Canucks News, Rumours, & Fantasy GM | Hold up, let ‘im cook.

[andora]

I've been saying this for a couple weaks, the Canucks' defensive play is actually okay.

Their biggest issue is actually 5v5 scoring. They need another top-line calibre forward.

Yep the system is slowly taking effect

While a mini offense bump can be expected over time when they get locked in they do need that random .65 to .85 point per game guy

 

[krutovsdonut]

For much of the month of the November, Canucks top-lines have been allowing a lot more shot-attempts than they themself have been generating.

Here's a good thread on it.

Edit: Also, to point out, the Vegas game showed just how outmatched Miller is in that match up roll. He was legitimately 'eaten alive' here. He's a really talented offensive piece but as a shutdown center he is miscast.

in the vegas game miller at es was on for more shot attempts for (15) than against (13) so you are contradicting yourself citing shot attempts and then using that game as an example. if you dig deeper into that game miller on a stats basis was one of the better canucks, with a relative corsi of 9%.

more importantly, a small sample size and a focus on a single metric and then focussing on a single game and a single player is not a good basis for evaluating a major need like "we need a centre".

during november suter has been out, pettersson has been playing hurt, and the whole team has arguably been on a down cycle on the proverbial biorhythms. you could also make a better argument we need to upgrade pdg on miller's line than upgrade at centre, but even there i'd do it internally for now.

 

[krutovsdonut]

I've been saying this for a couple weaks, the Canucks' defensive play is actually okay. Systemically, it's much improved.

Their biggest issue is actually 5v5 scoring. They need another top-line calibre forward.

i just don't see these needs right now. apart from changing out myers and getting suter and soucy back i don't really see any personnel needs. i see a decent lineup and mostly credible depth. i am much more interested in seeing what the guys we have can do over the course of a season and hopefully beyond.

if you are worried about scoring, maybe agitate for the team to shoot better than 1.4% with garland on the ice.

 

[andora]

i just don't see these needs right now. apart from changing out myers and getting suter and soucy back i don't really see any personnel needs. i see a decent lineup and mostly credible depth. i am much more interested in seeing what the guys we have can do over the course of a season and hopefully beyond.

if you are worried about scoring, maybe agitate for the team to shoot better than 1.4% with garland on the ice.

i'll take garland's velocity to be 1.4% harder

 

[MS]

You're a smart guy, I'm sure you can make your point without without resorting to passive aggressive ad-hominem at me.

Anyways, we all saw how overmatched Miller was versus vegas. Exhibit A. 'Selke caliber' that was definity not. Get over it.

It wasn't at you specifically - I've seen this take a bunch of places recently including a few times here.

And it's just a really, really, really bad take. It isn't what's happening and taking those sorts of numbers out of context doesn't tell you anything. It's no different than how those game score sheets said that Noah Juulsen was better than Quinn Hughes in the Calgary game.

Miller was terrific vs. Vegas.

 

[Nucker101]

This is actually surprising. We've come a long way.

Solid. Interesting to see NJ that effective because moneypuck says they have one of the lowest expected sv%'s in the league. So does that mean they're vulnerable against the cycle?

 

[sandwichbird2023]

They need a center. Miller is getting eaten alive in his current matchup roll. 'Pretty Solid' gets you into the playoffs but doesn't win you cups. If they have any contending ambitions, they need a center that can take those matchups and come out on top.

If you can make a move that pushes Miller to the wing, you're mitigating your winger issue and shoring up a major team weakness. Having it so Miller can slide back to center if your primary centers are injured is also good depth.

Not that Kuzmenko and Mikheyev aren't good players, but they make nearly a combined 10 million and the Canucks have possible cheaper options in the pipe emerging with Lekkermaki on his way. Re-allocating that money to a premium position like center would go a long way. Of the two I'd be loath to lose Mikheyev because of his even strength production while Kuzmenko is feasting on the powerplay.

I'm not saying whether JTM is or isn't a Selke calibre player, but at least according to this article here, he is generating Selke attention for his play this year. I think he has vastly improved his defensive play and effort from the last few seasons, I'll give him that.

Also nice to see so many Canucks getting recognition from the media.

