Player Discussion Canucks sign D Tyler Myers to 5-Year, $30m Deal ($6m AAV) | Part 2

[Pip]

hindsight is more than 20/20 sometimes. it should be a requirement of people posting that this proves anything about the dman ufa market that they link to their posts commenting on value at the time meyers, stralman and edler were signed.

1. handedness is definitely relevant. right handed dmen are rarer and more in demand and hence highly unlikely to slip through the ufa cracks for an entire offseason until they have to take a discount like gardiner just did. what very likely happened here is that gardiner missed the market. the cap situation of teams after they addressed higher priorities than left hand dmen with questionable defense closed off his options

2. the alternate explanation to missing the market is that gardiner's defensive issues are a bigger concern for nhl teams than people assume, which probably related to the situations and minutes they think they can play him. again, that does not in any way reflect on or prove anything about other dmen.

3. top 4 dmen are still incredibly valuable. there is no new depressed market value for top 4 dmen established by this single signing. there is an asterix. even if there were, it would be a brand new valuation nobody expected and it was not in effect when stralman and meyers were signed.

4. on edler, the canucks were backed into taking edler as a legacy who wanted to retire here coming off a great season. they couldn't not sign him and they couldn't give him a pay cut. given that scenario the issue was term and they did fine.

Sure we can throw out a bunch of excuses but there’s no point in excusing someone who consistently makes costly misjudgments. The simple answer here is that Jimbo overpaid Myers.

 

[Numba9]

I would absolutely love to know what Myers would have signed for if we weren't interested. There was basically zero talk of any other interest elsewhere and we're apparently the only team he met with personally.

This is BS, Myers himself said there were more teams at his press conference.

 

[MS]

This is BS, Myers himself said there were more teams at his press conference.

What does that mean? Lots of teams are apparently interested in Hutton, too. Lots talked to Gardiner.

Touching base with a guy and actually making a big offer are two different things and we heard nothing about strong interest from anywhere else. And no meetings with anyone else.

And again, I'm not sure and am speculating and maybe I'm wrong. But I suspect we cleared any other offer by $10 million, and would say the same thing about other stupid signings like Zuccarello.

 

[krutovsdonut]

Sure we can throw out a bunch of excuses but there’s no point in excusing someone who consistently makes costly misjudgments. The simple answer here is that Jimbo overpaid Myers.

i agree we overpaid meyers on value, and also slightly overpaid him on ufa market value, which are two different metrics. his value to the team, if you ignore scarcity, is certainly lower.

but that opinion has nothing to do with what gardiner just got paid. to me gardiner is an anomaly driven either driven by a widespread negative assessment around the league at odds with his offensive production and the assessment of fans, or, more likely, by the artificial distortion to the marketplace caused by the salary cap. basically, i think it just so happened that no team in the 2019 offseason needed a left hand dman with gardiner's qualities badly enough to take on his cap hit.

 

[WTG]

Gardiner went for 4x4 and I think I might take Gardiner over Myers straight up.

Benning mistakenly pulling the trigger way too early.
Why doesn't he just wait to sign UFAs? Remember when he signed Sutter to that contract right away instead of waiting for him to play the season and then signing him.

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

Yikes, looks like ole Jimbo misjudged the market and overpaid for a UFA. It’s not like this has happened multiple times before and he should have learned from it though.

 

[WTG]

Alright, playing devils advocate.
NC has a flat income tax rate.

I don't think it makes it acceptable. But it is a major factor.

 

[F A N]

Uh, Hamhuis was a #1 defender.

Bieksa was a #2.

These were core players on elite teams. Hamhuis was a 2014 Olympian.

What about Garrison? Do you mean to say that Bieksa was a a #2 without Hamhuis?

 

[Bertuzzzi44]

Should’ve let Edler walk, would much rather have Gardiner at 5M x 4

 

[EpochLink]

Here’s to a good year for Tyler Myers.
I’m rooting for this guy.

 

[MS]

What about Garrison? Do you mean to say that Bieksa was a a #2 without Hamhuis?

Bieksa was playing 23-24 minutes/game on the best team in the NHL. He was clearly a very good #2 in his prime.

Garrison was a good #2-3 guy his first 1.5 years here and for a couple years in Florida before that. Then groin issues limited his mobility. But at the time he was signed, he was coming off a year as Florida's #2 defender playing 23-24 minutes/game on a playoff team and basically duplicated that in his first year here.

 

[Hoghandler]

Signing Myers to that contract should be a fireable offense.

Weren't there reports that Steve Yzerman offered more for Myers than we did but he chose Vancouver? If that were true, do you fire Yzerman on the spot?

