Salary Cap: Cap Space For Sale

[Spartachat]

Melnyk will fill the team up with LTIR and players will low real cash but high caps hits and say he is spending to the cap.

 

[topshelf15]

Melnyk will fill the team up with LTIR and players will low real cash but high caps hits and say he is spending to the cap.

Buckle up??

 

[BonkTastic]

Melnyk will fill the team up with LTIR and players will low real cash but high caps hits and say he is spending to the cap.

Well, TECHNICALLY, that used to be Ruszkowski's role, not Melnyk's.

We'll have to wait until the new POHO (or "pair of senior advisors") is before we find out who will be towing the boss's line for the 2019/20 season.

 

[dumbdick]

Those fishy ideas about taking on contracts post-bonus and then flipping the player with us retaining cap are gold. We should try to do that and see if the league flips out. Acquire assets on both sides of the deal. Gold jerry.

 

[Sen sational]

This is like the perfect storm for Ottawa:

-we have never had so much cap room before;
-bumper crop of UFAs and RFAs to be signed;
-lower cap increase than originally projected;
-teams who projected a slower ramp up have been caught with LTIR, Vegas, Arizona;
-a number of “marginal/surprise” teams which exceeded expectations in the playoffs, who want to upgrade to compete and ditch bad contracts;
-Toronto got greedy.

I realize we are still a Melnyk owned team, but it feels like Ottawa is set to take advantage of at least a few opportunities to accelerate the rebuild. I expect to take on 1 contract to move up in the draft and a few additional picks.

 

[Gil Gunderson]

Would be nice to actually get capable veteran d-man to help the young guys, but I guess it might cost real money.

Ceci being the veteran d-man that mentors others is unsettling

 

[MatchesMalone]

For someone who knows more about this stuff than I do, is there a realistic scenario where we could get the 30th overall pick for taking Backes' contract? Without having to give up much in the way of picks on our end?

 

[stempniaksen]

For someone who knows more about this stuff than I do, is there a realistic scenario where we could get the 30th overall pick for taking Backes' contract? Without having to give up much in the way of picks on our end?

There are a couple of issues with this specific scenario.

1. Backes has a Limited NTC. Unless he's getting some kind of assurance he's being flipped to a contender or being bought out I don't really see the incetive for him to waive for the Sens (who we have to assume are near the top of his No-Trade list).

2. Backes is owed a $3 million signing bonus, which would presumably be paid out July 1st. I don't think the Bruins could or would part with enough to get EM to eat that $3 million, which means any move would have to take place after the draft (essentially killing a deal for the 30th pick this year).

I think the more likely course of action is still taking on LTIR deals, and likely only doing so once their bonuses have been paid out (thinking specifically of a guy like David Clarkson in this case). Filling out the most cap for the least amount of cash.

 

[coladin]

If Dorion can convince Melnyk to go all in with the cap space relief strategy, it could shape this franchise much quicker

 

[Sen sational]

There are a couple of issues with this specific scenario.

1. Backes has a Limited NTC. Unless he's getting some kind of assurance he's being flipped to a contender or being bought out I don't really see the incetive for him to waive for the Sens (who we have to assume are near the top of his No-Trade list).

2. Backes is owed a $3 million signing bonus, which would presumably be paid out July 1st. I don't think the Bruins could or would part with enough to get EM to eat that $3 million, which means any move would have to take place after the draft (essentially killing a deal for the 30th pick this year).

I think the more likely course of action is still taking on LTIR deals, and likely only doing so once their bonuses have been paid out (thinking specifically of a guy like David Clarkson in this case). Filling out the most cap for the least amount of cash.

All valid points, but there was commentary on the Boston forum where he acknowledged that he didn’t like being sat in the final game and others. There was also the suggestion that Backes was aware of his 13th forward status with the club.

The net cap benefit of a buyout is minimal to Boston, so not a solution.

No other contender has cap space to absorb a Backes cap hit, nor is it likely they would want him. At minimum Backes would need an intermediary to retain 50% to send him to a potential 1st round playoff losing team, Ottawa could be the intermediary. If Backes wants to continue playing regular shifts he will have to accept less than what he would like.

Smith would be an upgrade, 4 years younger and would save Boston $2.75 million of cap space per year. This deal would save Melnyk $1.5 million in cash. Trading Condon saves Ottawa $3 million and costs Boston $1.4 million cap hit, and he could be bought out.

Ottawa could wait until after the bonus is paid and take a 20201st instead. Boston isn’t in a great position to play hard ball, the window for the current vet core is closing so it is now or never.

Boston has to sign key players, McAvoy, Carlo, Krug, Chara, Johansson. It is hard enough to get back to SC finals with the same players, let alone losing several key players. Non performing $6 million cap hit players need to be dealt with. As well, likely all GMs would be looking at the salary of Hayes and the potential for a lower than expected cap and realize they need to maximize each dollar.

Backes is a gritty player and would be a good vet in the locker room.

I agree that the best deals are the LTIR, if we can fill our boots with those then great. However, we may not get all of these and may have to look at real cash dumps as well.

