Confirmed with Link: Canucks re-sign F Darren Archibald to 1-Year, Two-Way Deal ($650k/$250k)

[Ace of Hades]

It’s just like a few years ago when many posters on here lost their minds over the fact that Benning couldn’t get atleast a 2nd round pick for Eddie Lack. The league wide perception at the time was that Eddie Lack was a back-up goalie.....and was a slight tier below the likes of Robin Lehner and Cam Talbot. Hence, a 3rd rounder and 7th rounder. Time has proven that Lack was actually below the calibre of NHL back-up.

Similarly, many posters on here are angry because their misguided “JD Burke/HF” perception is vastly different from the perception of the NHL market.

Archibald is not a good 4th line NHL player as the “braintrust” on here would have you believe. Archibald is an AHL calibre player that should only get a sniff of the NHL when there are injuries.

Your comparison is invalid.

Also because one outlier you desperately had to bring in, clearly tells the story.

Benning has made several blunders where his perception was competely non-realistic and mind numblingly stupid. Such as the case of classifying a 4th line C as a "foundational player". I can go on and on, but you somehow had to deflect the blame to the fans of the team, rather than the GM himself is pretty absurd.

The fact is that Archibald showed he was 4th line NHL calibre the season he last played for.

You are simply misguided when it comes to Archibald's classification as a player, and in regards to the performance given by Archibald as if he's just an "Ahler" throughout despite the fact he outplayed some of our other bottom 6 players (who are gifted contract spots based on past achievements and rep) and showed to be NHL calibre.

If Archibald continues to play the way he performed last season, he deserves a 4th line spot simply because he is effective, provides grit than most players on the team and can bring attributes that the team lacks while being cheap.

 

[Askel]

And thats the thing if your 4th line makes a low amount, you have the cap space to overpay to get good players who makes the team better. Paying 7.9 million for a 4th line is stupid. Washington payed less 3 million for their 4th line, this made it possible for them to win even with the stupid Orpik contract on the books.

Its better to pay the good players, 4th liners are always available for low money.

 

[Horse McHindu]

Your comparison is invalid.

Also because one outlier you desperately had to bring in, clearly tells the story.

Benning has made several blunders where his perception was competely non-realistic and mind numblingly stupid. Such as the case of classifying a 4th line C as a "foundational player". I can go on and on, but you somehow had to deflect the blame to the fans of the team, rather than the GM himself is pretty absurd.

The fact is that Archibald showed he was 4th line NHL calibre the season he last played for.

You are simply misguided when it comes to Archibald's classification as a player, and in regards to the performance given by Archibald as if he's just an "Ahler" throughout despite the fact he outplayed some of our other bottom 6 players (who are gifted contract spots based on past achievements and rep) and showed to be NHL calibre.

If Archibald continues to play the way he performed last season, he deserves a 4th line spot simply because he is effective, provides grit than most players on the team and can bring attributes that the team lacks while being cheap.

Few things:

1) Sutter is a very good 3rd line C and proved it last year. Yes he is overpaid, but he is very good at what he does when deployed correctly (as he was last year)

2) every single GM in the leagues disagrees with you on Archibald just as they did three years ago with the JD Burke crew with regards to Eddie Lack.

 

[David Bruce Banner]

I like Archie, but my hopes that he can manage to find a 4th line niche on the Canucks have diminished to nearly nil. It's too bad, he's shown some flashes of potential, but they tend to disappear soon after he gets promoted.
If he could be the guy he was for the first couple of games after getting called up last year, he'd be a fan favourite.

 

[MS]

The sad part is that hes most likely an upgrade over Roussell and yet the idiot thought it would be amazing to sign the inferior player to a larger contract worth more money given the rat from Dallas is now his new shiny toy.

Yup.

Player A gets called up to our team, earns a role on a high-leverage 3rd line and excels at both ends of the rink. Back to the minors for you!

Player B gets demoted from the 3rd line to the 4th line of another team, plays like absolute crap, and finishes the year on a 43-game goalless drought. $13 million contract for you!

 

[MS]

If Benning was the only GM interested in Roussell you might have a point. But reports are that numerous teams made offers. I don't know who those other teams are, so possibly they are all bad GMs.

I also think it's a safe assumption that no GM offered Archibald a 1way deal. That means none of the good GMs viewed Archibald as an every day NHLer, neither did any of the bad ones.

Just acknowledge that your statement that Archibald is "most likely an upgrade on Roussell " is not supported by the market, and we can get back to celebrating Archibald being back with the organization.

The NHL market is not grounded in who is actually the better player as it's determined by idiots like Jim Benning who have no ability to actually evaluate talent and evaluate what's happening in a hockey game. Do we really have to go through the whole Vegas success story again?

Roussel is getting paid because dinosaurs still value face-punching and for what he did 3-4 years ago. Archibald isn't getting paid because bad GMs can't pro scout to save their lives and he's been typecast as a minor-leaguer.

