Salary Cap: Cap Space For Sale

L'Aveuglette

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Jan 8, 2007
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Yeah, nice dream. We're definitely not going to take advantage of it. Best we can expect is taking on one big insured contract such as Clarkson.

But imagine what a rich-ish team could do in our position!
 
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Knave

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Mar 6, 2007
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Yeah, nice dream. We're definitely not going to take advantage of it. Best we can expect is taking on one big insured contract such as Clarkson.

But imagine what a rich-ish team could do in our position!

Our market is just not as strong as Carolina and New Jersey. I mean just look at the difference in attendance. If only we had those glorious attendance numbers. f***ing fans.
 

Larionov

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Feb 9, 2005
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You would have to think that the Habs would have been willing to do the deal offered to the Canes. My guess is that it wasn't offered to them, as they are a division rival of the Leafs. We weren't in, but I doubt we would have been contacted either. Bad enough that Dubas has to hold a fire sale after a first round exit - to allow a division rival to benefit would be salt in the wound for LeafBros.
 
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PemIceKing

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Dec 23, 2011
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Nylander may be able to be bought low, but it will take more than a late first and a cheap ufa replacement level dman.

Ya no. And also, do you not have to spend to the cap to be able to use LTIR as mentioned earlier in this post?
 

Knave

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Mar 6, 2007
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Ya no. And also, do you not have to spend to the cap to be able to use LTIR as mentioned earlier in this post?

It's probably better to think of LTIR as extending your cap. So the cap is not 81.5 million if you have an injured player but 81.5 million + that players cap hit. Of course if they come back your team could get into trouble and you lose that benefit. There are formulas involved for how much your cap is extended once you reach the league cap so it's not nearly this simple but roughly how it works.
 

aragorn

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Aug 8, 2004
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From the Trade Thread:

To LV: Mike Condon G
To Ott: Ryan Reaves RW, David Clarkson contract & 2020 2nd rd pick (Pitt)

- LV gets some much needed cap space & a backup goalie
- Ott gets rid of Condon, some protection for their young players & another 2020 2nd rd pick
 

Sens of Anarchy

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Jul 9, 2013
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It's probably better to think of LTIR as extending your cap. So the cap is not 81.5 million if you have an injured player but 81.5 million + that players cap hit. Of course if they come back your team could get into trouble and you lose that benefit. There are formulas involved for how much your cap is extended once you reach the league cap so it's not nearly this simple but roughly how it works.

Pretty much... from an article Hockey 101: Long Term Injury Reserve (LTIR)
FTF Example: The salary cap Upper Limit is $60.0MM, and a team currently has a 20 man roster of $59.0MM. There is $1.0MM in cap room available to them. In the first day of the regular season, a player making $2.0MM is hit along the boards, injured, and subsequently placed on LTIR. The team now has that $2.0MM to use in order to bring in replacement player(s) to fill the hole left by that $2.0MM player-- that number is equal to the injured player's salary. They are able to spend up to $61.0MM (or, $1.0MM over the cap) to replace that player.
This is because, at the time of injury, the team had $1.0MM in cap space available to them. Since the injured player on LTIR had a salary of $2.0MM, $1.0MM of that goes towards getting the team to the Upper Limit of that year (which is $60.0MM), and then the remaining $1.0MM is used to allow the team to temporarily exceed the Upper Limit until the player on LTIR is able to return.
Think of it this way-- a $2.0MM player was injured on a team that had $1.0MM in cap room. The cap hit of the injured player ($2.0MM) minus the amount of salary cap space ($1.0MM) equals the amount that team can exceed the upper limit by ($1.0MM).