 

[stempniaksen]

All valid points, but there was commentary on the Boston forum where he acknowledged that he didn’t like being sat in the final game and others. There was also the suggestion that Backes was aware of his 13th forward status with the club.

The net cap benefit of a buyout is minimal to Boston, so not a solution.

No other contender has cap space to absorb a Backes cap hit, nor is it likely they would want him. At minimum Backes would need an intermediary to retain 50% to send him to a potential 1st round playoff losing team, Ottawa could be the intermediary. If Backes wants to continue playing regular shifts he will have to accept less than what he would like.

Smith would be an upgrade, 4 years younger and would save Boston $2.75 million of cap space per year. This deal would save Melnyk $1.5 million in cash. Trading Condon saves Ottawa $3 million and costs Boston $1.4 million cap hit, and he could be bought out.

Ottawa could wait until after the bonus is paid and take a 20201st instead. Boston isn’t in a great position to play hard ball, the window for the current vet core is closing so it is now or never.

Boston has to sign key players, McAvoy, Carlo, Krug, Chara, Johansson. It is hard enough to get back to SC finals with the same players, let alone losing several key players. Non performing $6 million cap hit players need to be dealt with. As well, likely all GMs would be looking at the salary of Hayes and the potential for a lower than expected cap and realize they need to maximize each dollar.

Backes is a gritty player and would be a good vet in the locker room.

I agree that the best deals are the LTIR, if we can fill our boots with those then great. However, we may not get all of these and may have to look at real cash dumps as well.

Those are all valid points, I agree that a deal could be mutually beneficial for Boston and Ottawa. But unless there's a 3rd team, and the Sens are acting as intermediaries, I really don't see Backes waiving his NTC. I know he'd welcome a change and would waive for most teams. I'm just of the belief that most players with trade protection would have Ottawa high on their lists.

 

[Larionov]

I'm just of the belief that most players with trade protection would have Ottawa high on their lists.

I would eat my hat if any veteran with trade protection didn't have Ottawa on his no fly list. This is why I don't see us as players in these salary dump scenarios. Guys like Marleau with full NMCs will simply refuse to waive.

Having said all that, Ottawa really does get an unfair rap around the league. Some players get it - my son read an interview with Wideman recently where he said that he had no idea how good he had it in Ottawa until he left in terms of how the club treats its players, the training and medical staff, etc. Look at the way this organization and city supported the Anderson family through their tough times - plenty of other examples as well. Apparently Winnipeg is the same - once guys get there they love it (except Jacob Trouba), but from the outside it doesn't look like an attractive place to go for veterans and free agents.

 

[Rand0m]

I would eat my hat if any veteran with trade protection didn't have Ottawa on his no fly list. This is why I don't see us as players in these salary dump scenarios. Guys like Marleau with full NMCs will simply refuse to waive.

Having said all that, Ottawa really does get an unfair rap around the league. Some players get it - my son read an interview with Wideman recently where he said that he had no idea how good he had it in Ottawa until he left in terms of how the club treats its players, the training and medical staff, etc. Look at the way this organization and city supported the Anderson family through their tough times - plenty of other examples as well. Apparently Winnipeg is the same - once guys get there they love it (except Jacob Trouba), but from the outside it doesn't look like an attractive place to go for veterans and free agents.

I think that was true under Murray's direction. There might have been some things left over even after he passed (RIP) but anything Murray had built has by now been destroyed by Melnyk and Dorion. Wideman said those things as he has played for 5 different teams (including 2 AHL) this season alone. He became a spare part as soon as he was traded away from Ottawa so of course he was treated poorly.

 

[dumbdick]

There are a couple of issues with this specific scenario.

1. Backes has a Limited NTC. Unless he's getting some kind of assurance he's being flipped to a contender or being bought out I don't really see the incetive for him to waive for the Sens (who we have to assume are near the top of his No-Trade list).

2. Backes is owed a $3 million signing bonus, which would presumably be paid out July 1st. I don't think the Bruins could or would part with enough to get EM to eat that $3 million, which means any move would have to take place after the draft (essentially killing a deal for the 30th pick this year).

I think the more likely course of action is still taking on LTIR deals, and likely only doing so once their bonuses have been paid out (thinking specifically of a guy like David Clarkson in this case). Filling out the most cap for the least amount of cash.

I doubt ottawa is at the top of his no trade list. He could get big minutes with us, instead of toiling at the bottom of a depth chart elsewhere. Same reason we can attract ncaa guys. They want opportunities and we've got em

 

[stempniaksen]

I doubt ottawa is at the top of his no trade list. He could get big minutes with us, instead of toiling at the bottom of a depth chart elsewhere. Same reason we can attract ncaa guys. They want opportunities and we've got em

There's a massive difference between an unsigned NCAA free agent and a guy who has played 1000+ games and made over 50 million dollars in his career. NCAA guys want "opportunity" so they can define a role and cash in on their next deal, Backes is firmly in the "chasing a cup" stage of his career. I'd bet dollars to donuts we're one of the very last teams he'd consider going to.