 

[bossram]

i just don't see these needs right now. apart from changing out myers and getting suter and soucy back i don't really see any personnel needs. i see a decent lineup and mostly credible depth. i am much more interested in seeing what the guys we have can do over the course of a season and hopefully beyond.

if you are worried about scoring, maybe agitate for the team to shoot better than 1.4% with garland on the ice.

This doesn't even make sense.

They're below-average in 5v5 xG generation after being bottom-third last season. They don't create enough.

 

[MS]

Solid. Interesting to see NJ that effective because moneypuck says they have one of the lowest expected sv%'s in the league. So does that mean they're vulnerable against the cycle?

Interesting numbers, although I'm never sure how accurate stuff like this actually is. LA is lapping the field and the difference between 1st and 4th is bigger than the difference between 4th and 26th.

 

[TruGr1t]

He's playing Patrice Bergeron minutes with a career AHLer and a guy considered a defensive liability on his wings. He's also played an absolute shit ton of high-leverage minutes protecting leads (I think we've still led more minutes than any team in the NHL) and there is massive score-effects stuff happening to him.

The 'Miller is getting caved in' stuff from the spreadsheet nerds is one of the more comical 'I don't watch games and don't understand the sport' things I've ever seen. He should be a Selke finalist based on his play so far this year.

Miller is serviceable defensively, especially since he’s a converted winger. But he will get limited, if any, Selke consideration, nor should he. There are substantially better defensive forwards in the league.

 

[Petey O]

Lest We Forget:

I cri evrytiem

 

[MS]

Miller is serviceable defensively, especially since he’s a converted winger. But he will get limited, if any, Selke consideration, nor should he. There are substantially better defensive forwards in the league.

This take was maybe correct in 2021. He's been an absolute monster this year and if you're still classifying his defensive play as 'serviceable' you either aren't watching the games or don't know what you're watching.

And, again, it can't be understated that he's playing with a career AHLer and a guy considered one of the slowest/worst defensive wingers in the NHL.

 

[andora]

Solid. Interesting to see NJ that effective because moneypuck says they have one of the lowest expected sv%'s in the league. So does that mean they're vulnerable against the cycle?

In front of their net

 

[Peen]

This take was maybe correct in 2021. He's been an absolute monster this year and if you're still classifying his defensive play as 'serviceable' you either aren't watching the games or don't know what you're watching.

And, again, it can't be understated that he's playing with a career AHLer and a guy considered one of the slowest/worst defensive wingers in the NHL.

That take was definitely accurate in 2022 as well.

 

[MS]

That take was definitely accurate in 2022 as well.

I mean, first 15 games of last year he was 'unplayable' defensively.

The turnaround under Tocchet has been mindblowing. If you would have told someone in November 2022 that JT Miller a year later would be one of the top high-leverage matchup Cs in the NHL and was doing it on a line with Brock Boeser and Phil Di Giuseppe, people would have thought you had lost your mind.

 

[TruGr1t]

This take was maybe correct in 2021. He's been an absolute monster this year and if you're still classifying his defensive play as 'serviceable' you either aren't watching the games or don't know what you're watching.

And, again, it can't be understated that he's playing with a career AHLer and a guy considered one of the slowest/worst defensive wingers in the NHL.

He’s way improved from basically being a defensive liability, but he’s not even close to Selke level in my (and the Vegas lines’) opinion.

It’s been an outlier to-date, but I actually expect it to revert to the mean and Pettersson to get more Selke votes when the year ends. He’s been a materially better defensive player outside of the last three months. Though obviously if he’s legit injured probably not.

 

[canuckking1]

Anyways, we all saw how overmatched Miller was versus vegas. Exhibit A. 'Selke caliber' that was definity not. Get over it.

1 game is the end all be all?

 

[canuckking1]

Miller is serviceable defensively, especially since he’s a converted winger. But he will get limited, if any, Selke consideration, nor should he. There are substantially better defensive forwards in the league.

I think this is the most accurate take. Miller is respectable defensively but isn’t Selke level. When Pettersson is at his best, he’s probably the closest to Selke level, and even then I’d argue he’s still short. In the current setting with the way Petey is playing though, Miller is best suited for that role

 

[MS]

He’s way improved from basically being a defensive liability, but he’s not even close to Selke level in my (and the Vegas lines’) opinion.

