Speculation: Canucks Need to make a Trade

[BCNate]

Yeah, well if you don't want to split hairs, maybe don't say it'll be easy. It won't.

Fitting those players is not the worry, having a contender is. At least you've admitted the bold this time.

Yeah, the following year is nice....but I think you bridged Quinn, so now he needs a bumped deal, Brock's QO is $7.5m and JT and Bo are a year out from FA. Basically 22/23 to 23/24 is the cup window and it's going to be really tight with little ELC push coming.

Im ok taking the step back this season too, but then it doesn't make sense to be taking on over $10m in cap the next two seasons if you planned on a step back. I'm just mad we even have to take a step back. The crap I've complained about for 5 years is coming back to roost and I'm annoyned.

A properly managed team during what should've been a rebuild would be set to be plucking multiple Schmidt level assets from strapped teams, but we're strapped ourselves with no pick surplus and middle of the road prospect group.

OK , I'm out, you are now building assumptions on top of your assumptions. In two years time we will have our core in the prime all signed, the Cap freeze is likley over, and we are out from all of our bad deals. If you can't see that as a positive I think you are just here to complain.

 

[4Twenty]

OK , I'm out, you are now building assumptions on top of your assumptions. In two years time we will have our core in the prime all signed, the Cap freeze is likley over, and we are out from all of our bad deals. If you can't see that as a positive I think you are just here to complain.

Lol....your whole premise is an assumption that it's no big deal and easy.


You're assuming they'll have no other money spent.

I think I'm being realistic and planning for the worst case, and you're banking on it being easy and assuming the books still look clean in 2 years.

 

[Scintillating10]

Canucks have RFA's in Virtanen and Gaudette still need to be done.
Virtanen will get 2.5/3m+ in arb.
Gaudette is looking at 1.5m.
Looks like the Canucks are basically forced to make a trade, or use Buyout window #2 to get rid of Sutter.
Either or,
What is the next deal potentially going to be for the Canucks, Thoughts? Suggestions?

Talks have broken off between Habs and Gallagher. Could he come home?

 

[BCNate]

Lol....your whole premise is an assumption that it's no big deal and easy.


You're assuming they'll have no other money spent.

I think I'm being realistic and planning for the worst case, and you're banking on it being easy and assuming the books still look clean in 2 years.

I'll make it simple: in two years the bad money is gone, a quick glance at Cap Friendly should confirm that for you. The cost is then the cost of having quality assets and a good team in two years. Is that a challenge to manage, sure, but ultimately that is the goal. Having a tight cap because you have a bunch of good players in their prime is not an issue, it's called a competitive window.

 

[Peter Griffin]

Talks have broken off between Habs and Gallagher. Could he come home?

Not past this season unless the Canucks are moving Boeser and that seems like a lateral move at best. I think it's more likely that in 2 years we see Boeser moved out for either picks/prospects or a top 4 d-man if some of the younger forwards(Gaudette, Podkolzin, Hoglander) establish themselves as top 6 forwards.

 

[4Twenty]

I'll make it simple: in two years the bad money is gone, a quick glance at Cap Friendly should confirm that for you. The cost is then the cost of having quality assets and a good team in two years. Is that a challenge to manage, sure, but ultimately that is the goal. Having a tight cap because you have a bunch of good players in their prime is not an issue, it's called a competitive window.

Fair enough Nate.

Is the team in its "competitive window" now? When do you expect it to be? How long will it be open?

I'm assuming based on your posts here, they are not in the window currently, they're taking a step back, probably for this year and next and that in 22/23 they're entering their window?

Is that correct?

 

[4Twenty]

Not past this season unless the Canucks are moving Boeser and that seems like a lateral move at best. I think it's more likely that in 2 years we see Boeser moved out for either picks/prospects or a top 4 d-man if some of the younger forwards(Gaudette, Podkolzin, Hoglander) establish themselves as top 6 forwards.

Gaudette is older than Boeser.

 

[Peter Griffin]

Gaudette is older than Boeser.