FTF Example Two: The salary cap Upper Limit is $60.0MM, and a team currently has a 20 man roster of $60.0MM. Right at the limit, absolutely no breathing room. In the first day of the regular season, a player making $2.0MM is hit along the boards, injured, and subsequently placed on LTIR. Using the formula in the last paragraph of example one, we know that the team now has $2.0MM to use to exceed the Upper Limit and bring up players.
However, as we've learned, the player on LTIR still counts against the team's year end cap when he's injured. By promoting a player, they will be over the year end cap and not compliant with the CBA. So what gives? Essentially, if this situation were to occur, a team would have to trade a player right before the injured player returns in order to become salary cap compliant.

Those are the basics of the LTIR, and covers most of what we'll see throughout the regular season. Let's review what we've learned:
  • In order to qualify for the LTIR, a player must be deemed to be unavailable for 24 days and 10 NHL games after the time of injury.
  • A team is allowed to exceed the salary cap Upper Limit by x amount after applying this formula: The cap hit of the injured player on LTIR minus the amount of salary cap space equals the amount that team can exceed the upper limit by.
  • And most importantly, a player on LTIR does not generate any extra cap room for the team. He does not come off the books, and will be factored into the calculations of the year-end salary cap of the team.
 
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OgieO

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May 17, 2006
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I think we're trading with Vegas. Pretty sure that Clarkson contract is insured so actual $ is nil or minimal. That's how we'd use that space and Vegas has to move it or an actual asset.

Clarkson and a 2nd for Condon.

Wish we would be bold and find a way to take Clarkson and nab Hague in the process. We'd have to add, but it would be worth it.

Clarkson, Hague for 2020 2nd.

Would never happen though.
 

stempniaksen

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Oct 12, 2008
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Vegas makes too much sense, imo. They are over the cap and don't seem to be overly worried about it, makes me think they have something in place and are simply waiting (probably for Clarkson's bonus to be paid out, hmm, that sounds like a team we're all familiar with's MO).

I know the common names (outside of Clarkson) are Miller, Reaves and Haula. That being said, Brayden McNabb has a bit of backdiving deal, so he could be another target.
 

supsens

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Oct 6, 2013
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You would have to think that the Habs would have been willing to do the deal offered to the Canes. My guess is that it wasn't offered to them, as they are a division rival of the Leafs. We weren't in, but I doubt we would have been contacted either. Bad enough that Dubas has to hold a fire sale after a first round exit - to allow a division rival to benefit would be salt in the wound for LeafBros.

We probably got offered a second like everyone else(the talk on the floor at draft). When they clued in they had to pay a fist they went straight to Carolina in order to grease the wheels because they want a dman from them.
 

Upgrayedd

Earn'em and Burn'em
Oct 14, 2010
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Eugene and Pierre have ensured our position cap space/trade wise is the weakest in the league, forget acquiring extra assets, the insured contract taking up salary cap space is the most valuable thing to Eugene currently and going forward. Because of this I expect the trading cost differs solely for the Ottawa Senators.
 

Shruggs Peterson

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Mar 1, 2017
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We're gonna wake up tomorrow and see Clarkson+ a 1st going to Carolina or Arizona, aren't we?

I think if Carolina snuck in to do that deal it would've happened with Haula a part of it. Sure they could still do it but I think they wait until they can get Aho signed. May need more cap space than they think if a team offer sheets.

For Arizona they have less room than we usually expect from them. They already have Hossa on LTIR for 2 more years, have Mike Ribeiro from his buy out, and took on more salary with Carl Soderberg.

Of the teams that have a boatload of cap space (boatload being 20+ atm), the Sens are the only team that a) don't have an RFA that could break the bank this offseason and b) aren't trying to be competitive.
 
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Shruggs Peterson

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Mar 1, 2017
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From the Trade Thread:

To LV: Mike Condon G
To Ott: Ryan Reaves RW, David Clarkson contract & 2020 2nd rd pick (Pitt)

- LV gets some much needed cap space & a backup goalie
- Ott gets rid of Condon, some protection for their young players & another 2020 2nd rd pick

Sold! Gets a character guy who can lead some of the younger guys and get them one step closer to the goal of having all of the 2nd round picks in 2020.
 
