Canucks News, Rumours, & Fantasy GM | Hold up, let ‘im cook.

[Flik]

Tocchet sounding very pissed with Kuzmenko, "I'm sick of answering questions about that guy, he's gotta forecheck, let's start with that." Only 3 shifts for him in the 3rd

Oooooof. That can't bode well for Kuz's future here.

 

[Wisp]

4 times you just used past tense or projections vs the context of this season to date in this statement alone

yes, no doubt, I'm flustered and frustrated and am going all over the place.

 

[MS]

I'll make arguments.

He's been fantastic positionally, with his stick, physically imposing, great on the faceoff dot, winning his matchups against top, top players in the NHL.

The story on Miller isn't told in his underlying numbers. He's not making the mistakes he used to make. He's had an incredible season offensively and defensively.

And it’s so obvious that that’s the case.

And the thing that isn’t being captured by raw numbers is that we’ve led the most minutes in the NHL this year and JT Miller has been out there constantly protecting those leads with Brock Boeser and PDG as linemates, and these are simply nowhere near the caliber of defensive player someone in those minutes should be playing with, and he’s very obviously a helicopter line dragging those guys along much of the time.

4 times you just used past tense or projections vs the context of this season to date in this statement alone

Yeah. Nobody is arguing that JT Miller was a Selke-level player before or even that this will continue. We’re talking about these 25 games in a vacuum.

And also a lot of these ‘I guess JT Miller is serviceable defensively’ posts remind me of the ‘Chris Tanev is an ok 5D with no shot’ when he was killing shutdown pairing minutes for like a year already.

 

[Wisp]

Yeah. Nobody is arguing that JT Miller was a Selke-level player before or even that this will continue. We’re talking about these 25 games in a vacuum.

And also a lot of these ‘I guess JT Miller is serviceable defensively’ posts remind me of the ‘Chris Tanev is an ok 5D with no shot’ when he was killing shutdown pairing minutes for like a year already.

I should probably not be engaging anymore because of how furious i am, but to risk it to clarify..

the 'JT Miller is Selke for 25 games' is not what i'm arguing against... the basis of this whole thread of discussion started when I post about how it would be great to make a trade that moved Miller to the wing, imagining a transaction to get someone like Ek or Couturier to really actually convincing slay those match up minutes and then moving Miller on the wing so he can focus on being the talented offensive, his bread and butter.

Tanev is a great f***ing comparison, because he's inverse/reverse player JT Miller is my mind. Great defensive player, good enough 2 way profile that you could use him for offensive situations... but you'd really prefer to have another tool back there for the offensive side of things.

 

[MS]

I should probably not be engaging anymore because of how furious i am, but to risk it to clarify..

the 'JT Miller is Selke for 25 games' is not what i'm arguing against. the basis of this whole thread of discussion started when I post about how it would be great to make a trade that moved Miller to the wing, imagining a transaction to get someone like Ek or Couturier to really actually convincing slay those match up minutes and then moving Miller on the wing so he can focus on being the talented offensive bread and butter.

Tanev is a great f***ing comparison, because he's inverse/reverse player JT Miller is my mind. Great defensive player, good enough 2 way profile that you could use him for offensive situations... but you'd really prefer to have another tool back there for the offensive side of things.

Moving JT Miller to wing right now is literally the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard.

He’s been one of the top 5 Cs in the NHL this season.

Like, you’re saying that I’m disengaged from reality? Saying that you want to move a player playing this well because of some bad graph you saw is literally the definition of being disengaged from reality.

So is thinking we’re trading for JEE. And even if we did? Miller stays at C.

 

[Wisp]

Moving JT Miller to wing right now is literally the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard.

He’s been one of the top 5 Cs in the NHL this season.

Like, you’re saying that I’m disengaged from reality? Saying that you want to move a player playing this well because of some bad graph you saw is literally the definition of being disengaged from reality.

So is thinking we’re trading for JEE. And even if we did? Miller stays at C.

Miller has played wing for the Canucks in a the past and done well, it's not such an outlandish notion. Anyways, the graphs were my way to try and provide context with what i was seeing with Miller's 5v5 play and I'm by far not the only ones with concerns. You clearly are deadset refusing to engage with that and have been using bluster and condescension to avoid entertaining that data from the the beginning. And I've let myself get flustered and frustrated by that and that's on me.

 

[Delocatedfan]

Anyone else a bit worried Kuzy might get traded for a top 6 winger that is struggling or on the outs elsewhere? Tocc seemed pretty amnoyed when asked about him at the post game press conference.

 

[Wisp]

Anyone else a bit worried Kuzy might get traded for a top 6 winger that is struggling or on the outs elsewhere? Tocc seemed pretty amnoyed when asked about him at the post game press conference.

