Confirmed with Link: Canucks to induct Roberto Luongo into the Ring of Honour

[wetcoast]

All three are more than deserving, IMO. The bar should be high, yes, but if it has to include a Stanley Cup there are and have been many great players around the NHL who would never see their number retired.

I love Linden as he was the face of the franchise and had excellent work habits and character as did the Sedins but really all 3 are ring of honour guys teams shouldn't retire players unless they are elite, extra special and actually had decent playoff resumes, something Linden has but the Sedins really lacked.

At some point when we are all dead and gone they will have to bring back 16,22 and 33 if that's the bar.

 

[Kevinsane]

I love Linden as he was the face of the franchise and had excellent work habits and character as did the Sedins but really all 3 are ring of honour guys teams shouldn't retire players unless they are elite, extra special and actually had decent playoff resumes, something Linden has but the Sedins really lacked.

At some point when we are all dead and gone they will have to bring back 16,22 and 33 if that's the bar.

I think retiring 16 was a nod in no small part to Linden’s off ice impact. Daniel and Henrik were indeed elite and extra special. Art Ross, Hart, and especially Pearson trophies are indicative of that. There will never again, I’d bet, be chemistry and production like that between 22 and 33.

 

[wetcoast]

I think retiring 16 was a nod in no small part to Linden’s off ice impact. Daniel and Henrik were indeed elite and extra special. Art Ross, Hart, and especially Pearson trophies are indicative of that. There will never again, I’d bet, be chemistry and production like that between 22 and 33.

I get why 16 was retired but the Sedins were elite for a short period, basically 2 years then just really good and it never carried over into the playoffs.

But their chemistry and them being twins is part of the mystic I guess.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

I get why 16 was retired but the Sedins were elite for a short period, basically 2 years then just really good and it never carried over into the playoffs.

But their chemistry and them being twins is part of the mystic I guess.

I think they went to the stanley cup final game 7 once.

But Im not sure.

 

[Hit the post]

I think they went to the stanley cup final game 7 once.

But Im not sure.

I went thru a frontal labotomy to try and remove that memory.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

I went thru a frontal labotomy to try and remove that memory.

Damn.
Did not mean to reintroduce the memory.

Hope you can afford a 2nd operation.

 

[geebster]

I went thru a frontal labotomy to try and remove that memory.

I feel extra bad for you considering the frontal lobe isn't where that memory would've been to begin with. Now you have lost executive function and are socially disinhibited and still remember the dark times.

Also Luongo absolutely should be in the HoF. Hrs one of only 2 true superstars this team had for their primes. It's just Bure and Luongo. Sedins were up there for a couple seasons but most of their careers they weren't considered top 10 players in their position.

Edit: I really think Pettersson and Hughes can be in that conversation in the end. Definitely hope so.

 

[Aphid Attraction]

If that’s the case doesn’t Bure jump out at you? He was t close to the team at all and still isn’t.

He jumps out by being a player that is good enough to have his jersey retired.

 

[Kevinsane]

I went thru a frontal labotomy to try and remove that memory.

So you’re a Leafs fan now?

 

[AlainVigneaultsGum]

I love Linden as he was the face of the franchise and had excellent work habits and character as did the Sedins but really all 3 are ring of honour guys teams shouldn't retire players unless they are elite, extra special and actually had decent playoff resumes, something Linden has but the Sedins really lacked.

At some point when we are all dead and gone they will have to bring back 16,22 and 33 if that's the bar.

Wat,

Linden and the twins had the same amount of playoff success.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

it’s kind of bonkers to me that people can look back on our history and say, well if we haven’t accomplished what the islanders/oilers did in the 80s we can’t have jerseys in the rafters. i am exaggerating slightly but a lot of these argument implicitly point to a bar that if you think about it is actually that high.

tbh it feels not unsimilar to me how every time when we marvel at having a quinn hughes, some jackass avs fan will show up to say, He’S nOt CaLe MaKaRzZz

i get that having high expectations can be nice, but it seems borderline self-loathing to think our history isn’t worth honouring because we never won multiple cups or because none of our players was in the top 100 all time.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

but then i am a “feel” guy in terms of numbers in the rafters, not a check all these boxes guy

i wasn’t around for 1982, but how important was that run for people who lived it? was it comparable to the absolute revelation of having pavel bure arrive in the fall of 1991 and then just flat out blow us away with his artistry for the next three years? because i don’t care what happened after that, if you lived those years up to the 94 finals, you know that was the most special and identity-changing thing anyone who ever watched hockey in this city had experienced since like cyclone taylor or some shit

since then, i would argue the sedins’ run in 2010 and 2011 belong in that breath. just absolutely transformational in so many ways. i don’t know how you don’t memorialize that.

i would also argue that naslund (and bertuzzi) in 2002 and 2003 doesn’t hit that bar

but an open question about 2007 luongo. i mean, man that was something else, esp right after cloutier (similar to henrik winning the hart/ross, post-2003 naslund). but culturally, was it bure in 92 special? idk…

 

[Jyrki21]

Number retirements aren't because "a guy was a really good player." There are dozens of other distinctions for that reason, including awards, All-Star teams, money, fanfare, etc. Pulling a number out of circulation is an act of saying "no one else should ever wear this number because it feels wrong." Not "Hey, this guy was really good!"