Darren Archibald was a better NHL player than Antoine Roussel last year, and it wasn't even close. If you're arguing this, you are wrong.

 

[Horse McHindu]

Yup.

Player A gets called up to our team, earns a role on a high-leverage 3rd line and excels at both ends of the rink. Back to the minors for you!

LOL, c'mon man.

So you're honestly telling me that Archibald was that good..........and that you're seeing something that apparently, every single member of the coaching staff in Vancouver, and every single GM in the league, has clearly overlooked.

 

[MS]

LOL, c'mon man.

So you're honestly telling me that Archibald was that good..........and that you're seeing something that apparently, every single member of the coaching staff in Vancouver, and every single GM in the league, has clearly overlooked.

I have no idea what every GM thinks and no idea what our coaching staff thinks.

But yes, he was that effective.

He played 15 minutes/game on a high leverage checking line next to Sutter that sawed off goal differentials despite having the toughest usage in the NHL. That line was the biggest bright spot in the 2nd half of our season.

He scored at a 27-point ES pace which is exceptional for his usage (Baertschi just got $10 million for scoring at a 30-point ES pace from the #1 line).

He was a PK unit regular who generated amongst the better results of our teams' forwards.

He was on pace for 243 hits/82 games which would make him one of the most physical players in the league and our most physical forward by a mile (that's more than the two 'tough' wingers we signed yesterday *combined* by the way).

If you can look at that mountain of evidence that this player was an effective 3rd line NHLer and then conclude he isn't even 4th line caliber ... I'm not sure what to say.

And I give zero shits about your appeals to authority about the market. These are the sort of idiots who traded 2/3 of one of the best #1 lines in the NHL to Vegas so they wouldn't lose a healthy scratch 7th defender.

 

[alternate]

Yeah, I don't think the market as a whole counts as an appeal to authority. "The sky isn't blue, and it's just an appeal to authority to say everyone agrees it is."

This is just Ryan Stanton all over again. @MS is smarter than every GM in the league who just don't see the potential gem if they just polish that fringe NHLer. Or, like say Vey or Granlund, the fringe NHLer is just the worst hockey player in the entire league. With MS, fringe NHLers are never just fringe NHLers that might improve, they're always the ultimate hidden gem, or the worst thing since boy bands. Long live the king of hyperbole!!


Edit: but nice to see MS acknowledge the high level of play Brandon Sutter played to finish last season.

 

[Chubros]

Regardless of what transpired, signing him is great.

If we want to set a foot in reality, we simply don't sign the 4th liner Rousell to begin with given the demands he laid out. He's not an upgrade over Archibald if we see the performance Russell threw out last season. He's already shown signs of regression which is likely given his age. If we are going to sign him, limit the term at the very least. If you can't do that, you look somewhere else or better yet internally from the organization.

As a Benning apologist, you can do better than that.

Why can't someone assess deals on here independently without being labelled one thing or another? To the great detriment of this forum, every thread immediately devolves into the same tired attack on management and those perceived as defending it. People need to learn to chill a little bit.

 

[MS]

Yeah, I don't think the market as a whole counts as an appeal to authority. "The sky isn't blue, and it's just an appeal to authority to say everyone agrees it is."

This is just Ryan Stanton all over again. @MS is smarter than every GM in the league who just don't see the potential gem if they just polish that fringe NHLer. Or, like say Vey or Granlund, the fringe NHLer is just the worst hockey player in the entire league. With MS, fringe NHLers are never just fringe NHLers that might improve, they're always the ultimate hidden gem, or the worst thing since boy bands. Long live the king of hyperbole!!


Edit: but nice to see MS acknowledge the high level of play Brandon Sutter played to finish last season.

So, no rebuttal at all to my comments on Archibald and Roussel?

And yes, absolutely Stanton performed at the level of a solid 3rd pairing defender here (such hyperbole!). And absolutely Linden Vey was garbage (like, doesn't absolutely everyone agree on this?). And Granlund is not a good NHLer.

And I've been consistently complimentary of Sutter all year.

 

[iceburg]

Fine with this as long as it's a 2 way deal which it sounds like it is. And the two way deal is more about the message than the money to me. It says he will be in Utica most of the time but available to be called up if necessary. This is Archibald's ceiling and it is a good fit.

 

[MS]

Fine with this as long as it's a 2 way deal which it sounds like it is. And the two way deal is more about the message than the money to me. It says he will be in Utica most of the time but available to be called up if necessary. This is Archibald's ceiling and it is a good fit.

How is this his 'ceiling' when he played literally miles above that and was very effective last year?

Is Jonathan Marchessault's ceiling a 2nd line winger?

 

[iceburg]

How is this his 'ceiling' when he played literally miles above that and was very effective last year?

Is Jonathan Marchessault's ceiling a 2nd line winger?

