Confirmed with Link: Canucks Hire Yeo and Cull as Assistant Coaches, Colliton as new HC in Abbotsford, Shaw Gone

[Vector]

What are these Brad Shaw comments y'all are talking about?

From this interview with Patrick Johnston.

"“I took a job initially I thought I would love but I felt lost. With the coaching change I felt like I had a chance, more functional. I thank Jimmy Rutherford and Patrik Allvin because it gave me a chance to work again,” he told Postmedia from his cottage on Mississippi Lake in Ontario."

 

[krutovsdonut]

Patrick Johnston has some pretty interesting comments from Brad Shaw:


Canucks coaching staff turns over again

"I felt lost": that's pretty extreme. I've never heard such a thing from an outgoing member of a coaching staff. Who's to blame for Shaw having been hired and then given no clear role?

odd for him to say that like he was surprised when that was clearly the gig. he was publicly hired as an associate not assistant coach and without portfolio. there was a lot of justifiable discussion and speculation about it at the time that he was a coach in waiting and/or green's baby sitter/tutor. anyone taking that job should have expected a big risk of being frozen out unless they had no social iq.

i do think it has been a tough year for shaw though. first he gets turfed from columbus with torts without a shot at the hc gig. then it sounds like he was frozen out by green, then green gets fired but he does not get the interim head coach job he was in theory perfectly placed to get. then he works with bb as a regular assistant coach and thinks he does well, but bb barely gets rehired despite a great record and shaw is shown the door.

that is a lot of rejection. i feel for the guy. my guess is shaw is a good hockey mind but lacking social skills. maybe that is the reason he worked for torts.

the other thing going on here with these hires is that bb seems to have no control over his own coaching staff. apart from them being his potential replacements, these new guys are not his guys that i can see and have no connection or history with him. pretty clearly bb is not part of the longterm plan here and management is putting their own people in place in a way really not much different from when benning hired shaw.

 

[Lindgren]

odd for him to say that like he was surprised when that was clearly the gig. he was publicly hired as an associate not assistant coach and without portfolio. there was a lot of justifiable discussion and speculation about it at the time that he was a coach in waiting and/or green's baby sitter/tutor. anyone taking that job should have expected a big risk of being frozen out unless they had no social iq.

i do think it has been a tough year for shaw though. first he gets turfed from columbus with torts without a shot at the hc gig. then it sounds like he was frozen out by green, then green gets fired but he does not get the interim head coach job he was in theory perfectly placed to get. then he works with bb as a regular assistant coach and thinks he does well, but bb barely gets rehired despite a great record and shaw is shown the door.

that is a lot of rejection. i feel for the guy. my guess is shaw is a good hockey mind but lacking social skills. maybe that is the reason he worked for torts.

the other thing going on here with these hires is that bb seems to have no control over his own coaching staff. apart from them being his potential replacements, these new guys are not his guys that i can see and have no connection or history with him. pretty clearly bb is not part of the longterm plan here and management is putting their own people in place in a way really not much different from when benning hired shaw.

The Johnson piece convinced me that Boudreau was good with the Yeo hiring, and that they know each other pretty well.

 

[timw33]

I know it's been discussed in the past, but there seems to be a trend of young first time NHL coaches who get in a little over their heads, get fired, but then learn from their shortcomings, refine their style/methods, and have a much more successful 2nd attempt as head coach.

I see this as a potential outcome for Colliton. He's kinda the perfect resume and age to take over our farm team and be groomed as backfill for 2-3 years down the road if he's able to develop some guys in Abbotsford.

 

[Burke's Evil Spirit]

I like Colliton over Cull in Abby. Yeo has plenty of experience including head coaching experience so that's valuable to have. Cull for Shaw seems like a downgrade to me. Shaw is a long time NHL assistant coach with NHL headcoaching experience. Cull is a long time AHL assistant coach with AHL headacoaching experience.

I mean, it sounds like Yeo will be the Shaw replacement, and Cull will be the Baumgartner/Walker replacement.

