Confirmed with Link: Canucks sign C Teddy Blueger to 1-Year, $1.9M Deal

[bossram]

You don't think this is a tad reductive?

JFresh basically sucks, but it's about what you do with the information he provides.

Many people these days on hfboards post a JFresh graphic and then brush off their hands like their point has been made.

But in terms of showing what a player's impact was on a specific team/what role he was playing when it's also reinforced by the eye-test?

Nobody thinks that having more information is bad. It's just in how it's used and how lightly it is presented.

No, this is essentially how most people react to JFresh charts.

I view them as useful pieces of information, but to be interpreted at the viewer's discretion. I'm one of the bigger analytics proponents here, but even I don't completely "buy" that the models that attempt to isolate player performance like RAPM and HockeyViz's Isolated Impact are doing it that accurately. But they are interesting pieces of information and inform my opinions.

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

No, this is essentially how most people react to JFresh charts.

I view them as useful pieces of information, but to be interpreted at the viewer's discretion. I'm one of the bigger analytics proponents here, but even I don't completely "buy" that the models that attempt to isolate player performance like RAPM and HockeyViz's Isolated Impact are doing it that accurately. But they are interesting pieces of information and inform my opinions.

This is not 'essentially how most people react to JFresh charts'.

Those sorts of things are best used to support the eye-test, or else to draw attention to irregularities that one can then suss out through further research/watching.

So when the consensus on Blueger is backed up by his JFresh chart, then people are going to nod and say, 'yup, checks out'.

Your scenario seems to dictate that having seen that chart we should now be screaming that Blueger is actually Mike Hoffman incarnate because if we don't love JFresh we must immediately oppose any info he provides?

 

[bossram]

This is not 'essentially how most people react to JFresh charts'.

Those sorts of things are best used to support the eye-test, or else to draw attention to irregularities that one can then suss out through further research/watching.

So when the consensus on Blueger is backed up by his JFresh chart, then people are going to nod and say, 'yup, checks out'.

Your scenario seems to dictate that having seen that chart we should now be screaming that Blueger is actually Mike Hoffman incarnate because if we don't love JFresh we must immediately oppose any info he provides?

I have no idea what you're even arguing. Yeah, people love JFresh when he says their player is good. They don't like it when he says their player is bad. That is how people react.

The consensus on Blueger beforehand is that he's a defensively responsible center that should probably be your 4C, not 3C. He ended up being Vegas' 5C.

If someone throws up a JFresh chart saying he's ~50th percentile in WAR, that does not convince me that "hey he's pretty good and could be a 3C!"

I feel like you just want to argue with me just to try and find me in some kind of "gotcha" scenario or something. I don't get it. I posted my thoughts on the Blueger signing earlier and I think they were fair and generally positive:

Ehh, I wouldn't say Blueger is a 3C. The AAV is a touch high, but I'm not really complaining. Bluegers will help where the Canucks need help: PK and defensive awareness.

But he's not a 3C. Probably should be on the 4th line.

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

I have no idea what you're even arguing. Yeah, people love JFresh when he says their player is good. They don't like it when he says their player is bad. That is how people react.

The consensus on Blueger beforehand is that he's a defensively responsible center that should probably be your 4C, not 3C. He ended up being Vegas' 5C.

If someone throws up a JFresh chart saying he's ~50th percentile in WAR, that does not convince me that "hey he's pretty good and could be a 3C!"

I feel like you just want to argue with me just to try and find me in some kind of "gotcha" scenario or something. I don't get it. I posted my thoughts on the Blueger signing earlier and I think they were fair and generally positive:

You have no idea what I'm arguing? I don't think it was complex.

I didn't really have a problem with your take on Blueger, I basically agree with it.

Someone posted a JFresh chart and everyone was like, 'yup, that's what he's known to be'.

And you decided to ride to JFresh's rescue by shoe-horning in something about how people love him when he's positive about their players and hate him when he's negative and I just called that reductive. I stand by it.

Trying to isolate single player impacts with publicly available data is a hilarious undertaking as it is. But the smugness JFresh does it with and the way his charts are spread around like gospel really rubs people the wrong way. His charts have a lot of shortcomings.

This does not mean that the info he provides is never useful.

That's it. That's the point. I'm not going for a 'gotcha'. Why would I? What would I get out of that. I'm simply disagreeing with what you stated and then doubled down on.

 

[wavaxa2]

I really wonder why he dropped the s from his last name. Every other Latvian seems to have kept the s. What other secrets can he be hiding?

 

[Petey But Really Jim]

The real question - does he take Bo Horvat’s old #53?

I believe he’s worn that number exclusively throughout his career thus far.

He had better f***ing be assigned it! Bo is not that guy.

 

[bossram]

You have no idea what I'm arguing? I don't think it was complex.

I didn't really have a problem with your take on Blueger, I basically agree with it.

Someone posted a JFresh chart and everyone was like, 'yup, that's what he's known to be'.

And you decided to ride to JFresh's rescue by shoe-horning in something about how people love him when he's positive about their players and hate him when he's negative and I just called that reductive. I stand by it.

Trying to isolate single player impacts with publicly available data is a hilarious undertaking as it is. But the smugness JFresh does it with and the way his charts are spread around like gospel really rubs people the wrong way. His charts have a lot of shortcomings.

This does not mean that the info he provides is never useful.