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Hale The Villain

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We're gonna wake up tomorrow and see Clarkson+ a 1st going to Carolina or Arizona, aren't we?

Apparently Vegas was offering to pay a 5th at the draft to have a team take on Clarkson's deal.

Obviously no team bit on that, but still I don't think he'll go for as much as people think. His deal isn't like Marleau's where you'd have to pay 4M in salary. After Clarkson's July 1st bonus is paid, the cost may only be around 200K after insurance covers most of his 1M salary.

Maybe it ends up being a 2nd because no team offers to help them out, but I highly doubt any team gets a 1st round pick for taking on under 1M in salary for next season.
 

Larionov

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Feb 9, 2005
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Apparently Vegas was offering to pay a 5th at the draft to have a team take on Clarkson's deal.

Obviously no team bit on that, but still I don't think he'll go for as much as people think. His deal isn't like Marleau's where you'd have to pay 4M in salary. After Clarkson's July 1st bonus is paid, the cost may only be around 200K after insurance covers most of his 1M salary.

Maybe it ends up being a 2nd because no team offers to help them out, but I highly doubt any team gets a 1st round pick for taking on under 1M in salary for next season.

A 5th? No wonder everyone hates McPhee. That's insulting. A 5th round pick is a lottery ticket - once you get there, it's not even a sure bet that the guy can play in the AHL regularly. Credit to Dubas - at least he figured out that he was going to have to bite the bullet and offer something substantial for the cap relief he needed.

I am resigned to the fact that we aren't going to end up using our cap space as a weapon at all. As it turns out, Melnyk's talk a few years ago about cap space being a huge advantage was just a bunch of hot air. Who would have guessed?
 

Hale The Villain

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Trading a 5th for Clarkson before July 1 when his signing bonus is due probably isn't worth it, but if someone were to make that trade after July 1st they'd basically be buying a 5th for around 200K (depending on how much LTIR insurance covers), which is something most teams with money would do.

Still pissed we missed out on Marleau.
 

Shruggs Peterson

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Mar 1, 2017
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Trading a 5th for Clarkson before July 1 when his signing bonus is due probably isn't worth it, but if someone were to make that trade after July 1st they'd basically be buying a 5th for around 200K (depending on how much LTIR insurance covers), which is something most teams with money would do.

Still pissed we missed out on Marleau.

I remember hearing something along the lines of "teams haven't forgotten the position McPhee was in at the expansion draft", but I can't find anything to back that up. If that is the feeling, then most teams won't settle for a 5th.
 

danielpalfredsson

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Aug 14, 2013
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Trading a 5th for Clarkson before July 1 when his signing bonus is due probably isn't worth it, but if someone were to make that trade after July 1st they'd basically be buying a 5th for around 200K (depending on how much LTIR insurance covers), which is something most teams with money would do.

Still pissed we missed out on Marleau.

Most teams probably wouldn't do that.

A 5th is absurdly low for taking that contract. There's multiple previous examples that put the market value somewhere around a future 2nd round pick.

The Senators might do it if they couldn't get to the floor, because they wouldn't be spending 200k, they'd be saving whatever amount they are away from the floor by, but most teams would not take on that contract for a 5th. They'd want more.
 

danielpalfredsson

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Aug 14, 2013
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After hysteria from some analysts and mainboard fans about us having difficulty to reach the floor, we are now (unofficially) above the cap floor.

Capfriendly has us 1.54 million away with a 19 player roster. League minimum is 700k which means to fill a 23 player roster with 4 league minimum players will cost us in excess of that 1.54 million.

We are currently spending $58,237,500 in salary according to Capfriendly. That doesn't account for the following cash.
-Zaitsev 3M bonus paid by TOR
-Brown 600k bonus paid by TOR
-MacArthur (if he is actually 80 percent insured) to have 3.8M covered via insurance
-Gaborik (if he is actually 80 percent insured) to have 2.54M covered via insurance

In total, we are spend a bit above 48 million. For many years, our previous rumored internal salary budget was 68 million. It will be interesting to see how close we come to that. We still have White and Wolanin to sign, and there have been rumors of us acquiring Turris, so I think it's unlikely that we spend less than 50 million once the roster is filled out.