 

[strattonius]

odd for him to say that like he was surprised when that was clearly the gig. he was publicly hired as an associate not assistant coach and without portfolio. there was a lot of justifiable discussion and speculation about it at the time that he was a coach in waiting and/or green's baby sitter/tutor. anyone taking that job should have expected a big risk of being frozen out unless they had no social iq.

i do think it has been a tough year for shaw though. first he gets turfed from columbus with torts without a shot at the hc gig. then it sounds like he was frozen out by green, then green gets fired but he does not get the interim head coach job he was in theory perfectly placed to get. then he works with bb as a regular assistant coach and thinks he does well, but bb barely gets rehired despite a great record and shaw is shown the door.

that is a lot of rejection. i feel for the guy. my guess is shaw is a good hockey mind but lacking social skills. maybe that is the reason he worked for torts.

the other thing going on here with these hires is that bb seems to have no control over his own coaching staff. apart from them being his potential replacements, these new guys are not his guys that i can see and have no connection or history with him. pretty clearly bb is not part of the longterm plan here and management is putting their own people in place in a way really not much different from when benning hired shaw.

It's clear from the messaging that with Benning and Weisbrod there was zero autonomy or direction, hence feeling lost. How exactly is that the 'gig' he signed up for? An incompetent management structure and head coach.

I'm not bummed out we lost Shaw here but it's just clear as day the problem wasn't him. How you come to the conclusion he's lacking social skills because he was never given direction is just lol worthy nonsense.

 

[Burke's Evil Spirit]

I know it's been discussed in the past, but there seems to be a trend of young first time NHL coaches who get in a little over their heads, get fired, but then learn from their shortcomings, refine their style/methods, and have a much more successful 2nd attempt as head coach.

I see this as a potential outcome for Colliton. He's kinda the perfect resume and age to take over our farm team and be groomed as backfill for 2-3 years down the road if he's able to develop some guys in Abbotsford.

Agreed, but let's be clear: Colliton was an absolutely *awful* coach in Chicago. In a league where most coaches are at least replacement level, Colliton was a major drag on that roster's performance, particularly defensively.

I'll be super nervous if he's ever named Canucks coach, and will be watching defensive play/metrics like a hawk from day 1.

 

[strattonius]

Agreed, but let's be clear: Colliton was an absolutely *awful* coach in Chicago. In a league where most coaches are at least replacement level, Colliton was a major drag on that roster's performance, particularly defensively.

I'll be super nervous if he's never named Canucks coach, and will be watching defensive play/metrics like a hawk from day 1.

I don't think he was awful I think the Hawks roster is awful. He was thrown in to a veteran room to re-ignite a fire with youthful exuberance...or something like that. It just wasn't the right coach for the right time I don't think his stint in Chicago reflects poorly on Colliton.

 

[CherryToke]

I prefer experienced dirty underwear coaches over nooby morons like Green, WD and Bumgartner

 

[Vector]

I get the sense that Colliton is the eventual replacement. Highly thought of that has a history of working well with Swedish front offices. Was put into a bad situation with the Blackhawks and now takes that experience to the minor leagues. Cull moved up as a "thank you" for his work during the insanity of previous management and COVID. Yeo brought on as head coach insurance in-case Boudreau is let go during the season.

Now that could all fall apart rapidly but there seems to be a fairly clear succession plan in place.

 

[Tomatoes11]

I think Colliton did fine, the trap was working a bit at first. I watched them closely because I drafted MAF in my hockey pool. The trap eventually worked well enough for MAF to have an okay season on a crap team.

So I would give him a pass considering. Plus he got a lot more out of Hagel than Cooper did. Got him playing really well and got a haul for him. Lol

 

[krutovsdonut]

It's clear from the messaging that with Benning and Weisbrod there was zero autonomy or direction, hence feeling lost. How exactly is that the 'gig' he signed up for? An incompetent management structure and head coach.

I'm not bummed out we lost Shaw here but it's just clear as day the problem wasn't him. How you come to the conclusion he's lacking social skills because he was never given direction is just lol worthy nonsense.

i am sorry that you don't understand.

the problem with green was not shaw, but shaw is the guy who took the unusual senior associate coaching job with no clear job description that was likely to threaten the head coach. shaw was the guy who should have been able to see he was obviously not green's hire so being frozen out by green was an obvious risk. he was the guy who should have been able to figure out by talking to green what the deal was before he ever took the job, and he was the guy who should have been prepared to use some social skills and experience to smooth the waters to make it work if he took the job.

instead, he apparently got frozen out and now he acts surprised that happened.