I don't think he's a Tocchet style player, so my expectation is that Kuzmenko probably gets traded at some point... But i would hope they can do much better for Kuzmenko than 'winger who is also struggling' hockey trade. He was never going to repeat a 27.3% shooting percentage but he's still a pretty useful PP/offensive piece.

That said there's not really a pressing need to make a move on him right now, unless they need the space for something bigger. Keep working with him and utilize him on the power play, should keep his counting stats healthy enough to still have value.

 

[StickShift]

Anyone else a bit worried Kuzy might get traded for a top 6 winger that is struggling or on the outs elsewhere? Tocc seemed pretty amnoyed when asked about him at the post game press conference.

I'm not really worried about Kuzmenko being traded if he isn't helping the team.

He's been incredibly underwhelming this year and dragging down his line.

 

[andora]

I'll make arguments.

He's been fantastic positionally, with his stick, physically imposing, great on the faceoff dot, winning his matchups against top, top players in the NHL.

The story on Miller isn't told in his underlying numbers. He's not making the mistakes he used to make. He's had an incredible season offensively and defensively.

Not making the mistakes he used to.. that is the key.. he has changed

Those graphs in a nutshell are why the stats and numbers are so annoying, no explanation no justification just here's some colored lines.

 

[SeawaterOnIce]

I'm not really worried about Kuzmenko being traded if he isn't helping the team.

He's been incredibly underwhelming this year and dragging down his line.

Depth at wings is really questionable right now.

You pretty much already have Karlsson, Joshua, and Lafferty taking turns in the top 9 right now. This is not a good situation to be in long-term and very reminiscent of the lack of scoring depth we had between 2007-2008.

While Kuzmenko is to blame for his own struggles, coaching isn't helping the situation at all and suppressing the overall offense of the team. Contrary to what Tochett seems to think, we don't have the horses to play a grinding style of hockey. Players like PDG, Joshua and Lafferty may have their moments but it's unreasonable to expect the other guys to adjust to this style.

 

[bossram]

Paterson tweeted it but a big problem with the PK is only one centre, Suter, was winning PK faceoffs over 50%. Everyone else was in the low-40s and 30s.

Which is weird and maybe not a solvable problem because Suter hasn’t been a good at face-offs during his career and Miller’s average-to-good.

Yeah, I know Miller is there because of his faceoff ability. But it's not really leading to success and having him as their 1PK option is producing a bad PK overall.

 

[bossram]

i don't make sense? listen to yourself.

they are leading the leagues in goals scored more than 1/4 into the season. delete the san jose game and they are still leading the league in goals scored.

but they "don't create enough"?

next you'll be quoting pdo.

They don't.

They had juiced numbers early in the season from a lucky shooting % and weak goalies. Their 5v5 chance creation is mediocre. And factually, no, if you remove the SJ game they are not, in fact, leading the league at 5v5 scoring.

Even last night, despite trailing most of the game, they were still outchanced by NJ. They tied it because of a straight pizza delivery from Siegenthaler and Vanecek handling rebounds like he's juggling 15 bouncy balls.

Where are you getting these numbers, they are top half of the league in xGF with the publically available data and are top 10 with the private data.

Evolving Hockey has them 19th in xGF/60 at 5v5, score and venue adjusted.

 

[MS]

Miller has played wing for the Canucks in a the past and done well, it's not such an outlandish notion. Anyways, the graphs were my way to try and provide context with what i was seeing with Miller's 5v5 play and I'm by far not the only ones with concerns. You clearly are deadset refusing to engage with that and have been using bluster and condescension to avoid entertaining that data from the the beginning. And I've let myself get flustered and frustrated by that and that's on me.

The graphs DO NOT PROVIDE CONTEXT. They're they literal exact opposite of that. I'll engage with actual arguments using actual evidence and context. I won't engage with someone whose only position is to provide a useless graph.

Miller played C for about 20 games last season when he was broken and otherwise has been a C since he arrived in Vancouver.

The guy is 2nd in the NHL in scoring while playing basically Patrice Bergeron minutes with Phil Di Giuseppe on his wing. He's been one of the very, very best Cs in the NHL this year and you're talking about moving him to wing. It's insanity. It's like saying we should take Quinn Hughes off the PP or something.

 

[TruGr1t]

This pretty much explains the downtrend.

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

It's been pretty evident that Kuz has never been a Tocchet type player.

They've tried working with him but it's not working.

I don't think they go into next season with Kuz on the team.

 

[UrbanImpact]

This is not a Cup contending team. I hope Allvin doesnt do something stupod and go All -In this year. Something stupid like attaching a valuable asset to get rid of Tyler Myers.

Our biggest needs that we need to fix before we can be cup contenders

- Get a Legit top 2-4Dman
- Get another top 6 player with size and speed


We need to do everything we can to be open up cap space for this off-season to get that legit Dman either via trade or free agency.