Doesn't change my point. Change "younger" to unproven.

 

[BCNate]

Fair enough Nate.

Is the team in its "competitive window" now? When do you expect it to be? How long will it be open?

I'm assuming based on your posts here, they are not in the window currently, they're taking a step back, probably for this year and next and that in 22/23 they're entering their window?

Is that correct?

I feel we are a playoff team at this stage. I think goaltending we a worse in the short term, but better in a year or two. I feel we are better on D with Schmidt and Joulevi vs Stecher/Tanv. I hated watching or D as it was, bringing it back with term would have been awful. Forwards I feel we are the same as last year, maybe a little better if we punt LE to Utica and add some of our youth. We really only had Toffoli and Boeser in the lineup at the same time for a few games. To think we are competing for the 3rd spot or wildcards is fair for this year, not much more.

The following year we will likely make tweeks, but not significant adds.

After that, we will have some money to fill our needs and really take a run at it.

This why we did not see buyouts this year from JB, It's also why we let our 29-30 YO UFA's who wanted term to leave. 2 years down the road you have a potentially elite core with no dead weight, a potentially rising cap, and firm knowledge of what's needed to be a legit contender.

I get JB has put us behind the 8 ball with some past moves, that is the downfall of a rookie GM, but I think he has a solid plan and has executed it very well for the past 2 years.

 

[4Twenty]

I feel we are a playoff team at this stage. I think goaltending we a worse in the short term, but better in a year or two. I feel we are better on D with Schmidt and Joulevi vs Stecher/Tanv. I hated watching or D as it was, bringing it back with term would have been awful. Forwards I feel we are the same as last year, maybe a little better if we punt LE to Utica and add some of our youth. We really only had Toffoli and Boeser in the lineup at the same time for a few games. To think we are competing for the 3rd spot or wildcards is fair for this year, not much more.

The following year we will likely make tweeks, but not significant adds.

After that, we will have some money to fill our needs and really take a run at it.

This why we did not see buyouts this year from JB, It's also why we let our 29-30 YO UFA's who wanted term to leave. 2 years down the road you have a potentially elite core with no dead weight, a potentially rising cap, and firm knowledge of what's needed to be a legit contender.

I get JB has put us behind the 8 ball with some past moves, that is the downfall of a rookie GM, but I think he has a solid plan and has executed it very well for the past 2 years.

Fair enough.

I disagree about your last bit. He signed Benn and Myers last year, signed Baertschi, Beagle, Roussell the year before that.

I don't see the plan.

Hopefully you're right.

 

[Strangelove]

Carolina got a 1st for paying $3.815m in real dollars to Marleau. And that was pre-covid shutdown whereas many teams are tightening their belts this season. I suspect it would take more then a 2nd to dump Baertschi.

Didn't it cost $4.67M to buyout Marleau?

Carolina Hurricanes buy out Patrick Marleau five days after trade.

Whatevs, I don't like this comparison because the Canes HAD to buyout Marleau

... whereas a team trading for Baer receives a year of service from him (mediocre-at-best #6/7 forward?).

Sven is only due $2.4M in real dollars in this, the last season on his contract.

 

[4Twenty]

Didn't it cost $4.67M to buyout Marleau?

Carolina Hurricanes buy out Patrick Marleau five days after trade.

Whatevs, I don't like this comparison because the Canes HAD to buyout Marleau

... whereas a team trading for Baer receives a year of service from him (mediocre-at-best #6/7 forward?).

Sven is only due $2.4M in real dollars in this, the last season on his contract.

It cost a 1st and Carolina tried to convince Marleau to play. The Canes did not HAVE to buyout Marleau.

Baertschi is not a 6/7 forward...he's an AHLer. Just imagine he's a $3.4m cap hit, $2.4m desk chair. He will not play. Good players can be had for $2.4m.....so it'll cost assets.

If Vancouver is paying to get rid of anyone, it should be the multi-year deal (Myers, Beagle, or Roussell).

 

[RationalExpectations]

Just remember that as of now only one team is below the cap floor, and they're owned by a notorious cheapskate.