I know that's your opinion MS. And I respect it. As I said yesterday, in my view he was unable to maintain his intensity through the back half of his stint in Vancouver last year. He did some good things along with Sutter for sure but he faded. What he has shown to me is he can be an effective NHLer in short spurts. I know you disagree. We just see it differently.
Edit: I would say that age argument, that he is 28 and they should make room for younger players, has kinda gone out the window with the signings yesterday.

 

[mossey3535]

So, no rebuttal at all to my comments on Archibald and Roussel?

And yes, absolutely Stanton performed at the level of a solid 3rd pairing defender here (such hyperbole!). And absolutely Linden Vey was garbage (like, doesn't absolutely everyone agree on this?). And Granlund is not a good NHLer.

And I've been consistently complimentary of Sutter all year.

Because Sutter was used in the role he's suited to this year so it was easy to say, yes he is good at that.

It's going to be annoying this year with him as a 2C.

 

[mossey3535]

I think it's ironic that people and the media will go on and on about guys being "tough" based on reputation and just parroting what other people have said about them. Then Tryamkin and Archibald come in here and provide the real deal, but their performances are dismissed for some reason.

Meanwhile Guds is the epitome of "physicality" when all he does is get turnstiled and talk about being tough without actually doing it.

 

[John Belushi]

Look at the Canuck roster that started last season, and look at the roster that finished it. Injuries and unforeseen circumstances WILL happen. Guaranteed. This team cannot stay healthy to save its life and any talk of veteran signings blocking prospects is completely preliminary until we see how they perform in camp.

Depth is essential and finally this idiotic management team realizes this.

Eriksson, Sutter, Baertschi, Granlund.. all forwards that have missed a lengthy amount of time the past couple years. They will continue to miss time in 2018-2019, and its likely you'll see additions to that list as well.

 

[Ace of Hades]

Few things:

1) Sutter is a very good 3rd line C and proved it last year. Yes he is overpaid, but he is very good at what he does when deployed correctly (as he was last year)

2) every single GM in the leagues disagrees with you on Archibald just as they did three years ago with the JD Burke crew with regards to Eddie Lack.

1)Yes, and that's not being a "foundational player". Foundational player is someone like Kopitar. Sutter will be our 2nd line C and will fail miserably at it since that position is way over his head.

2)Appealing to authority I see. That's not what is being discussed. Refer to my previous post.

Why can't someone assess deals on here independently without being labelled one thing or another? To the great detriment of this forum, every thread immediately devolves into the same tired attack on management and those perceived as defending it. People need to learn to chill a little bit.

That's not the crux of what the argument of my post was about. Your post is irrelevant to what is being discussed. I labeled as such as a small side note given the amount of blind defending for Benning reaching peak level. Next time focus on being on topic.

 

[Ace of Hades]

How is this his 'ceiling' when he played literally miles above that and was very effective last year?

Is Jonathan Marchessault's ceiling a 2nd line winger?

Sadly people assume he will always be an Ahler due to his status of being undrafted, and the years he spent in the Ahl.

It's as if the notion of a player being able to improve or looking like someone who's above AHL level is lost on these same people.

I won't be surprised if the argument devolved into, he had a "career year and that this is a flash in the pan/outlier season"

 

[Pip]

Sadly people assume he will always be an Ahler due to his status of being undrafted, and the years he spent in the Ahl.

It's as if the notion of a player being able to improve or looking like someone who's above AHL level is lost on these same people.

I won't be surprised if the argument devolved into, he had a "career year and that this is a flash in the pan/outlier season"

Pedigree matters more than performance for many fans, and unfortunately our GM as well.

 

[UticaHockey]

Has the Archibald signing been confirmed? There was a Rick Dhaliwal Tweet saying it is a two way contract. Dhaliwal is usually spot on but still nothing officially released and nothing on CapFriendly.

 

[Ace of Hades]

Pedigree matters more than performance for many fans, and unfortunately our GM as well.

Sad truth is sad.

Which is pretty amusing given how this place is generally a "what have you done for me lately" mindset, and yet this somehow doesn't seem to apply to Archibald.

 

[Zombotron]

Has the Archibald signing been confirmed? There was a Rick Dhaliwal Tweet saying it is a two way contract. Dhaliwal is usually spot on but still nothing officially released and nothing on CapFriendly.

 

[Warh1ppy]

The NHL market is not grounded in who is actually the better player as it's determined by idiots like Jim Benning who have no ability to actually evaluate talent and evaluate what's happening in a hockey game. Do we really have to go through the whole Vegas success story again?

Roussel is getting paid because dinosaurs still value face-punching and for what he did 3-4 years ago. Archibald isn't getting paid because bad GMs can't pro scout to save their lives and he's been typecast as a minor-leaguer.

Darren Archibald was a better NHL player than Antoine Roussel last year, and it wasn't even close. If you're arguing this, you are wrong.

One is a regular NHL player with multiple offers this off season that benning slightly overpaid for. One is an AHL player that got a few call ups and couldn't find work in the league.

So.....guess one of us is wrong because "opinion"

 

[Hit the post]

Slightly overpaid for? 4th line wingers with a limited NTC and term?