 

[MS]

i am sorry that you don't understand.

the problem with green was not shaw, but shaw is the guy who took the unusual senior associate coaching job with no clear job description that was likely to threaten the head coach. shaw was the guy who should have been able to see he was obviously not green's hire so being frozen out by green was an obvious risk. he was the guy who should have been able to figure out by talking to green what the deal was before he ever took the job, and he was the guy who should have been prepared to use some social skills and experience to smooth the waters to make it work if he took the job.

instead, he apparently got frozen out and now he acts surprised that happened.

Blaming the employee because the GM is a disorganized moron and the head coach is a petty asshole is definitely a take.

Travis Green was the head coach. It's his job to make sure his coaching staff is cohesive and on the same page. Full stop. If you don't like how a guy was hired, tough shit. Do your job and use the resources at your disposal.

You have no idea whether Shaw reached out to Green or not.

 

[strattonius]

i am sorry that you don't understand.

the problem with green was not shaw, but shaw is the guy who took the unusual senior associate coaching job with no clear job description that was likely to threaten the head coach. shaw was the guy who should have been able to see he was obviously not green's hire so being frozen out by green was an obvious risk. he was the guy who should have been able to figure out by talking to green what the deal was before he ever took the job, and he was the guy who should have been prepared to use some social skills and experience to smooth the waters to make it work if he took the job.

instead, he apparently got frozen out and now he acts surprised that happened.

A weirdly political look.

I dont think it's that convoluted. He took an assistant coaching gig and it wasn't what he expected.

'I'm sorry you don't understand'. Don't be so condescending. Your opinion on what happened with Shaw is ambiguous.

 

[DonnyNucker]

odd for him to say that like he was surprised when that was clearly the gig. he was publicly hired as an associate not assistant coach and without portfolio. there was a lot of justifiable discussion and speculation about it at the time that he was a coach in waiting and/or green's baby sitter/tutor. anyone taking that job should have expected a big risk of being frozen out unless they had no social iq.

i do think it has been a tough year for shaw though. first he gets turfed from columbus with torts without a shot at the hc gig. then it sounds like he was frozen out by green, then green gets fired but he does not get the interim head coach job he was in theory perfectly placed to get. then he works with bb as a regular assistant coach and thinks he does well, but bb barely gets rehired despite a great record and shaw is shown the door.

that is a lot of rejection. i feel for the guy. my guess is shaw is a good hockey mind but lacking social skills. maybe that is the reason he worked for torts.

the other thing going on here with these hires is that bb seems to have no control over his own coaching staff. apart from them being his potential replacements, these new guys are not his guys that i can see and have no connection or history with him. pretty clearly bb is not part of the longterm plan here and management is putting their own people in place in a way really not much different from when benning hired shaw.

This isn’t correct. The Canucks wanted to keep Shaw but he left for a promotion in Philly

 

[krutovsdonut]

Blaming the employee because the GM is a disorganized moron and the head coach is a petty asshole is definitely a take.

Travis Green was the head coach. It's his job to make sure his coaching staff is cohesive and on the same page. Full stop. If you don't like how a guy was hired, tough shit. Do your job and use the resources at your disposal.

You have no idea whether Shaw reached out to Green or not.

and you have no idea what happened last year apparently.

we know green and shaw talked before the hire because they talked about it to the media at the time of the hire. it was reported as part of the pr rollout of the hire to show shaw was welcomed by green. this was done because everybody understood the optics of the hire would raise eyebrows. they even suggested it was travis green's idea to hire him. i recall it because i thought it was bullshit.

now shaw is complaining he had no role. well that's on him too. he walked into an obvious potential political jackpot and either did not read the room or failed to take precautions or both. he failed to read and navigate a situation he voluntarily stepped into and he failed to thrive and get the real gig. they ended up hiring bourdreau to coach half a lost season when brad shaw was standing right there under contract itching for the chance.

so yes i am holding shaw accountable along with the gm and the coach. the guy wants to be a head coach after all. he's not just an "employee". he has repeatedly interviewed for head coach jobs. he obviously wants to play in the big leagues. my view would be that reading and managing political situations among player, management and staff would normally be a key part of that job.

unless you are a different drummer guy like torts, of course. hence my read on why shaw is back with torts.

