Canucks News, Rumours, & Fantasy GM | Hold up, let ‘im cook.

[Britton]

This doesn't even make sense.

They're below-average in 5v5 xG generation after being bottom-third last season. They don't create enough.

Where are you getting these numbers, they are top half of the league in xGF with the publically available data and are top 10 with the private data.

 

[Burke's Evil Spirit]

Paterson tweeted it but a big problem with the PK is only one centre, Suter, was winning PK faceoffs over 50%. Everyone else was in the low-40s and 30s.

Which is weird and maybe not a solvable problem because Suter hasn’t been a good at face-offs during his career and Miller’s average-to-good.

Faceoffs aren't remotely the problem with the PK.

To put it in perspective, the Canucks average 5.4 shorthanded faceoffs a game. The difference between a 50% and 40% faceoff win percentage amounts to losing an extra draw shorthanded every other game.

 

[TruGr1t]

Of course it might not last. But if he performs 82 games at this level, absolutely it's Selke-level stuff.

Pettersson has been absolutely horrible defensively this year, by contrast. I agree that he's 'naturally' the better player but one guy is willing himself to excellence and the other is injured or floating.

I don't think they really handicap the Selke by saying he's playing with generally average, to below-average, defensive linemates. Even if he is to a degree making chicken salad out of chicken shit. You can certainly make the case he's the best Selke candidate on the Canucks, but nobody on the team should really be in the conversation alongside the league's elite defensive players given the stats. Even if your eyes are telling you something else.

And if you want to bring up linemates you also have to bring up the strength of schedule and the Canucks have not had a challenging one to date, though they do have one of, if not the most, difficult remaining schedules in the Pacific .... so we're certainly going to see if it lasts.

 

[Vector]

Faceoffs aren't remotely the problem with the PK.

To put it in perspective, the Canucks average 5.4 shorthanded faceoffs a game. The difference between a 50% and 40% faceoff win percentage amounts to losing an extra draw shorthanded every other game.

Looking deeper, I’d say faceoffs are not the problem but a symptom. Miller has taken like 90% of the faceoffs. That’s a pretty insane over reliance on one guy.

 

[Petey But Really Jim]

Looking deeper, I’d say faceoffs are not the problem but a symptom. Miller has taken like 90% of the faceoffs. That’s a pretty insane over reliance on one guy.

n den the haffa da ones he loses he gotta stay out dere

lose, lose

not to be mistaken for the more famous lose-lose

 

[Wisp]

It wasn't at you specifically - I've seen this take a bunch of places recently including a few times here.

And it's just a really, really, really bad take. It isn't what's happening and taking those sorts of numbers out of context doesn't tell you anything. It's no different than how those game score sheets said that Noah Juulsen was better than Quinn Hughes in the Calgary game.

Miller was terrific vs. Vegas.

Your boy Selke JT Miller is at it again.

 

[MS]

Your boy Selke JT Miller is at it again.

Anyone who posts those graphs as some sort of gotcha for a player playing high-leverage minutes doesn't understand hockey. Sorry.

JT Miller was the best Canuck on the ice by a mile tonight.

 

[Wisp]

1 game is the end all be all?

This is a 10+ game trend.

 

[Wisp]

Anyone who posts those graphs as some sort of gotcha for a player playing high-leverage minutes doesn't understand hockey. Sorry.

JT Miller was the best Canuck on the ice by a mile tonight.

It's not a gotcha - You called JT Miller Selke Calibre and that's a redonkulous notion. When challenged with data you go 'hurr durr graphs wrong you don't know hockey.' you're effing arrogant and you're doubling down on your ridiculous take so you throw around insults.

 

[MS]

It's not a gotcha - You called JT Miller Selke Calibre and that's a redonkulous notion. When challenged with data you go 'hurr durr graphs wrong you don't know hockey.' you're effing arrogant and you're doubling down on your ridiculous take so you throw around insults.

You’re posting absolutely meaningless out-of-context numbers as evidence of a totally incorrect argument. I don’t know what else fo say really.

If JT Miller plays 82 games at the level he played the first 25, he will be in the Selke discussion. He’s never done it before so it might not last, but he’s been absolutely f***ing phenomenal as a two-way C.

 

[Wisp]

You’re posting absolutely meaningless out-of-context numbers as evidence of a totally incorrect argument. I don’t know what else fo say really.

If JT Miller plays 82 games at the level he played the first 25, he will be in the Selke discussion. He’s never done it before so it might not last, but he’s been absolutely f***ing phenomenal as a two-way C.

I guess I'll have to take a page from your book, I'll just question if you watch the games at all and say that if you can't understand the context of that graph than you're just a big dumdum who doesn't understand hockey. I call it the 'MS Defense.'

 

[MS]

I guess I'll have to take a page from your book, and say that if you can't understand the context of that graph than you're just a big dumdum who doesn't understand hockey. I call it the 'MS Defense.'

There is no context to that graph. That’s the whole point.

Those things consistently make soft-minute guys look like world-beaters and high-leverage guys look like they aren’t contributing.

Do you think, watching that game, that Nikita Zadorov and Quinn Hughes had the same level of both offensive and defensive impact? Becsuse that’s what that graph is telling you.

 

[Wisp]

There is no context to that graph. That’s the whole point.

Those things consistently make soft-minute guys look like world-beaters and high-leverage guys look like they aren’t contributing.

Do you think, watching that game, that Nikita Zadorov and Quinn Hughes had the same level of both offensive and defensive impact? Becsuse that’s what that graph is telling you.

i'm sorry MS, you clearly don't watch the sport and know nothing about the game of hockey.

selke JT Miller. effing jesus. if you don't like the graph use your effing eyeballs.

