sees the ice. What many call "hockey IQ" we could simply call anticipation and reaction for this purpose, and he's deficient in those areas.

That's why he seems to lose the puck so much and make the absolute worst decision in a lot of cases, even as he excels in others. If the scenario is familiar and moves at a pace he's expecting then he can perform. Otherwise he's just not processing what's going on fast enough, or accurately enough. You wait a half beat too long, the window is gone, you make the play anyway, and the puck is in your own net.

This is why he's a drag on guys like Kuznetsov whose game is based on always seeing the entire surface, everyone on it, what they're doing, what they're going to do, and where the puck fits in all this. If Bura wants to get better he can probably benefit from picking Kuzy's brain 24/7 for the next year. If not then the best place to put him is in the bottom 6 with a few pluggers who will never surprise him, which allows him to be the bonus scoring threat as well.

 

[txpd]

silly question. if Ov scores 50 and gets another Rocket, could the Caps finishing 2nd in the east get him a Hart Trophy?

 

[HTFN]

We have a nice fluff piece about Vrana, but that's it. For all we know Burakovsky spends all his extra time in the gym on the exercise bike or doing ball drills in the hallways. Not all of the teams' routine is open to reporters or the public. I find it hard to draw any conclusions given the vacuum of information surrounding Burakovsky's practice habits.



Have you seen anything to infer that Burakovsky isn't working at least on par with his teammates? An article about Vrana doing good things doesn't speak at all to the conduct of other players (aside of Orlov, who was name dropped as working with Vrana after practice on deflections).


As opposed to your random speculation?

Regression can be due to any number of factors. Your speculation that it's work ethic is baseless. About the only thing we know concretely is that Burakovsky has suffered multiple hand/wrist injuries in 2017 and 2018, causing missed time. Prior to his Februray 2017 wrist injury, he was highly productive. After that injury, his production rates have declined. We can't draw anything causal from that, but it's still far more applicable information than assuming he has poor work ethic based on Vrana sticking around after practices.



The purpose of that quote was to say that good news about Vrana's practice habits does not equate to bad news about Burakovsky's.

Honestly, with someone in Burakovsky's position, it's not enough for you to be doing work equal to that of your teammates. He needs to be doing work equal to his competition. That's why what Vrana is doing matters. One wants to create separation and own his spot, the other appears to want to wait and see what happens.

It's not like it highlights his individually poor work ethic or something, it's just if you had to choose between the two wouldn't you also want the one actively seeking to improve?

 

[Hivemind]

silly question. if Ov scores 50 and gets another Rocket, could the Caps finishing 2nd in the east get him a Hart Trophy?

Best thing going for him is that most of the other elite forwards are in duos this year. MacKinnon/Rantanen in Colorado, Marner/Matthews in Toronto, Kucherov/Point in Tampa Bay. But with the season that Backstrom is having (plus Kuzy's hot start before he got hurt), Washington would likely be lumped in the same boat. Plus there's still McDavid, and the Oilers are back in playoff contention.

I wouldn't be shocked at a top 3 finish (finalist), but I wouldn't bet on him winning the trophy at this point.