Seen through that lens, I have far less a problem with bad teams retiring important "team" or "community" guys, and I had a thread on Twitter about this re: Chris Neil. Simply heaping another distinction on guys who are already covered in glory seems kind of pointless to me, to be honest.

(And anyone who uses "Cups" as a stat for anything in a 32-team league can GTFO because they're comparing to a standard that simply isn't relevant or realistic anymore.)

So with the Canucks, I take the most issue with Pavel Bure's retirement, no matter how transformative he was as a player. He didn't stay in Vancouver long enough and if anything eschewed the community connection that this honor really represents. On top of that, his #10 was never treated as sacred (other guys wore it after he left) so by that point you've pretty much always lost the mystique. It still feels to me like a stunt to generate interest when the team was on a decline.

By contrast, I think Näslund is relatively more justified because he spent most of his career in Vancouver, rewrote the team record book, captained the team through its rebirth for a new generation of fans, and served as the face of the franchise. Even apart from the fact that he was voted League MVP by his peers, which most of the other's weren't.

For Luongo, I mostly land in the RoH spot for two reasons: (1) similar to Bure, it comes off as feeling "hey this guy was really good for a while here! We should make a big deal out of it!" rather than "it seems unbelievable someone else could wear this number." And then that brings us to (2) the number itself. #1 is "the goalie number", worn by many many goalies, including several in the Canucks' own history (obviously including the next guy in line as most memorable Canuck goaltender). If Luongo wore, like, #61 I think this is less of a debate. Taking one of only nine possible single-digit numbers out of circulation, especially when it is THE goalie number, seems a bit awkward.

 

[racerjoe]

I get why 16 was retired but the Sedins were elite for a short period, basically 2 years then just really good and it never carried over into the playoffs.

But their chemistry and them being twins is part of the mystic I guess.

The twins Ppg is .84 their playoff ppg is .76… wow what a difference…

 

[wetcoast]

The twins Ppg is .84 their playoff ppg is .76… wow what a difference…

Look we can agree to disagree but neither Sedin was even close to elite in the playoffs to their regular season highs in their 2 best years.

If people think it's fine to retire these jerseys then that's how Dustin Brown has his sweater retired gets a statue in the process.

Maybe I just have a really high bar for retiring jerseys.

 

[racerjoe]

Comparing brown to the twins is pretty laughable

 

[kcunac]

If that’s the case doesn’t Bure jump out at you? He was t close to the team at all and still isn’t.

It’s a good point and note I’m not defending the team’s ‘logic’ but in Bure’s case he isn’t as close to another NHL team as Luongo is

 

[Hit the post]

Smyl wasn't a "fan favourite" , he was the Canucks. Ring of Honour for guys like McLhargy, and Kurtenbach. No Canucks fan who watched him played ever argued that Smyl didn't belong up there.
If it was all about numbers than Steve Shutt's number would be hanging in Montreal. Its the importance to the team that matters. Remember too, he lead us to the Finals. There's a reason he is our longest serving captain ever. He lead the team in scoring and games with 8 consecutive 20 goal scoring seasons, records which he held for over 10 years after his retirement. Nearing the end of his career he would not entertain a trade to a team in his final seasons just to make the playoffs
In our darkest hours last year it was him that told the players that that logo means something.

Anyway, that's my rant.
Perhaps what should happen is not retire any number and only have a ring of honor.

This is where I bring up once again that Tiger William's #22 was almost retired at the behest of Pat Quinn.

---
On the Old Tony Gallagher radio show (Tony couldn't make it that night and someone else sat in for him) his weekly guest Tiger Williams was on and related that Pat Quinn wanted to retire his number #22 but they ran into a problem: Bob Manno. "Scummy" (as Manno was affectionately known) wouldn't do it. So Pat offered him $1000 Tiger said. He still wouldn't do it. A lot of players have since worn #22 in honor of Dave as the "goon" number, including the celebrity All Star team that night in LA.

Reminds me of an old Habs joke: "Jesus Saves but Shutt scored on the tip in"

Another old trivia involving Steve Shutt.......he was instrumental into the formation of the band "Rush"! Him & Geddy Lee were old childhood friends & wanted to form a band but both of them wanted to play the bass. Shutt saw how good Geddy Lee was and went into hockey instead. Wise choice. Still, Lee was looking for a guitar player & Shutt had this *OTHER* childhood friend (they all went to the same high school) that he knew played the guitar so he introduced this guy to Lee. That guy turned out to be Alex Lifeson. True story!

