Player Discussion Canucks sign D Tyler Myers to 5-Year, $30m Deal ($6m AAV) | Part 2

[Bleach Clean]

I'm just going to get to this because it seems like the meat of our back & forth.

Before that though, I did see the chart this time around & I'm glad you posted it. Admittedly as not a huge analytics hockey fan, I find it interesting that only one team in the league is above the postive/negative. Though its really not a good look where we rank, in a perfect world I'd like to see us doing much better. I'm not oblivious to our inefficiencies.

Yes. If what your saying is what your saying. I agree with it.

I am choosing to grade it on a curve, I don't think I've made that totally unclear. It is totally an indictment of what has come before, I've said that a number of times, even laid out the bad deals on this team and how poorly our cap has been spent in me laying out the 20 million we spent last year on bottom 6 players.

Why is it that I can't be unhappy with Eriksson & giving up a first round pick, while being happy we added a top 4D. I just try to judge every move honestly as I see it. I'm not ignoring that its an overpayment, or inefficiency analytically, I'm just stating its spent on an important need & that I would actually like to see the team make a significant improvement on the ice.

I get the inefficiency, but as your chart showed it seems like every team has some kind of inefficiency. And if thats not the case why is only 1 team in the league positive??? This is an important question I have for you.

I respect your opinion & I feel like I have nothing to hide here. I think I've laid my stance out. I guess beyond this it comes down to an overall analytics debate which I don't feel is my battle here honestly.

I too respect your opinion. My higher level of engagement with your posts, I hope, speaks to this.

You're right, the chart shows absolute inefficiency across the league. Meaning, most teams do not sign adequately efficient contracts. However, the Canucks are relatively worse in this regard. Really, it's about degree. The Canucks are one of the most inefficient teams in the league at signing players per this analysis. That's not good.

What's ultimately damning is that they don't necessarily have to be. Bad teams can make relatively efficient rosters. As shown by teams like NJ and LA.

To bring this back to Myers: I too think they needed defensive help, but I can't justify that help coming by way of a poor contract. To me, the player and the contract are always tied. There's no separation when judging value. To you, they are separate enough to isolate roster value only. I don't know how that can be done if salary is not ignored? Once you acknowledge salary, the rest is informed by that initial judgement.

 

[Sergei Shirokov]

I too respect your opinion. My higher level of engagement with your posts, I hope, speak to this.

You're right, the chart shows absolute inefficiency across the league. Meaning, most teams do not sign adequately efficient contracts. However, the Canucks are relatively worse in this regard. It's about degree. The Canucks are one of the most inefficient teams in the league at signing players.

What's ultimately damning is that they don't necessarily have to be. Bad teams can make relatively efficient rosters.

To bring this back to Myers: I too think they needed defensive help, but I can't justify that help coming by way of a poor contract. To me, the player and contract are always tied. There's no separation when judging value. To you, they are separate enough to isolate roster value only. I don't know how that can be done if salary is not ignored? Once you acknowledge salary, the rest is informed by that initial judgement.

I just come into it with the expectation/hope that Myers can be somewhere along the lines of what we've signed him too be. Like I've articulated earlier, I realize sometimes teams in our position need to over pay to attract players, and I don't think this case is any different. I don't think my message has ever been that Myers was a bargain or even totally worth his deal. And I don't think I've been entirely ignoring contracts, I definitely give you that. I do think in some cases these guys can make a difference despite the over-payment.

At this point (now that I've seen him play on our team). It's becoming harder from my initial standpoint. It's just pre-season, things can be different from pre-season to regular season, but I am wondering where Myers fits.

I still think Myers can be a useful player for us, you can see his offensive skill & we definitely need that. But I'm definitely wondering about who he needs to play with. I don't think him & Hughes are a great fit, and I've never thought he's top a pair guy.

I'm still reserving some judgement since its pre-season, but Ill admit I'm wondering about Myers role 5 on 5. Offensively I still think he'll add to this team, but with Hughes & Edler as top 2 LHD, I do wonder.

I respect your opinions aswell, hopefully we can continue to have good discussions as the year goes along. I'll just try to be honest about my opinions as things go along. And that's all I can do.

 

[PG Canuck]

Some of the defensive plays this guy makes leaves me scratching my head. For how big he is, he was pretty soft on some plays in his own end. I haven’t seen any other games so I am praying he isn’t as bad as what I saw.

 

[CanucksMJL]

Some of the defensive plays this guy makes leaves me scratching my head. For how big he is, he was pretty soft on some plays in his own end. I haven’t seen any other games so I am praying he isn’t as bad as what I saw.

My inner homer wants to believe I didn't just witness what I saw from him tonight. He needs to see what's actually available to him and not make panic plays. Maybe Baertschi can hook him up with some guided meditations, because with his size and reach he could play a relatively chill game and cutoff many opposition opportunities.

For my own well being I will chalk this one up to just needing to know his teammates better and the simple safe play will come more naturally in time.

 

[Hoglander]

Excuses for this guy are going run out even quicker than I thought. We knew he wasn't a legit top 4 guy, we knew he was not worth even close to 6 mil, but not even I thought he would be this bad in preseason. Blown coverage everywhere, Jake Gardiner-esque giveaways, soft play after soft play... my God. What's going to happen in 2 seasons, when his skating drops off? Louie Eriksson on defense?

 

[sting101]

Excuses for this guy are going run out even quicker than I thought. We knew he wasn't a legit top 4 guy, we knew he was not worth even close to 6 mil, but not even I thought he would be this bad in preseason. Blown coverage everywhere, Jake Gardiner-esque giveaways, soft play after soft play... my God. What's going to happen in 2 seasons, when his skating drops off? Louie Eriksson on defense?