 

[MS]

i'm sorry MS, you clearly don't watch the sport and know nothing about the game of hockey.

selke JT Miller. effing jesus. if you don't like the graph use your effing eyeballs.

I’ve watched the first 25 games and he’s been spectacular. And you’d damn well better believe he’d be top-5 in Selke voting if they handed it out today.

But sure, stick to your nonsense graph made by the same sort of people who thought that Patrick Wiercioch was a star because they couldn’t apply context to numbers.

 

[Szechwan]

Tocchet sounding very pissed with Kuzmenko, "I'm sick of answering questions about that guy, he's gotta forecheck, let's start with that." Only 3 shifts for him in the 3rd

 

[Petey O]

Anyone who can't see that JT has been playing Selke level hockey this season is probably not watching all the games. The only explainable thing is bias due to not liking how he conducted himself last season.

 

[Wisp]

Anyone who can't see that JT has been playing Selke level hockey this season is probably not watching all the games. The only explainable thing is bias due to not liking how he conducted himself last season.

Get real, 'selke' JT Miller is a homer take. It's not going to age well, it's already aging poorly. We can celebrate JT's offensive abilities without pretending he's something he ain't. We've watched him play hundreds of games for this team, there's no reason to be revisionist for such a small sample.

Already people are digging trenches for 'well he was for these 25 so games or so" to retreat to. It's a house built on quicksand.

 

[Petey O]

Get real, 'selke' JT Miller is a homer take. It's not going to age well, it's already aging poorly. We can celebrate JT's offensive abilities without pretending he's something he ain't. We've watched him play hundreds of games for this team, there's no reason to be revisionist for such a small sample.

Already people are digging trenches for 'well he was for these 25 so games or so" to retreat to. It's a house built on quicksand.

Newsflash. The Selke award is a seasonal award. Not a career award. The argument by MS and others is that he has been playing Selke calibre hockey for the season. And they're not wrong. Does that change? Maybe. But counter signalling these arguments using silly graphs out of context isn't getting you anywhere.

 

[Wisp]

Newsflash. The Selke award is a seasonal award. Not a career award. The argument by MS and others is that he has been playing Selke calibre hockey for the season. And they're not wrong. Does that change? Maybe. But counter signalling these arguments using silly graphs out of context isn't getting you anywhere.

What arguments? "the graphs are silly and i don't believe in the data and btw I declare you don't know anything about hockey" is not an argument. It's a refusal to engage with reality. If I'm pissed, it's because there's no effing discussion. It's like arguing with a creationist about dinosaurs.

 

[Petey O]

What arguments? "the graphs are silly and i don't believe in the data and btw I declare you don't know anything about hockey" is not an argument. It's a refusal to engage with reality. If I'm pissed, it's because there's no effing discussion, just people sticking their fingers they're right.

Short of compiling 25 games of JT Miller defensive footage for your benefit, I don't know how else you'll be convinced. You're not seeing what so many other Canucks fans are seeing. Agree to disagree?

Perhaps make points as to why you disagree with Miller being elite defensively this season rather than just post a graph as a "lol told you so"? Post some clips over the last 10 games and make your argument against the majority.

 

[Wisp]

Short of compiling 25 games of JT Miller defensive footage for your benefit, I don't know how else you'll be convinced. You're not seeing what so many other Canucks fans are seeing. Agree to disagree?

Perhaps make points as to why you disagree with Miller being elite defensively this season rather than just post a graph as a "lol told you so"? Post some clips over the last 10 games and make your argument against the majority.

I'm not even going to entertain the notion that I'm the only person making this argument. I have linked to other people making the argument, many in the media. What I got for my trouble of supporting my statements is 'graphs and numbers aren't real and people who engage it don't know anything in hockey.' Do you understand why I am frustrated here? Like for real: Eff this, I tried playing, and I got hostile ignorance for my trouble.

 

[MS]

What arguments? "the graphs are silly and i don't believe in the data and btw I declare you don't know anything about hockey" is not an argument. It's a refusal to engage with reality. If I'm pissed, it's because there's no effing discussion. It's like arguing with a creationist about dinosaurs.

Those graphs aren’t ‘reality’.

They’re out-of-context garbage.

Miller looks ‘bad’ tonight mostly because he was on the ice for two huge individual errors by Myers and Hronek that led to goals and had absolutely nothing to do with JT Miller. Plus he’s tasked with playing high-leverage minutes with Boeser and Kuzmenko (who was awful tonight) as linemates.

His two-way play tonight was excellent. Anyone watching the game could see this but let’s ignore that for some dumbass graph.

f*** me, sports fandom in 2023 is stupid.

 

[Petey O]

I'm not even going to entertain the notion that I'm the only person making this argument. I have linked to other people making the argument, many in the media. What I got for my trouble of supporting my statements is 'graphs and numbers aren't real and people who engage it don't know anything in hockey.' Do you understand why I am frustrated here? Like for real: Eff this.

I'll make arguments.

He's been fantastic positionally, with his stick, physically imposing, great on the faceoff dot, winning his matchups against top, top players in the NHL.

The story on Miller isn't told in his underlying numbers. He's not making the mistakes he used to make. He's had an incredible season offensively and defensively.

 

[Wisp]

f*** me, sports fandom in 2023 is stupid.

that's on you.

 

[sting101]

Get real, 'selke' JT Miller is a homer take. It's not going to age well, it's already aging poorly. We can celebrate JT's offensive abilities without pretending he's something he ain't. We've watched him play hundreds of games for this team, there's no reason to be revisionist for such a small sample.

Already people are digging trenches for 'well he was for these 25 so games or so" to retreat to. It's a house built on quicksand.

4 times you just used past tense or projections vs the context of this season to date in this statement alone