 

[Upgrayedd]

This is like the perfect storm for Ottawa:

-we have never had so much cap room before;
-bumper crop of UFAs and RFAs to be signed;
-lower cap increase than originally projected;
-teams who projected a slower ramp up have been caught with LTIR, Vegas, Arizona;
-a number of “marginal/surprise” teams which exceeded expectations in the playoffs, who want to upgrade to compete and ditch bad contracts;
-Toronto got greedy.

I realize we are still a Melnyk owned team, but it feels like Ottawa is set to take advantage of at least a few opportunities to accelerate the rebuild. I expect to take on 1 contract to move up in the draft and a few additional picks.

Besides all of your points being extremely valid, well thought out, and a no brainer for a real NHL team, there was a time many moons ago where I too somewhat believed the brain trust and that specifically the owner would deliver on the promises he loves to espouse, unfortunately as history shows us again and again, the only truth Eugene speaks of relates to reduction of costs exclusively!

 

[Sen sational]

Besides all of your points being extremely valid, well thought out, and a no brainer for a real NHL team, there was a time many moons ago where I too somewhat believed the brain trust and that specifically the owner would deliver on the promises he loves to espouse, unfortunately as history shows us again and again, the only truth Eugene speaks of relates to reduction of costs exclusively!

I certainly understand the feelings of disappointment and mistrust of Melnyk. He has made more than his fair share of mistakes and mislead the fan base. However, I believe there has been a few positive changes. Ottawa now has its own ECHL team, Brampton, which means we no longer send our goalies to other teams to develop. We have increased our scouting, over more recent trends. I would not say that everything has changed, but somethings have. Melnyk will continue to be cost conscious and we will not have the shiny new toys like some teams but I can at least see a logic to some current “building” decisions.

Do I believe that we will be a playoff team this year or next, no. Do I understand why you wouldn’t tell your team you expect them to suck for the next few years and so will accept less effort etc, yes.

As for taking bad contracts, danielpalfredsson and a few others have demonstrated how these deals could return a pick and be cash neutral. On this basis, Melnyk should be all in on these deals.

Having said the above, I would be disappointed if Ottawa didn’t at least kick the tires on these deals. Whether we land any is another story.

As for the perfect storm, the Hayes contract should have GMs worried even more about the cost of adding upgrades. GMs will also hold off on making some trade decisions as they won’t know the cap ceiling, so we will be taking back 2020 draft picks instead.

 

[Sen sational]

Dreger on tsn, lots of trade talk because “there are more than 30 bad contracts” out there.

 

[Sen sational]

Lebrun tweeting that Karlsson close to signing 8 year deal. Since not a bridge imo it will be a big about 6 to 7 per year. That puts Vegas at $90 million cap, trades of ltir and players coming up.

 

[LudwigVonKarlsson]

may as well close this thread, no point in speculation because melnyk wont approve trading for bad contracts.

 

[Larionov]

Lebrun tweeting that Karlsson close to signing 8 year deal. Since not a bridge imo it will be a big about 6 to 7 per year. That puts Vegas at $90 million cap, trades of ltir and players coming up.

Vegas is going to have to give away a very useful roster player for free - there's no getting around it. Further, they would no doubt vastly prefer to give that player to an Eastern Conference team. As one of the few Eastern Conference teams with cap space, we should be right at the front of the line. Give them a second back and we'll take Tuch, thank you very much...

 

[BigRig4]

Take Clarkson if we get Miller

 

[Crosside]

A third for Miller

 

[Coach Parker]

There are a couple of issues with this specific scenario.

1. Backes has a Limited NTC. Unless he's getting some kind of assurance he's being flipped to a contender or being bought out I don't really see the incetive for him to waive for the Sens (who we have to assume are near the top of his No-Trade list).

2. Backes is owed a $3 million signing bonus, which would presumably be paid out July 1st. I don't think the Bruins could or would part with enough to get EM to eat that $3 million, which means any move would have to take place after the draft (essentially killing a deal for the 30th pick this year).

I think the more likely course of action is still taking on LTIR deals, and likely only doing so once their bonuses have been paid out (thinking specifically of a guy like David Clarkson in this case). Filling out the most cap for the least amount of cash.

Excellent post.

It's far more likely that July 2nd the Bruins have paid out 3.0 million in bonuses to Backes, he is moved to Ottawa and the Senators pick which young NHL ready LHD they want from Boston (Lauzon or Zboril) in exchange for taking on the salary cap. Both are better than the 30th overall and both have experience with Chabot.

Cheers

 

[Sen sational]

Vegas is going to have to give away a very useful roster player for free - there's no getting around it. Further, they would no doubt vastly prefer to give that player to an Eastern Conference team. As one of the few Eastern Conference teams with cap space, we should be right at the front of the line. Give them a second back and we'll take Tuch, thank you very much...

All true, if offers are similar you would likely give the deal to a team that is a long way away from competing against you.