Happy cap floor day!
 

Ouroboros

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Feb 3, 2008
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After hysteria from some analysts and mainboard fans about us having difficulty to reach the floor, we are now (unofficially) above the cap floor.

Capfriendly has us 1.54 million away with a 19 player roster. League minimum is 700k which means to fill a 23 player roster with 4 league minimum players will cost us in excess of that 1.54 million.

We are currently spending $58,237,500 in salary according to Capfriendly. That doesn't account for the following cash.
-Zaitsev 3M bonus paid by TOR
-Brown 600k bonus paid by TOR
-MacArthur (if he is actually 80 percent insured) to have 3.8M covered via insurance
-Gaborik (if he is actually 80 percent insured) to have 2.54M covered via insurance

In total, we are spend a bit above 48 million. For many years, our previous rumored internal salary budget was 68 million. It will be interesting to see how close we come to that. We still have White and Wolanin to sign, and there have been rumors of us acquiring Turris, so I think it's unlikely that we spend less than 50 million once the roster is filled out.

Happy cap floor day!

I have it broken down as follows:

Tkachuk [.925/.925] - White [X] - Brown [2.1/1.6]
Duclair [1.65/1.65] - Brown [.863333/.8325] - Batherson [.736666/.78]
Ennis [.8/.8] - Pageau [3.1/3.4] - Ryan [7.25/7.5]
Smith [3.25/3.25] - Tierney [2.9375/2.975] - Balcers [.759167/.7925]
Boedker [4.0/3.0]

Chabot [.863333/.8325] - DeMelo [.9/.9]
Brannstrom [.863333/.925] - Hainsey [3.5/3.5]
Wolanin [X] - Zaitsev [4.5/1.5]
Borowiecki [1.2/1.2]
Jaros [.755/.805]

Anderson [4.75/4.0]
Nilsson [2.6/2.8]

LTIR - Gaborik [4.875], MacArthur [4.65]; Cash [1.585]
Buried - Condon [1.325]; Cash [3.0]
Buyout - Phaneuf [.729167]; Cash [1.416667]

Total = 59.88M
Cash = 49.96M

They could carry 13/7/3 and keep Condon in the NHL to boost their cap number with no impact on their cash outlay.
 
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danielpalfredsson

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Aug 14, 2013
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I have it broken down as follows:

Tkachuk [.925/.925] - White [X] - Brown [2.1/1.6]
Duclair [1.65/1.65] - Brown [.863333/.8325] - Batherson [.736666/.78]
Ennis [.8/.8] - Pageau [3.1/3.4] - Ryan [7.25/7.5]
Smith [3.25/3.25] - Tierney [2.9375/2.975] - Balcers [.759167/.7925]
Boedker [4.0/3.0]

Chabot [.863333/.8325] - DeMelo [.9/.9]
Brannstrom [.863333/.925] - Hainsey [3.5/3.5]
Wolanin [X] - Zaitsev [4.5/1.5]
Borowiecki [1.2/1.2]
Jaros [.755/.805]

Anderson [4.75/4.0]
Nilsson [2.6/2.8]

LTIR - Gaborik [4.875], MacArthur [4.65]; Cash [1.585]
Buried - Condon [1.325]; Cash [3.0]
Buyout - Phaneuf [.729167]; Cash [1.416667]

Total = 59.88M
Cash = 49.96M

They could carry 13/7/3 and keep Condon in the NHL to boost their cap number with no impact on their cash outlay.

A big thing is that even if we sign White to a mid or long term deal, years 1 and 2 are likely to be really low compared to the rest of the contract. It would be out of character for White to get a flat salary throughout the entire contract.
 

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