 

[MS]

and you have no idea what happened last year apparently.

we know green and shaw talked before the hire because they talked about it to the media at the time of the hire. it was reported as part of the pr rollout of the hire to show shaw was welcomed by green. this was done because everybody understood the optics of the hire would raise eyebrows. they even suggested it was travis green's idea to hire him. i recall it because i thought it was bullshit.

now shaw is complaining he had no role. well that's on him too. he walked into an obvious potential political jackpot and either did not read the room or failed to take precautions or both. he failed to read and navigate a situation he voluntarily stepped into and he failed to thrive and get the real gig. they ended up hiring bourdreau to coach half a lost season when brad shaw was standing right there under contract itching for the chance.

so yes i am holding shaw accountable along with the gm and the coach. the guy wants to be a head coach after all. he's not just an "employee". he has repeatedly interviewed for head coach jobs. he obviously wants to play in the big leagues. my view would be that reading and managing political situations among player, management and staff would normally be a key part of that job.

unless you are a different drummer guy like torts, of course. hence my read on why shaw is back with torts.

What an absolutely bizarre take.

As you say, it appears that he was a management hire ... but that Green met with him and signed off on things and Shaw would have assumed that everything was a-OK.

It's not the underling's job to create a positive work environment. It's not the underling's job to put himself in a position to succeed. If you are hired by anyone for pretty much any job, you are expecting that you are wanted in your role and are going to be giving tasks and responsibilities for you to execute.

Travis Green was the HEAD f***ing coach. He's the guy in charge. It's his responsibility to make his coaching staff work. It's his responsibility to make sure everyone works well together.

When an actual NHL head coach in Bruce Boudreau arrived here instead of the shit-terrible pouty baby Travis Green, Shaw had zero problems integrating into a competent coaching staff. And would have been brought back if Philly didn't offer him a promotion.

 

[krutovsdonut]

This isn’t correct. The Canucks wanted to keep Shaw but he left for a promotion in Philly

i will agree that i cannot show that shaw was edged out here, although i think you can apply a skeptical eye to the idea it is a "promotion" and wonder why the canucks let him jump laterally if they wanted to keep him. he tried to get a head coach gig, then jumped to go work under torts again in basically the same kind of role he was hired to do here.

it is just my inference that he was encouraged to explore his options elsewhere. it is also possible we let him go as a favour.

 

[DonnyNucker]

i will agree that i cannot show that shaw was edged out here, although i think you can apply a skeptical eye to the idea it is a "promotion" and wonder why the canucks let him jump laterally if they wanted to keep him. he tried to get a head coach gig, then jumped to go work under torts again in basically the same kind of role he was hired to do here.

it is just my inference that he was encouraged to explore his options elsewhere. it is also possible we let him go as a favour.

I wasn’t sure but read it over at the athletic. They said Canucks wanted to keep Shaw but he was offered a legit promotion so they didn’t stand in his way. Paraphrasing

 

[krutovsdonut]

What an absolutely bizarre take.

As you say, it appears that he was a management hire ... but that Green met with him and signed off on things and Shaw would have assumed that everything was a-OK.

It's not the underling's job to create a positive work environment. It's not the underling's job to put himself in a position to succeed. If you are hired by anyone for pretty much any job, you are expecting that you are wanted in your role and are going to be giving tasks and responsibilities for you to execute.

Travis Green was the HEAD f***ing coach. He's the guy in charge. It's his responsibility to make his coaching staff work. It's his responsibility to make sure everyone works well together.

When an actual NHL head coach in Bruce Boudreau arrived here instead of the shit-terrible pouty baby Travis Green, Shaw had zero problems integrating into a competent coaching staff. And would have been brought back if Philly didn't offer him a promotion.

well let's be clear first of all. i say shaw was a management hire as a green tutor/replacement coach in waiting. but it's my inference. the official word at the time was it was all green's idea and choice after long heart felt conversations with brad. read and remember.

Canucks: Travis Green picks veteran coach Brad Shaw for critical role

'I’ve been told I’m too detailed ... I’ve gotten better and learned simplicity is a real important aspect ... ' — Canucks assistant Shaw

theprovince.com

i called that story bullshit at the time. and i am calling the official line that this is a promotion now also bullshit. another inference.

to respond to your other point, calling shaw an underling is silly and kind of making my point for me. shaw is not a fresh hire out of school rube in an entry level job. he's a 58 year old senior veteran assistant/associate coach with options who has repeatedly been interviewed for a head coach job. saying he is not to be held responsible for failing to be proactive to clarify and manage his delicate and ambiguous role within an organization as part of a job negotiation and afterwards simply because he is an employee, is only looking at his strict job description. it is not assessing his life skills.

 

[MS]

well let's be clear first of all. i say shaw was a management hire as a green tutor/replacement coach in waiting. but it's my inference. the official word at the time was it was all green's idea and choice after long heart felt conversations with brad. read and remember.