Shirokov?

 

[Canucko]

Excuses for this guy are going run out even quicker than I thought. We knew he wasn't a legit top 4 guy, we knew he was not worth even close to 6 mil, but not even I thought he would be this bad in preseason. Blown coverage everywhere, Jake Gardiner-esque giveaways, soft play after soft play... my God. What's going to happen in 2 seasons, when his skating drops off? Louie Eriksson on defense?

Maybe, but I’d personally like to wait until he plays at least 1 regular season game before considering this.

 

[Bertuzzzi44]

Some of the defensive plays this guy makes leaves me scratching my head. For how big he is, he was pretty soft on some plays in his own end. I haven’t seen any other games so I am praying he isn’t as bad as what I saw.

Noticed this too. He seems to need time and space to be effective and plays well when the team is dictating but seems to have trouble when the team is hemmed in. Overall has been decent.

 

[F A N]

Excuses for this guy are going run out even quicker than I thought. We knew he wasn't a legit top 4 guy, we knew he was not worth even close to 6 mil, but not even I thought he would be this bad in preseason. Blown coverage everywhere, Jake Gardiner-esque giveaways, soft play after soft play... my God. What's going to happen in 2 seasons, when his skating drops off? Louie Eriksson on defense?

Were you expecting him to have a good preseason compared to the regular season?

 

[VanJack]

Jimbo's track record of trading for, or signing UFA d-men would be laughable, if it didn't have so much negative impact on the Canucks cap situation.

Maybe Myers will be different....but then again, maybe not.

 

[Grub]

My god its only the pre-season... give Myers some time.

 

[orcatown]

Have to wait for a bigger sample size and such... but he was awful in Abbotsford. Maybe he was trying too hard but he completely over-rushed plays and seemed to have no command in his end. Worse than that was the way he got pushed off pucks and out-positioned around his net. You always knew Pouliot was good for a couple of boners every game but Myers, tonight, was making them near every shift.

Rarely seen a player with a quicker panic point.

 

[timw33]

Rarely seen a player with a quicker panic point.

It's a good quality to have for our eventual playoff runs.

 

[Addison Rae]

My god its only the pre-season... give Myers some time.

People aren’t basing their decisions on the pre-season their basing it on the 100’s of games of data we already have.

 

[elitepete]

Have to wait for a bigger sample size and such... but he was awful in Abbotsford. Maybe he was trying too hard but he completely over-rushed plays and seemed to have no command in his end. Worse than that was the way he got pushed off pucks and out-positioned around his net. You always knew Pouliot was good for a couple of boners every game but Myers, tonight, was making them near every shift.

Rarely seen a player with a quicker panic point.

colour me surprised

 

[absolute garbage]

Maybe, but I’d personally like to wait until he plays at least 1 regular season game before considering this.

You do know that he has played 635 regular season games in the NHL right?

 

[Canucks1096]

The story goes like this, Stecher starts on the third pairing. The two D playing infront him are horrible or/get hurt and miss a lot of games. Stecher move in the top 4 and looks solid and stay there until the end of year. Maybe it happens again this year as well.

 

[tantalum]

My god its only the pre-season... give Myers some time.

Sure, however this isn't a case of a veteran player coming over from Europe where we don't really know what he is capable of. This is a 29 years old NHL vet with 600+ games under his belt. A player with well known strengths and weaknesses. Those were on display last night. It was likely a particularly bad game, sure I can buy that. But his weaknesses are real and at 29 years of age (30 in Feb) he's not getting any faster while the league is. His play has been dropping the last few years and I don't expect that trend to reverse itself. It could. Hope it does. But I doubt it. And further, even with the problems the Jets have right now on the backend I still don't think they care he's gone.

 

[Canucko]

You do know that he has played 635 regular season games in the NHL right?

How many of those games was he wearing a Canucks uniform?

 

[M2Beezy]

For any remaining little bit of defense of Benning will be judged on this signing. Preseason does NOT 100% guarantee whatll happen but this really could be Eriksson v2.0

 

[Diamonddog01]

It was obvious this contract was brutal before the ink dried, now it's just a matter of determining how awful this player will be.

 

[absolute garbage]

How many of those games was he wearing a Canucks uniform?

Why would the color of the fabric he's wearing change anything?

 

[Cheeks Clapinski]

How many of those games was he wearing a Canucks uniform?

I must have forgotten that players just magically play better than they have historically once they put on the orca sweater

 

[Hit the post]

I must have forgotten that players just magically play better than they have historically once they put on the orca sweater

Anson Carter - career high in goals - once he donned the Orca jersey. Quickly goes to obscurity the moment he leaves the organization.

Another win by the greatest Canuck GM of all time - Dave Nonis.

 

[tantalum]

I must have forgotten that players just magically play better than they have historically once they put on the orca sweater

To be fair it can happen but it's not the change in jersey that does it. Rather, a new team may put the player in a better spot to exploit his talents and minimize his weaknesses. So for Myers that would likely require a good amount of PP time and playing him 5-on-5 against 3rd and 4th line competition. Though for this contract you shouldn't need to do that but that is what will have to be done for his tenure to be a "success" (on paper).

For Gudbranson it would have meant putting him the pressbox.

The issue is, even if that is the tactic the coaching staff take, once injuries hit he'll be expected to provide more and he'll struggle. So history suggests. That's why I don't think the Jets are concerned over losing Myers even today. They weren't going to be able to count on him to provide that elevated play so they figured" what's the point in paying for that?"