Thats why i suggested we trade Garland for Barrie's expiring contract. We then sign Bear and bury Barrie in the press-box or AHL. Bains, Podz, can fill Garland's 3rd line spot. Barrie's contract ends in the summer which will us up for more cap room as opposed to having Garland for 2.5 more years.


The last thing we should do is trying to get rid of Myers and Garland now by adding assets.

Myers we should just swallow for the rest of the year and let him walk in the off-season or if by some miracle someone offers us a 5th round pick for him at the TDL.

 

[SeawaterOnIce]

This is not a Cup contending team. I hope Allvin doesnt do something stupod and go All -In this year. Something stupid like attaching a valuable asset to get rid of Tyler Myers.

Our biggest needs that we need to fix before we can be cup contenders

- Get a Legit top 2-4Dman
- Get another top 6 player with size and speed


We need to do everything we can to be open up cap space for this off-season to get that legit Dman either via trade or free agency.

Thats why i suggested we trade Garland for Barrie's expiring contract. We then sign Bear and bury Barrie in the press-box or AHL. Bains, Podz, can fill Garland's 3rd line spot. Barrie's contract ends in the summer which will us up for more cap room as opposed to having Garland for 2.5 more years.


The last thing we should do is trying to get rid of Myers and Garland now by adding assets.

Myers we should just swallow for the rest of the year and let him walk in the off-season or if by some miracle someone offers us a 5th round pick for him at the TDL.

Management haven't shown any willingness to mortgage the future this season. They have done a bunch of minor transactions in an attempt to slightly improve the team going forward.

I have a feeling this year was solely about making the playoffs to keep moral up to re-sign Pettersson. This team would absolutely get crushed by Colorado, Vegas or LA in a playoff series. We were never going to contend for a cup.

 

[m9]

It's fair to be critical of Miller's play at times over the last dozen games or whatever. But he's being tasked with doing a ton defensively due to the Suter injury & EP's brutal 5on5 play so you probably want to keep it in context.

But yeah, he's been great at center since Tocchet took over. I'm amazed people think moving him to wing is a viable answer given his overall play and the current center situation.

 

[TruGr1t]

It's fair to be critical of Miller's play at times over the last dozen games or whatever. But he's being tasked with doing a ton defensively due to the Suter injury & EP's brutal 5on5 play so you probably want to keep it in context.

But yeah, he's been great at center since Tocchet took over. I'm amazed people think moving him to wing is a viable answer given his overall play and the current center situation.

I mean, the entire forward roster construction was largely predicated on switching Milller to centre permanently, so not sure why it's even being discussed. The centre depth in the system is abysmal.

 

[Donuts]

Definitely need more trades/upgrades from top to bottom in the lineup.

laffertys making the best of his opportunities but not a legit top 6 and better in bottom 6 role. Just saying, need to massively upgrade EP's wingers.
And management hoping EP will sign while him knowing his wingers are Mikheyev, lafferty, joshua, etc.
EP is struggling but he is still top 8 in nhl scoring. Need legit top 6 wingers to play with him especially when playoffs starts

Allvin do your thing.

 

[andora]

Definitely need more trades/upgrades from top to bottom in the lineup.

laffertys making the best of his opportunities but not a legit top 6 and better in bottom 6 role. Just saying, need to massively upgrade EP's wingers.
And management hoping EP will sign while him knowing his wingers are Mikheyev, lafferty, joshua, etc.
EP is struggling but he is still top 8 in nhl scoring. Need legit top 6 wingers to play with him especially when playoffs starts

Allvin do your thing.

I think you just need solid all around wingers.. guys that can create space, retrieve pucks in both ends and forecheck efficiently.. whether they go .5 ppg or 1 ppg

Pettersson is developing his game and style to be the all around center.. where he may get 80 90 points but everything else is air tight

 

[Vector]

-no cap space for Barrie
-his agent will call the Canucks to see if there's a fit
-"Canucks have liked Barrie for years and years and years"
-Ethan Bear's contract will not be a problem to get on the books
-Canucks have been after Barrie for years, going back to the previous regime

 

[andora]

-no cap space for Barrie
-his agent will call the Canucks to see if there's a fit
-"Canucks have liked Barrie for years and years and years"
-Ethan Bear's contract will not be a problem to get on the books
-Canucks have been after Barrie for years, going back to the previous regime

Oh wtf

Ffs i cant handle barrie myers and juuslen

 

[Vector]

Oh wtf

Ffs i cant handle barrie myers and juuslen

If they have Barrie, there wouldn't be Juulsen. I don't see a fit for Barrie from almost any perspective. He's not big, can't play defence, and Ethan Bear fits the cap structure while being better defensively.