Canucks: Travis Green picks veteran coach Brad Shaw for critical role

'I’ve been told I’m too detailed ... I’ve gotten better and learned simplicity is a real important aspect ... ' — Canucks assistant Shaw

theprovince.com

i called that story bullshit at the time. and i am calling the official line that this is a promotion now also bullshit. another inference.

to respond to your other point, calling shaw an underling is silly and kind of making my point for me. shaw is not a fresh hire out of school rube in an entry level job. he's a 58 year old senior veteran assistant/associate coach with options who has repeatedly been interviewed for a head coach job. saying he is not to be held responsible for failing to be proactive to clarify and manage his delicate and ambiguous role within an organization as part of a job negotiation and afterwards simply because he is an employee, is only looking at his strict job description. it is not assessing his life skills.

Again, bizarre take.

Shaw has worked for a long time in the NHL as an assistant coach under some of the top coaches in the game - Hitchcock, Tortorella, Boudreau. He has an excellent reputation and is clearly able to sort out his position in a quality coaching staff and do his job.

Travis Green is one of the most incompetent coaches I've ever seen. And after watching him operate for close to a decade (plus remembering the Toronto part of his NHL career in particular) my impression is also that he's an asshole and kind of a shitty human being.

I know who I'm giving the benefit of the doubt to in this case.

And yes. Again. Travis Green is the head coach. It's his responsibility to communicate to the people under him, make them feel comfortable, give them clear direction, and put them in positions to succeed.

You're taking a situation where Green was apparently pissy about an outsider being added to his coaching staff and then marginalized him and wasted his employer's money and resources ... and blaming the guy who was a victim of his boss' incompetence.

 

[joelCAMEL]

If Shaw was a management hire, then Green would have no choice but to sign off on him publicly. Green certainly would not have resigned in protest.

“We’ve (Baumgartner and Green) been together for four years and sometimes a different point of view and different set of eyes is helpful. That was a big part of it and I really enjoy talking to people who have a mind for the game. And as a coach, you want to be challenged and broaden your mind and ideas. He’s a new voice for me and somebody I can lean on and he’ll have some good words for Baumer.”

Shaw knew on day 1 that he would have no specific role and Green ensured he would have no role. He was filling the position of hostile advisor to the coach and potential interim coach, if Green was fired.

Maybe Green was wasting his employer's money and resources, but that is to be expected if Shaw was forced onto Green. There is no difference between that and the GM obtaining players that the coach will not play.

As the head coach, his responsibility is to win games and use the available tools the best way he can. It appears that Shaw was not a resource that Green trusted.

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

Again, bizarre take.

Shaw has worked for a long time in the NHL as an assistant coach under some of the top coaches in the game - Hitchcock, Tortorella, Boudreau. He has an excellent reputation and is clearly able to sort out his position in a quality coaching staff and do his job.

Travis Green is one of the most incompetent coaches I've ever seen. And after watching him operate for close to a decade (plus remembering the Toronto part of his NHL career in particular) my impression is also that he's an asshole and kind of a shitty human being.

I know who I'm giving the benefit of the doubt to in this case.

And yes. Again. Travis Green is the head coach. It's his responsibility to communicate to the people under him, make them feel comfortable, give them clear direction, and put them in positions to succeed.

You're taking a situation where Green was apparently pissy about an outsider being added to his coaching staff and then marginalized him and wasted his employer's money and resources ... and blaming the guy who was a victim of his boss' incompetence.

Name a more iconic duo, krutovsdonut and bizarre takes.

 

[VanJack]

Don't really know if it means anything, but you never hear either Benning or Green's names coming up with any of the coaching/GM vacancies around the NHL.

And we had to listen for years, all the in-house media cheerleaders in Vancouver predicting that Green would be in huge demand if the Canucks ever parted with him. Then again, maybe not.

 

[me2]

It's clear from the messaging that with Benning and Weisbrod there was zero autonomy or direction, hence feeling lost. How exactly is that the 'gig' he signed up for? An incompetent management structure and head coach.

I'm not bummed out we lost Shaw here but it's just clear as day the problem wasn't him. How you come to the conclusion he's lacking social skills because he was never given direction is just lol worthy nonsense.

You might argue the opposite. The people without social IQ failed to explain his job properly and failed to integrate him, failed to recognise or care about his issues.