Yes but for example Baertschi is a reclamation project basically and if you re OTT or DET, why not get a 2nd for free + a guy you can move up and down the lineup while hoping he gets back to what VAN hoped he would be ?

 

[Strangelove]

It cost a 1st and Carolina tried to convince Marleau to play. The Canes did not HAVE to buyout Marleau.

The cost of the trade was based on Canes buying him out.

(if by some miracle they could have convinced him to play it would have been a huge bonus)

Marleau was on record saying he would only play for the Leafs or Sharks for family reasons.

Baertschi is not a 6/7 forward...he's an AHLer. Just imagine he's a $3.4m cap hit, $2.4m desk chair. He will not play. Good players can be had for $2.4m.....so it'll cost assets.

I never said it wouldn't cost assets.

I said the comparison to the Marleau trade wasn't a good one.

Just imagine a $6.25m cap hit, $4.67m empty chair.

Just because Sven spent last season in the AHL doesn't mean he couldn't be a 6/7 forward on a rebuilding team

He has spent years in that very role in the NHL and just turned 28 last week.

If Vancouver is paying to get rid of anyone, it should be the multi-year deal (Myers, Beagle, or Roussell).

Disagree about Myers, Canucks need him for a few more years.

Eriksson, Beagle, and Roussel though yes, because of the overlap with the next Pete/Hughes contracts.

 

[mouser]

If a team trades for a player still in arbitration, does the team acquiring the player receive the 2nd buyout window?

Yes

 

[4Twenty]

The cost of the trade was based on Canes buying him out.

(if by some miracle they could have convinced him to play it would have been a huge bonus)

Marleau was on record saying he would only play for the Leafs or Sharks for family reasons.




I never said it wouldn't cost assets.

I said the comparison to the Marleau trade wasn't a good one.

Just imagine a $6.25m cap hit, $4.67m empty chair.

Just because Sven spent last season in the AHL doesn't mean he couldn't be a 6/7 forward on a rebuilding team

He has spent years in that very role in the NHL and just turned 28 last week.




Disagree about Myers, Canucks need him for a few more years.

Eriksson, Beagle, and Roussel though yes, because of the overlap with the next Pete/Hughes contracts.

Myers' deal is probably the one that hurts the most. But I understand that people like him more than I do.

 

[Johnsie19]

Myers' deal is probably the one that hurts the most. But I understand that people like him more than I do.

They shouldn't. He is just not value for more than prob 3.5 mil and who know how far he'll fall off that as he ages.

 

[Johnsie19]

Sutter at %50 retained should be worth "future considerations" or a 7th you'd think
I don't want to move Roussel out if at all possible nor do I want to move picks or prospects to move salary. We can likely get under the cap with a partially retained salary trade though.

 

[sting101]

Boeser for Gallagher + 2nd.

WTF go away Habs fan

We'll just sign him for free next summer thx

 

[4Twenty]

They shouldn't. He is just not value for more than prob 3.5 mil and who know how far he'll fall off that as he ages.

Just go watch the first 5 games of the restart. He took 10 minor penalties in 5 games. That's only going to get worse with father time.

 

[sting101]

Why would you trade Virtanen. He's gonna get 2.6 to 3 million and should put up 40pts ?

i thought people wanted value contract around here.

Man this place is neurotic

 

[4Twenty]

WTF go away Habs fan

We'll just sign him for free next summer thx

With what cap space?

 

[sting101]

With what cap space?

probably right.

i put a call into Tonya Harding's friends and left them Erikssons address.....we'll see what happens

 

[sewellda]

Spooners mill comes off the books too

 

[joelCAMEL]

Just go watch the first 5 games of the restart. He took 10 minor penalties in 5 games. That's only going to get worse with father time.

And then took 2 minor penalties in the next 5 games. I think he was trying to be aggressive against st. louis and was still hurting against vegas. Certainly, he did not play this aggressively during the regular season. I do not recall noticing whether the minors were called because he lost his man either.