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

So with the Canucks, I take the most issue with Pavel Bure's retirement, no matter how transformative he was as a player. He didn't stay in Vancouver long enough and if anything eschewed the community connection that this honor really represents. On top of that, his #10 was never treated as sacred (other guys wore it after he left) so by that point you've pretty much always lost the mystique. It still feels to me like a stunt to generate interest when the team was on a decline.

imo, there doesn't have to be one reason or criterion that jerseys in the rafters all share

for the community stuff, smyl, linden, and sedin were all extremely special human beings. of course they also share longtime leadership/captaincy and all led their teams to finals appearances.

with bure, even though i share some of your reservations about it, as i also do with luongo, i feel like it's more of a tribute to what the fanbase experienced and city's shared excitement during that time than it is to pavel bure the person. to get all sociological about it, this city changed so much in the early 90s post-expo and went from this rainy place that nobody cared about that's close to seattle to a place that the entire world looked at as one of the most beautiful cities in the world. when i think about going from tony tanti and petri skriko to pavel bure and that smythe division-leading pat quinn core, to me that really reflected how we came to understand this city and ourselves during those post-expo years.

when i think about pat quinn and linden, i think about a longterm investment in the city and the team as good community citizens that carried on through to the sedins and bieksa and burrows. but when i think about vancouver blossoming as vancouver the global destination, that to me is best reflected in the total excitement of bure in calendar year 1992, scoring a goal a game in the back half of his rookie year and taking the calder, then flirting with 50 in 50 and laying the groundwork for a 60 goal/100 pt season in the first half of his second year.

that said, i am the exact right age for bure-mania. did people a decade younger than me feel the same way about naslund's early 2000s run? it's hard for me to see but maybe i am not the demo for it.

i also will add that it always seemed totally wrong to me when i saw brad may or trevor letowski or tambo wearing #10. the only other example i can think of that just seemed wrong to me is seeing brent seabrook wear #7 in chicago.

 

[DFAC]

Honestly, I think the only numbers that should be up in the rafters are 16,22,33 and 1.

 

[LuckyDay]

Reminds me of an old Habs joke: "Jesus Saves but Shutt scored on the tip in"

Another old trivia involving Steve Shutt.......he was instrumental into the formation of the band "Rush"! Him & Geddy Lee were old childhood friends & wanted to form a band but both of them wanted to play the bass. Shutt saw how good Geddy Lee was and went into hockey instead. Wise choice. Still, Lee was looking for a guitar player & Shutt had this *OTHER* childhood friend (they all went to the same high school) that he knew played the guitar so he introduced this guy to Lee. That guy turned out to be Alex Lifeson. True story!

lol. I made an error. Shutt's sweater is hanging in Montreal. I meant to go back and edit that to HHoF.
Considering there's only 16 guys ahead of his 60 goals season and he did at a time when it was next to impossible, I can only think of Nichols and Mogilny that more that won't be in the HHoF either.

 

[elitepete]

if you have Naslund/Smyl retired Luongo 100% should be too

Lol you can’t just keep retiring numbers based off who was retired previously.

 

[Canuck Luck]

Lol you can’t just keep retiring numbers based off who was retired previously.

I agree a new precedent is needed however what precedent calls for a first ballot hall of Famer to not make the cut? How is he good enough for the hall but not this franchise’s rafters?

Of anything they should be pulling down the smyls/naslunds than rejecting the luongos

 

[elitepete]

I agree a new precedent is needed however what precedent calls for a first ballot hall of Famer to not make the cut? How is he good enough for the hall but not this franchise’s rafters?

Of anything they should be pulling down the smyls/naslunds than rejecting the luongos

They should not be pulling down anything. That would be ridiculous disrespect.

Luongo is a first ballot hall of famer but only played 8 years of that hall of fame career here. We had a deep run with him but we didn’t win the cup and he had a lot of bad performances over the years in the playoffs.

That being said, he is really close and if he played like 2-3 more years with us OR won a Vezina as a Canuck, I would say retire his jersey.

 

[Hit the post]

They should not be pulling down anything. That would be ridiculous disrespect.

Luongo is a first ballot hall of famer but only played 8 years of that hall of fame career here. We had a deep run with him but we didn’t win the cup and he had a lot of bad performances over the years in the playoffs.

That being said, he is really close and if he played like 2-3 more years with us OR won a Vezina as a Canuck, I would say retire his jersey.

I seriously question whether he'd be in the Hall of Fame if he had played those 8 years in Florida.