It’s been an outlier to-date, but I actually expect it to revert to the mean and Pettersson to get more Selke votes when the year ends. He’s been a materially better defensive player outside of the last three months. Though obviously if he’s legit injured probably not.

Of course it might not last. But if he performs 82 games at this level, absolutely it's Selke-level stuff.

Pettersson has been absolutely horrible defensively this year, by contrast. I agree that he's 'naturally' the better player but one guy is willing himself to excellence and the other is injured or floating.

I think this is the most accurate take. Miller is respectable defensively but isn’t Selke level. When Pettersson is at his best, he’s probably the closest to Selke level, and even then I’d argue he’s still short. In the current setting with the way Petey is playing though, Miller is best suited for that role

'Respectable' means you're average or you can get by. It might be you you'd describe Horvat although even in his case I'd consider it harsh.

Carrying 20+ minutes/night of high-leverage icetime with non-high leverage wingers and killing those minutes? Is not 'serviceable' or 'respectable'. He's been much, much better than that and I'm absolutely amazed at some of these takes.

 

[SelltheTeamFrancesco]

I've been saying this for a couple weaks, the Canucks' defensive play is actually okay. Systemically, it's much improved.

Their biggest issue is actually 5v5 scoring. They need another top-line calibre forward.

I think it's the penalty kill. Whether you look at the analytics or the the eye test it has not looked or been good lately. They need to find ways to take minutes away from Miller and Myers on the pk because they are both terrible penalty killers. They fact that they are the two of the highest leverage penalty killers on the Canucks is tragic and needs to change.

 

[bossram]

I think it's the penalty kill. Whether you look at the analytics or the the eye test it has not looked or been good lately. They need to find ways to take minutes away from Miller and Myers on the pk because they are both terrible penalty killers. They fact that they are the two of the highest leverage penalty killers on the Canucks is tragic and needs to change.

The PK is bad, but yeah they have an easy fix: Stop playing Miller there. You have Blueger, Suter, Joshua, Pettersson, Mikheyev, Lafferty as options when healthy before JT.

 

[Lindgren]

This take was maybe correct in 2021. He's been an absolute monster this year and if you're still classifying his defensive play as 'serviceable' you either aren't watching the games or don't know what you're watching.

And, again, it can't be understated that he's playing with a career AHLer and a guy considered one of the slowest/worst defensive wingers in the NHL.

"can't be overstated" (Sorry—it's a peeve of mine.)

 

[credulous]

i really don't get what people see in pettersson or miller defensively. both look largely ineffective to me when they're forced to play defense. are people just evaluating their ability to get close and harass puck carriers or something? or looking at their xg%? neither of them do a good job of closing out lanes or forcing players to less dangerous areas and neither of them are effective at winning back possession. they both rank in the bottom 50% in ga/60 also but i'm not sure this is a very good stat. they're good possession players so their defensive results aren't really hurting their performance too badly but it's weird to me anyone ever describes them as good defensively

conversely i think jack eichel is probably the best defensive center in the whole league over the last 12 months but people seem to think he's bad defensively? i'm not really sure whether i'm out to lunch or whether there's just a bunch of home team bias going on

 

[Vector]

The PK is bad, but yeah they have an easy fix: Stop playing Miller there. You have Blueger, Suter, Joshua, Pettersson, Mikheyev, Lafferty as options when healthy before JT.

Paterson tweeted it but a big problem with the PK is only one centre, Suter, was winning PK faceoffs over 50%. Everyone else was in the low-40s and 30s.

Which is weird and maybe not a solvable problem because Suter hasn’t been a good at face-offs during his career and Miller’s average-to-good.

 

[krutovsdonut]

This doesn't even make sense.

They're below-average in 5v5 xG generation after being bottom-third last season. They don't create enough.

i don't make sense? listen to yourself.

they are leading the leagues in goals scored more than 1/4 into the season. delete the san jose game and they are still leading the league in goals scored.

but they "don't create enough"?

next you'll be quoting pdo.