That's it. That's the point. I'm not going for a 'gotcha'. Why would I? What would I get out of that. I'm simply disagreeing with what you stated and then doubled down on.

You're disagreeing with me saying...that I don't take JFresh charts at face value? That I try to think about the information presented. Um, alright.

If anything, I was being more critical of JFresh charts in this thread. It's why your argument with me is so bizarre, as is per usual with you.

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

You're disagreeing with me saying...that I don't take JFresh charts at face value? That I try to think about the information presented. Um, alright.

If anything, I was being more critical of JFresh charts in this thread. It's why your argument with me is so bizarre, as is per usual with you.

No, I was taking issue with your bland blanket statement that everyone who criticizes JFresh is doing so simply due to confirmation bias.

I'm not sure why that's confusing, but if that's how you see the world I'm sure lots of things look bizarre to you.

 

[bossram]

No, I was taking issue with your bland blanket statement that everyone who criticizes JFresh is doing so simply due to confirmation bias.

I'm not sure why that's confusing, but if that's how you see the world I'm sure lots of things look bizarre to you.

Is it your genuine goal to be as confrontational and condescending as possible in every interaction on this forum?

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

Is it your genuine goal to be as confrontational and condescending as possible in every interaction on this forum?

No, and I'm not saying I'm never confrontational or condescending, but I think many would also levy a similar criticism towards you, so where does that leave us?

And like I said, there are times I have been needlessly condescending and at times I have apologized for that.

But often what gets called 'condescending' is just forcing someone to defend some ignorant blanket statement that they make and then want the echo chamber to clap for them.

 

[F A N]

Hearing Allvin talk about Blueger's faceoff stats must be triggering for some.

I'm a bit on the fence about this trade. He fills a need and it's only 1 year. I do have the sinking feeling that we (once again) overpaid for a 4C who can PK. Penguins fans seem to think he sucked since his jaw injury.

Personally prefer to have kept Dickinson and our 2nd instead.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Hearing Allvin talk about Blueger's faceoff stats must be triggering for some.

I'm a bit on the fence about this trade. He fills a need and it's only 1 year. I do have the sinking feeling that we (once again) overpaid for a 4C who can PK. Penguins fans seem to think he sucked since his jaw injury.

Personally prefer to have kept Dickinson and our 2nd instead.

Its a low risk bet.

If there was term involved I might worry a tiny bit. But there is not. He can be flipped with retention at the TDL if all goes to shit.

 

[geebster]

Now we just need to find a Greenger, Redger, etc so we can complete the set.

 

[Tim Calhoun]

Wait, he’s from LATVIA?!

 

[andora]

Your scenario seems to dictate that having seen that chart we should now be screaming that Blueger is actually Mike Hoffman incarnate because if we don't love JFresh we must immediately oppose any info he provides?

I think he is saying, hmm interesting difference in the last two years.. lets look at a couple things. I wonder if he had an ice time or linemate change in those years.. how were his injuries etc..

Basically lets look for more context

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

I think he is saying, hmm interesting difference in the last two years.. lets look at a couple things. I wonder if he had an ice time or linemate change in those years.. how were his injuries etc..

Basically lets look for more context

Which I'm basically always a proponent of.

 

[Vector]

Wait, he’s from LATVIA?!

Why you think I keep calling him a SECRET LATVIAN?

 

[Zippgunn]

Wait, he’s from LATVIA?!

Never can have too many Latvians. He'll be the, what, 6th Latvian to suit up for us?

 

[RobertKron]

You guys are really not grasping the secret part of secret.

 

[Vector]

Never can have too many Latvians. He'll be the, what, 6th Latvian to suit up for us?

6 is correct.

 

[krutovsdonut]

Not a 3C on a good team.

He's either Aman insurance or management decided they couldn't find one so they'll just use him as a stopgap.

why pay $1.9m then?

i think they plan to start him on every pk they can and spell him in for faceoffs like they did with bo and beagle and get his minutes up to about 15. one thing aman cannot do so far is win a faceoff so blueger will get a lot of the dzone starts.

 

[HairyKneel]

why pay $1.9m then?

i think they plan to start him on every pk they can and spell him in for faceoffs like they did with bo and beagle and get his minutes up to about 15. one thing aman cannot do so far is win a faceoff so blueger will get a lot of the dzone starts.

He will not play 15 min here other than here or there if there’s a lot of penalties against. He will be an 11 or 12 min guy on avg. Miller and Peter will play 20 min each and Aman will pick up the scraps …… for now.

 

[krutovsdonut]

6 is correct.

i get kenins, silovs, irbe, skudra, and blueger. abols for exhibition games?

 

[Vector]

i get kenins, silovs, irbe, skudra, and blueger. abols for exhibition games?

Herberts Vasiljevs

 

[krutovsdonut]

He will not play 15 min here other than here or there if there’s a lot of penalties against. He will be an 11 or 12 min guy on avg. Miller and Peter will play 20 min each and Aman will pick up the scraps …… for now.

miller gets 3 minutes of ice time each game on the wing during the pp, so his 20 minutes is more like 17 as centre even if he plays 100% centre at es which he does not. i will also speculate his pk time will drop off if they have another centre who can win a face off, but he and ep had something going with the pk late last year so maybe not.

Herberts Vasiljevs

i have no recall of that guy. solid work.