 

[Hoghandler]

Not a fan of the Myers contract, but this Gardiner signing has no bearing on the Myers situation at all.

This signing reflects poorly on 2 people, Kyle Dubas and Lawrence Gilman. They just paid a vastly inferior player in Cody Ceci more than Gardiner, while Gardiner would have apparently taken less to play in Toronto. Can you imagine trying to win a cup and having your GM let a guy like Gardiner walk, only to turn around and give that money and then some to a trainwreck like Ceci? While having to pay through the nose to replace Gardiner's offence in a subsequent deal. While having no foresight and letting Gardiner walk for nothing. What a complete disaster this has been for the Leafs and their cap management. Since Gilman has arrived in Toronto their cap/contract work has been dreadful.

What a kick in the teeth for the Leafs. Scary to think how good that contract would have looked if he was willing to take less than what the Hurricanes gave him. Wow.

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

Weren't there reports that Steve Yzerman offered more for Myers than we did but he chose Vancouver? If that were true, do you fire Yzerman on the spot?

If Yzerman had the same history of blunders as Benning does, then yes absolutely.

 

[GetFocht]

you guys realize it was either Edler or Gardiner, not Myers or Gardiner right?

I would rather have Edler at 2 years than Gardiner at 4 years who has sustained major back issues, is prone to very weak defensive plays, and gets pushed around. There's a reason why other NHL teams didn't offer him more than 4 million per.

 

[y2kcanucks]

Weren't there reports that Steve Yzerman offered more for Myers than we did but he chose Vancouver? If that were true, do you fire Yzerman on the spot?

Pretty sure you just made that up

 

[RandV]

I don't think the Gardiner signing necessarily makes the Myers signing worse, just because it basically does that to everyone so makes it an exception contract. But it does play a counterpoint to the idea that Benning got a good deal on Myers because a lot of fans/media were expecting something like $7M/6 and he signed $6M/5. GM's just showed a bit more restraint this past July 1st than you usually see so it brought the price of most players down. The Myers/Ferland contracts are a beneficiary of the teams lack of cap space coinciding with a lack of bidding competition from the rest of the league.

 

[krutovsdonut]

you guys realize it was either Edler or Gardiner, not Myers or Gardiner right?

I would rather have Edler at 2 years than Gardiner at 4 years who has sustained major back issues, is prone to very weak defensive plays, and gets pushed around. There's a reason why other NHL teams didn't offer him more than 4 million per.

apart from the term, given that we have hughes and maybe even juolevi on the left side at some point, edler fits our needs far better than gardiner.

 

[krutovsdonut]

Weren't there reports that Steve Yzerman offered more for Myers than we did but he chose Vancouver? If that were true, do you fire Yzerman on the spot?

uh, what reports?

 

[Hoghandler]

uh, what reports?

Seem to recall it was either from the Myers signing thread on the main board, or on the Wings board. Pretty sure it was from a Wings fan, because the tone was pretty negative over Yzerman's involvement.

 

[forty47seven]

Seem to recall it was either from the Myers signing thread on the main board, or on the Wings board. Pretty sure it was from a Wings fan, because the tone was pretty negative over Yzerman's involvement.

”We’re looking at doing shorter-term deals with everyone that we spoke with,” Yzerman said Monday. ”Being new to the organization, I want to proceed somewhat slowly and kind of get to know what we have within the organization.”

Red Wings GM Steve Yzerman practices patience in free agency

 

[TomP24684]

Pretty sure you just made that up

If he didn’t make it up I am sure he will be kind enough to present them.

 

[y2kcanucks]

Seem to recall it was either from the Myers signing thread on the main board, or on the Wings board. Pretty sure it was from a Wings fan, because the tone was pretty negative over Yzerman's involvement.

So in other words, it was made up. Got it. Next?

 

[Verviticus]

The market is comprised of 31 GMs, not the media. 1 GM thought it would be a good idea to pay a #4 dman #1 money.

With Gardiner, 31 GMs decided that he would get 4M AAV. What’s the difference? Hint: It’s not solely handedness as you stated earlier.

it’s because nhl gms are extremely stupid and bad at their jobs

 

[Hoghandler]

If he didn’t make it up I am sure he will be kind enough to present them.

Not spending 3 hours trying to find a quote, only to have it be ignored if I can track it down.

A few weeks back when I said the Islanders offered a 1st rd pick for JT Miller at the draft there were 10 people calling BS and clamouring for a source. Another poster eventually spoke up that the source was legit. The people clamouring for the source never said another word in the thread and refused to acknowledge it.